[Cause]

I think I have brought up the issue before but if were going to discuss every effect of colonialism. Looking at South Africa its a modern nation. Its population is over 40 million. Without colonialism the zulus would still be killing the xhosa with spears. You could make the argument that knowledge could have been given to them peacefuly but what ifs wont get us anywhere.

Im a proponent that their comes a time when you need to realise the past cant be changed. The present is as it is and move forward.

Ill also mention that the triangular trade was in part possible because rival black tribes, kingdoms, peoples kidnaped and sold eachother.

[Eddie Dean]

"Kramer" is just trying to justify his racism. I do agree with some of what he says, but there is no doubt that he has prejudice against minorities. Having pride in your own race isn't bashing other.

I was roomates with a black dude in college. I called him "my nigger" and he called me "cracker" etc. etc. That does not give me the right to say that to a stranger. I could ask a close white friend how his sex life is, but if I asked a white stranger that, they would get offended. Friendship creasted a trust that makes it okay to talk this way.

As for all the "black quotas" for jobs: I agree that safeguards are neccessary to prevent racism and prejudice from appearing in the work place, but if "equality" is what we are after, the best person should get the job regardless of race or sex. Unfortunatly, we are not in a position to have this yet, so those safeguards are required. Sure it sucks for the white guy who looses a job, but its better than the alternative.

[stone monkey]

Cause, on Apr 3 2009, 11:06 PM, said:

Ill also mention that the triangular trade was in part possible because rival black tribes, kingdoms, peoples kidnaped and sold each other.

In which case I'll have to mention that at least one African king was deposed by the Colonials (and, ironically enough, made a slave) and replaced with a more "agreeable" monarch simply because he refused to sell other people into slavery. No sane person would suggest that the African kingdoms of the time weren't complicit in the trade. But the trade only existed because someone was buying...

[Mentalist]

Eddie Dean, on Apr 3 2009, 06:33 PM, said:

"Kramer" is just trying to justify his racism. I do agree with some of what he says, but there is no doubt that he has prejudice against minorities. Having pride in your own race isn't bashing other.

I was roomates with a black dude in college. I called him "my nigger" and he called me "cracker" etc. etc. That does not give me the right to say that to a stranger. I could ask a close white friend how his sex life is, but if I asked a white stranger that, they would get offended. Friendship creasted a trust that makes it okay to talk this way.

As for all the "black quotas" for jobs: I agree that safeguards are neccessary to prevent racism and prejudice from appearing in the work place, but if "equality" is what we are after, the best person should get the job regardless of race or sex. Unfortunatly, we are not in a position to have this yet, so those safeguards are required. Sure it sucks for the white guy who looses a job, but its better than the alternative.

I love this utilitarian approach in a nation that's supposed to all about liberty. equality and personal freedom.

not a shot at you personally, ED, but this kind of attitude just strikes me as.... hyppocritical?

[Shinrei]

I've been internetless for several days, so I missed the forming of this thread. Therefore, my comments are going to be sort of general due to the many turns this topic has taken.

Despite being a white male, I am now a minority because I live in Japan. There is discrimination in Japan against non-japanese. It's not something you run into often, but it does exist. Some apartments will not rent to non-japanese for example.

However, I believe I am more likely to run into the claims of discrimination by foreigners than actual discriination. I often hear other foreigners complain about various personal experiences, and their conclusions often run along the lines of racism or xenophobia. However, most of the time my personal interpretation of their story is that they are trying very hard to deliberately paint things with a discrimination brush (often to cover for their own failings in the situation).

This MUST also happen in the US, UK etc. Perceived discrimination due to oversensitivity. Maybe white males hold more cards, but I often think that minorities hold more cards than they BELIEVE they do.

[Mezla PigDog]

In reference to the opening post. I was just looking online to see what happened in court to prompt Michael Richards to give this "speech" because I think parts of it are inflammatory (particularly the "you rob us, carjack us" etc etc) and parts of it are stupid (it is obvious why there are black colleges in the US) so he must be an idiot to dig a further hole for himself. I was wondering what laws he had broken, with the whole freedom of speech countered by provoking racial hatred minefield.

It turns out there were no charges filed against him and therefore no court case and therefore he didn't write this "speech". It is a viral internet thing that has been propogated by "white power" websites. Which puts my opinion of it nicely into context.

With reference to use of the word "nigger" and being politically correct around different races. I really don't think it is that difficult. Just don't use the words. Its not hard.

[Cause]

Why should their be black only colleges?

