[D'rek]

Aptorian, on May 8 2009, 03:18 PM, said:

amphibian, on May 8 2009, 08:33 PM, said:

Urizen, on May 8 2009, 04:39 AM, said:

It was the Hounds of Shadow that dumped Nebrahl with Poliel then bailed just before the Deregoth came along and tore both Poliel and Nebrahl to peices.

Poliel died when Paran threw the shard of otataral into her hand.

The Deragoth killed the last of Dejim Nebrahl and then Apsalar came by and cleaned them up. I can't remember if any survived that and then got killed or just survived that. I need to do a re-read this summer of all the books again.

No, the piece of Ottataral crippled Poleil. Probably making her unable to access her own power. Then the Hounds tore her to pieces.

I would have loved to have seen her pull out the Ottataral shard, and being all "Fuck this shit, I don't need god powers, I'm a Forkrul Motherfucking Assail, bitches!" and then proceeded to kick the hounds collected asses. But that didn't happen

Forkrul Assail? She had like razor-claw-feet and reptilian skin or some such (quote needed). Still would've been cool. And just so we're clear, it went like this:

-Paran imaples Poliel with Otataral, preventing her powerness
-Apsalar stalls the HoS
-HoS deposit Dejim at Poliel's feet
-Everyone leaves if they haven't already, including the HoS
-Deragoth arrive and obliterate both Dejim and Poliel

[Powder]

My original post may have been a bit harsh, but when reading the prologue and all the sinister saw 1-threeveteen scenes about how there are dread surgeries going on i feel kind of prepared to rage about KCCM. I also get a glimpse that ampelas rooted is in the shape of a giant t-rex, given the names of all the different places. I really do like all of SE's creations thus far (minus the KCCM) and now that they are getting an actual perspective (and not just being boogie monsters) I may end up liking them as well. I seem to remember it taking hundreds of thousands of andii/edur to kill just thousands of kell hunters alla scabby and silchas ruin's entrance to the world. So apparently they are pretty BA. O and I swear if that assassin KCCM kills Fiddler im going to throw the book at the wall and continue reading later lol. /rant

[D'rek]

Powder, on May 8 2009, 04:49 PM, said:

O and I swear if that assassin KCCM kills Fiddler im going to throw the book at the wall and continue reading later lol. /rant

Eh, with the way things seem to go in this series the KC-assassin (Shi'gal?) will have a bunch of funky abilities, like flying and be viewed in horrendous fear by all the other characters, but will do nothing and die from a cusser (though I suppose it could still be dramatic, ie Hedge blows himself up again taking him down, etc)

[dawnkiller]

D'rek, on May 8 2009, 07:25 PM, said:

Eh, with the way things seem to go in this series the KC-assassin (Shi'gal?) will have a bunch of funky abilities, like flying and be viewed in horrendous fear by all the other characters, but will do nothing and die from a cusser (though I suppose it could still be dramatic, ie Hedge blows himself up again taking him down, etc)

I'm inclined to agree here, if only because there's got to be a reason the KCCM lost to the Tiste and are now virtually extinct. Climate changes, insufficient numbers, magic they couldn't compete with, whatever -- they're still a nearly-extinct race. I suspect part of their perceived toughness is that very few people are used to fighting them. Arrows don't seem to do a lot, but in RG Bivatt noticed that a heavy spearwound damaged Gunth Mach, and the Awl, though they lost the ancestral war against them, did survive long enough to develop specialized weapons like the razor-whip. And munitions seem to work on everything. Memories of their appearances as undead in MoI are a bit fuzzy, but I don't think we've ever seen their reaction to sorcery, either, aside from knowing the Matron controls theirs. Providing they do end up the enemy, which I'm still dubious about, once people start learning to keep their distance during engagements I suspect we're going to see the playing field level a little (especially if they manage to get some Moranth in there to aerially disperse the munitions -- and if the Moranth are indeed descended from Edur or other Tiste, they may find sufficient reason to join the fight).