[Mezla PigDog]

Cause, on Apr 4 2009, 12:17 PM, said:

Why should their be black only colleges?

Because the African American community is significantly under-represented in the American university system. Therefore scholarships and colleges only for black kids are a good thing to support them through the system. Education is universally seen as the best route out of poverty so these things are more effective than positive discrimination hiring policies.

There is a similar thing in my profession where certain money is put aside to only be given as research funding for women coming back from career breaks after having children.

I don't see how it can be viewed as a bad thing.

[Gothos]

Mezla PigDog, on Apr 4 2009, 11:34 AM, said:

the African American community is significantly under-represented in the American university system.

why?

[Catherine]

I was told I was racist because I wasn't attracted to Arab men, hell there are a whole lot of white guys I am not attracted too!!! Does who I find attractive have any basis, even though I treat people regardless of ethnic background the same? What do you think?

[Aptorian]

Now you're just trolling Gothos. Stretch your imagination and you might be able to come up with several plausible explanations yourself.

EDIT:

Catherine, on Apr 4 2009, 01:53 PM, said:

I was told I was racist because I wasn't attracted to Arab men, hell there are a whole lot of white guys I am not attracted too!!! Does who I find attractive have any basis, even though I treat people regardless of ethnic background the same? What do you think?

It's racist if you're not attracted by arabic men because you have negative opinions of them as a race and culture, if you're just not attracted to their physical look and society it's a different thing.

I suspect that people are attracted to foreign people who look similar to their own people.

For example I am attracted to black women like Hale Barry, Tyra Banks, etc. But if you examine them, their looks are closer to caucasion facial structures and body types. I've certainly noticed different african female "types" who have more pronounced "african" looks that I don't find attractive. Africa is big continent, people come in all shapes and sizes down there.

I can say the same thing about eskimoes, slavic people, south americans, etc.

[Bent]

Mezla PigDog, on Apr 4 2009, 07:34 AM, said:

Cause, on Apr 4 2009, 12:17 PM, said:

Why should their be black only colleges?

Because the African American community is significantly under-represented in the American university system. Therefore scholarships and colleges only for black kids are a good thing to support them through the system. Education is universally seen as the best route out of poverty so these things are more effective than positive discrimination hiring policies.

There is a similar thing in my profession where certain money is put aside to only be given as research funding for women coming back from career breaks after having children.

I don't see how it can be viewed as a bad thing.

It can be viewed as a bad thing because it breeds more prejudices. Especially since segregation is supposed to be un-constitutional. Look, the only way to kill racism is to get the gov't out of it. Get the politicians out of the picture, and let people just be. It may take a while, but one thing is for certain, with the amount of contact and education we have and continue to recieve, eventually racism will cease. The black people will stop thinking anything unfair that happens to them is rascist and the white people will stop being so nervous about everything they do or say to a black man. Its really early here so tht may not sound right, point is this. Its the segregation caused by the rich and greedy, that keeps rascism alive today, be they black (Sharpton or Jackson) or white (Clintons or Al Gore), these people need the hate kept alive so they can make money trying to "fix" the problems.


~And we can now all (blacks and whites) go back to hating the muslims. (Thats a joke, see.... geez, no one can even laugh when talking about this.)

[Gothos]

Aptorian, on Apr 4 2009, 11:53 AM, said:

Now you're just trolling Gothos. Stretch your imagination and you might be able to come up with several plausible explanations yourself.

as far as stating the obvious might seem unneccesary, I would actually want to know why do you think they are, how severe it is - a place for numbers, and how do you propose it's supposed to be countered without making it unfair the other way around...

[Tsundoku]

Aptorian, on Apr 4 2009, 09:53 PM, said:

Now you're just trolling Gothos. Stretch your imagination and you might be able to come up with several plausible explanations yourself.

Maybe he is and maybe he isn't. Regardless, there isn't sufficient information in his post to confirm either way.

Does this mean YOU are guilty of having expectations of Gothypoos based on previous experiences, and not viewing this as an individual case?

I believe that's called "profiling".

OMG APT IS AN INTERWEBZIST!!!

Or would that be a case of ME profiling??? Ah, brain hurtz.

If african-americans are under-represented in the USAnian college system, it's because either:
1. they cannot afford it
2. they do not meet the scholastic requirements to gain entry. (here I deliberately exclude references to anything extracurricular as irrelevant to the current discussion) Also, not meeting the scholastic requirements obviously means they cannot gain a scholarship.

But they CAN gain entry to a black college? How? They're either too dumb, or too poor?

The above point also goes for other ethnicities, but since they don't have a lovely cocoon of self-segregation, I'm sticking with the current scenario.

Cheers,

La Sombra, knows everyone in the world is a racist in their heart of hearts, but that's ok because it's what you DO and not what you THINK that counts.

PS - by "racist" I mean if you have ever, EVER had a discriminatory or unkind thought about another individual or group based purely on their racial demographic. Even only 1 counts.

[Aptorian]

Most colleges/universities would have programs that let poor students who get good grades have a chance of getting a degree. This program helps any race be they white, black asian, latino, etc.

But some african american studenst come from a whole different community and have different needs outside financial help. The black colleges, allthough I personally don't like the idea (but I'm not an American anyway), help to create and environment that caters to the special needs of some black students. They come from places that have no acedemic basis, with families and friends who have videly different background that can't really support a black student. Mean while there is a historical need for these colleges because in the old days black people couldn't get into colleges and universities and if they did they faces an opposition both within the faculty and the student group.

I wonder though, and maybe someone from the US can tell me, but I suspect there might also be a negative result of having all black colleges because it can cultivate a negative view on "white america" among the black students. An "Us against Them" mentality that only furthers the cultural gaps.

[Gothos]

Sombra, on Apr 4 2009, 12:06 PM, said:

Maybe he is and maybe he isn't. Regardless, there isn't sufficient information in his post to confirm either way.

Does this mean YOU are guilty of having expectations of Gothypoos based on previous experiences, and not viewing this as an individual case?

I believe that's called "profiling".

I'm kinda used to it, people always assume the worst

Quote

If african-americans are under-represented in the USAnian college system, it's because either:
1. they cannot afford it
2. they do not meet the scholastic requirements to gain entry. (here I deliberately exclude references to anything extracurricular as irrelevant to the current discussion) Also, not meeting the scholastic requirements obviously means they cannot gain a scholarship.

But they CAN gain entry to a black college? How? They're either too dumb, or too poor?

The above point also goes for other ethnicities, but since they don't have a lovely cocoon of self-segregation, I'm sticking with the current scenario.

so counting only these two, it's just an argument of an underrepresentation of "the poor", rather than ethnicality. so there must be something else, however, is there a window for a racist dean to just deny someone's entry just b/c they don't like them based on their ethnic background?

Quote

Cheers,

La Sombra, knows everyone in the world is a racist in their heart of hearts, but that's ok because it's what you DO and not what you THINK that counts.

PS - by "racist" I mean if you have ever, EVER had a discriminatory or unkind thought about another individual or group based purely on their racial demographic. Even only 1 counts.

does my own ethnic group count?

[Aptorian]

Sombra, on Apr 4 2009, 02:06 PM, said:

Aptorian, on Apr 4 2009, 09:53 PM, said:

Now you're just trolling Gothos. Stretch your imagination and you might be able to come up with several plausible explanations yourself.

Maybe he is and maybe he isn't. Regardless, there isn't sufficient information in his post to confirm either way.

Does this mean YOU are guilty of having expectations of Gothypoos based on previous experiences, and not viewing this as an individual case?

I believe that's called "profiling".

OMG APT IS AN INTERWEBZIST!!!

Or would that be a case of ME profiling??? Ah, brain hurtz.

I bite my thumb at you sir.

@ Gothos, meh, if it walks like a Troll and talks like a Troll.. it could be a Gothos

[Wry]

Here to get into university you just have to meet a certain Academic standard which varies depending on the feild you want to study, the College doesn't know anything more about you that a name and your grades. Correct me if i'm wrong but it's different in the states no? you make an application, tell them why you should be in their school, what value you bring, etc. then they either accept you or not. If that is the case then surely it would not be hard for an administration who did not want black students to bias heavily in favour of white applicants. Then the need for "black Universities" would be apparent.


Also, most of you people are making me so annoyed with your posts i've to physically restrain myself from posting... this is why i stay off this board!

Just so you know

[Gothos]

oh and btw I just had a thought regarding how my country benefitted from colonialism due to economic relations with Western Europe who benefitted from Marshall's Plan which bases on an economy that benefitted from slavery...
Japan and South Korea got uncountable amounts of americadollars pumped into them as well. would you place them into the colonialism beneficients basket as well? also, they're not white males.

[Aptorian]

Like Wry mentions, in Denmark you just need a sufficient grade to get into University ( we don't have colleges), the government pays you to study. You don't even have to be particular clever to get into the more easy faculties... like History

Still, there is a ridiculously small percentage of danish first, second and third generation immigrants as university students. You do see a lot of them in business schools though.