[Sinisdar Toste]

i could see a scene where the fourteenth comes upon the search party being led up by the shi'gall and the matrons supposed destriant and hedge just shitting his pants and sayin to tavore in a croak "I suggest we negotiate," while quick ben nods frantically. just cuz i don't see SE throwing the 14th against such an obviously unbeatable enemy for no apparent reason. i mean there's been a lot of things done in this series for no apparent reason, but there's no foreseeable outcome to such a battle that would satisfy any of the unresolved conflicts that have been developed

[MTS]

I agree - the 14th vs. the KCCM solves nothing in the long run. All that could possibly come out of such a clash is more illumination into the KCCM lifestyle, which we don't really need.

[Powder]

well shi'gal swooping down from the heavens and be-heading my beloved sapper would at least be more exciting than trulls death. Though it is unlikely (my money is still on fid making it through the series and ending the series as a whole by playing a song, only this time it is societies death he is remembering).

[Ammanas]

Back in MoI, there were plenty of Kell for everyone. Let's see--Tool and the Seguleh had some success against them. K&B survived an attack. The horse and rope trick used by the Grey Swords was effective, IIRC.

However, I never understood why the Andii didn't unveil Kurald Galain against them. We've seen Rake do it in GoTM and MoI, it's devastating. Also, he told Korlat early in MoI not to hesitate to unveil KG against Kallor if he moved against Silverfox and I believe she questioned the wisdom of such a move, considering how many Andii were present. I interpreted as meaning she believed that would be far more power unleashed than was needed to slay Kallor.

I'm curious why the Andii didn't unveil against the Kell.

This post has been edited by Ammanas: 09 May 2009 - 06:59 PM

[Aptorian]

Ammanas, on May 9 2009, 08:58 PM, said:

Back in MoI, there were plenty of Kell for everyone. Let's see--Tool and the Seguleh had some success against them. K&B survived an attack. The horse and rope trick used by the Grey Swords was effective, IIRC.

Tool and the Seguleh aren't your average humanoid soldier. A 14th soldier, be they heavies or marines, are not going to be displaying a skill anywhere near what those scary sword fighters could do.

KB&B are super strong/skilled warlocks. Again, not what you can expect being displayed by the 14th in an average clash. Quick, Sinn, maybe a few unknown mages among the 14th could do the same, but for how long? and against how many?

The Horse trick was cute. It only cost the Grey Swords... what? 50 dead perhaps? along with the loss of of an unknown number of valuable horses. Those numbers don't sound good for the 14th.

Ammanas, on May 9 2009, 08:58 PM, said:

However, I never understood why the Andii didn't unveil Kurald Galain against them. We've seen Rake do it in GoTM and MoI, it's devastating. Also, he told Korlat early in MoI not to hesitate to unveil KG against Kallor if he moved against Silverfox and I believe she questioned the wisdom of such a move, considering how many Andii were present. I interpreted as meaning she believed that would be far more power unleashed than was needed to slay Kallor.

I'm curious why the Andii didn't unveil against the Kell.

An unveiling sounds to be a complicated ritual not something you just use over and over.

When Rake gave permission to using the unveiling and Korlat was surprised, it proved one thing. Rake gauged Kallors strength to possibly be much greater than what was apparant. It showed just how scary the guy is. some... 70, I think the number was, Andii were needed to destroy the CGs nascent realm. 1100 Andii would have nuked the entire subcontinent of the Panion Domin, but Rake thought that many may be needed to take Kallor out for sure.

Your question is of course interesting. When I just started the forum, I used to ask those questions constantly. Why didn't they use an unveiling to remove the entire panion domin from the face of the earth? Why didn't Brood step out of portal warren ten kilometers from the Panion Capital and smack his hammer in the ground? Why didn't all the T'lan Imass dust travel immediatly into the Panion Domin and begin the slaughter? Why didn't Olar Ethil nuke the Seer. Why didn't Hood just open his warren over the Panion Domin and rain death on the continent? Why didn't he use his army? Why didn't K'rull just put all the Panions to sleep? Why didn't the House of Shadow get directly involved in the fight when their attempt to sneak in Apsalar failed? Etc. etc. etc.

The answer is of course, that then we wouldn't have had a kick ass convergence, the circumstances and the actions of the characters are tailored to set up the final stages.

[Raraku]

"However, I never understood why the Andii didn't unveil Kurald Galain against them. We've seen Rake do it in GoTM and MoI, it's devastating. Also, he told Korlat early in MoI not to hesitate to unveil KG against Kallor if he moved against Silverfox and I believe she questioned the wisdom of such a move, considering how many Andii were present. I interpreted as meaning she believed that would be far more power unleashed than was needed to slay Kallor.

I'm curious why the Andii didn't unveil against the Kell. "


Actually the Andii did unleash KG which why at the end of the MOI, the negotiations of who will keep Coral is between Aragan and the Andii because Coral became part of KG.
Also before that during the march of the army towards Coral, Korlat tells the remaining Andii (12 of them i think) to start cleaning KG of the CG s influence so that they could use it during the battle. At that point Kallor tells her 12 Andii trying to clean KG wont be enough.

This post has been edited by Raraku: 10 May 2009 - 08:41 AM

[Ain't_It_Just_]

Yeah they did unveil KG, but that was basically...enveloping the city with their warren. Not really designed for combat.

Here's a bit of a crazy theory-maybe KG has no effect on the KCCM as their magic (Kaschan) was used to send a death-spell towards MD. Maybe the effect extended to their warren. But, I'm probably speaking crazee.

[The Swordbearer]

Im Baaaack. LOL
My KCCM theorys.{not in any order}.

#1 The Matron is able to self Bio Engineer her offspring to a certain extent after conception, using a combination of KCCM magic and technology.. The rest is acomplished through surgery {The K' Ell hunters are not born with swords atatched to their arms} and drugs. From the prolog and the comments about new wings and eyes for the Sh'Gal Gu'Rull they might have used a form of stem cell technology to grow extra appendages and other bits an tits.
Live Birth is a natural evolutionary progression,survivabilty is better and it would be it easier for the Matron to control the genetics of the offspring.

#2 Sauro Sapiens {KCCM} perhaps would Smelll/Taste with their tounge like our reptiles, maybe that is what the flavours bit refers to?

#3 No oral language, they communicate empathicly {could U imagine meeting up with a telepathic 10ft tall raptor confusing you with images It 'd scare the crap outa most and elicccit a Kill it now response. {I know DM I prob spelled most of that wrong sorry} coupled with images the Matron seems able to compell her offspring with this as long as they have been Bio Engineered to accept it, the Nah Ruk being throwbacks wont feel the same need to comply.as in-
" Errr No! I'm not going to mindlessly throw mysellf onto that thingy .Seriouslly did we even try to find out what it wants other than to skewer us with its sword? an besides we get too pushy an it turns into a big black Matron buggerin Dragon an spewes black crap all over us an lemme tell ya Its bloody COLD!!!"

#4 The Racial responce of all KCCM short and long tails to the Jaghut. They use a cooling of the air to calm the lizard brain's fear/flight reaction down, a Jaghut's magic would smack em right where it hurts the most, causing a kill it quick its a Jaghut response. al la what happened when the feamale that Karsa met with in the Jag Odahn ran into the short tails when she was investigating the collapse of a rituall she had set in place eons ago.

#5 The proggresion to KCCM. Natural evoloution of predatory bird/reptile as per our earth norm would set them to a live birth pair bonded creature adding characteristics like the female being the larger and more dominant the male being the nest builder and protector as well as the food gatherer in the pair.Iif one inovative female decided to change the status quo and started bio engineering offspring for certain traits [We humans are exploring the same thing on a lesser scale}

This post has been edited by The Swordbearer: 10 June 2009 - 09:50 AM

[The Swordbearer]

Ooops ran out of room for more drivel but i guess thats enough for now.
Man cant wait for DoD to hit the shelves. man I love these books

This post has been edited by The Swordbearer: 10 June 2009 - 09:38 AM