Malazan Empire: Envy's Brother - Malazan Empire

Jump to content

  • 2 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

Envy's Brother Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   D'rek 

  • Consort of High House Mafia
  • Group: Super Moderators
  • Posts: 12,205
  • Joined: 08-August 07
  • Location::

Posted 07 March 2009 - 12:38 AM

(In the DoD forum so discussion of later characters doesn't need spoilering)

So, yeah, been re-reading MoI and Envy has a brother.

Quote

The T'lan Imass turned her head. 'Who has granted the beast this edged gift?'
Lady Envy shrugged with delight at the opportunity to return such a gesture. 'A misguided sibling who'd thought he was being kind. All right, perhaps that was too simplistic an answer. My sibling had found the goddess, terribly damaged by the Fall, and needed a warm-blooded place to lay her spirit, so that it could heal. Serendipity. The ay's pack was dead, whilst she herself was too young to survive in normal circumstances. Worse yet, she was the last left on the entire continent.'
'Your sibling has a misplaced sense of mercy, Lady Envy.'
'I agree. We have something in common after all! How wonderful!'


Feel free to discuss who it could possibly be, from among characters already seen or heard of (not that we've definitely seen him). I would imagine Envy has the same family views as the draconean ascendants, and so this may be only a half-brother, and therefore the child of Draconus and someone other than Sheltatha, or vice versa...

This post has been edited by Impressive Clergyman: 07 March 2009 - 12:40 AM

View Postworrywort, on 14 September 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

I kinda love it when D'rek unleashes her nerd wrath, as I knew she would here. Sorry innocent bystanders, but someone's gotta be the kindling.
0

#2 User is offline   Silencer 

  • Manipulating Special Data
  • Group: Administrators
  • Posts: 5,655
  • Joined: 07-July 07
  • Location:New Zealand
  • Interests:Malazan Book of the Fallen series.
    Computer Game Design.
    Programming.

Posted 07 March 2009 - 12:47 AM

When I first read that paragraph I thought it was K'rul....don't know why. I now doubt that.

We haven't met them, and, given the nature of the Elder times, I wouldn't be surprised if the sibling is dead.

Or, she is talking about sibling in the sense that Mother Dark is, in some ways, a sibling to her - old, ancient, and related in a round-about sort of way. Grizzen Farl? :)
***

Shinrei said:

<Vote Silencer> For not garnering any heat or any love for that matter. And I'm being serious here, it's like a mental block that is there, and you just keep forgetting it.



"For the record, I'm pretty sure my mind was shouting 'CLICHESTORM' over and over again during the opening of Skyrim...just putting that out there.." - Me.


~Nothing is true. Everything is permitted.~
0

#3 User is offline   D'rek 

  • Consort of High House Mafia
  • Group: Super Moderators
  • Posts: 12,205
  • Joined: 08-August 07
  • Location::

Posted 07 March 2009 - 12:51 AM

Possible. But what kind of entity/person would save Fanderay/Baaljagg? This bears consideration, yes?

Seeing as Sheltatha is somewhat Edur-ish, I was thinking she could possibly be the mother of Tulas Shorn, and since he loves animals so much, it would make sense for him to have saved Fanderay/Baaljagg.

View Postworrywort, on 14 September 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

I kinda love it when D'rek unleashes her nerd wrath, as I knew she would here. Sorry innocent bystanders, but someone's gotta be the kindling.
0

#4 User is offline   Silencer 

  • Manipulating Special Data
  • Group: Administrators
  • Posts: 5,655
  • Joined: 07-July 07
  • Location:New Zealand
  • Interests:Malazan Book of the Fallen series.
    Computer Game Design.
    Programming.

Posted 07 March 2009 - 01:05 AM

Gar. I lost my post I'd made.

Summary:

Thought Tulas Shorn was dead long before the Fall (Edur succession killings).

Can't think of anybody else who is related or possibly related to Envy who is kind enough to do that.
***

Shinrei said:

<Vote Silencer> For not garnering any heat or any love for that matter. And I'm being serious here, it's like a mental block that is there, and you just keep forgetting it.



"For the record, I'm pretty sure my mind was shouting 'CLICHESTORM' over and over again during the opening of Skyrim...just putting that out there.." - Me.


~Nothing is true. Everything is permitted.~
0

#5 User is offline   Illuyankas 

  • Retro Classic
  • Group: The Hateocracy of Truth
  • Posts: 7,254
  • Joined: 28-September 04
  • Will cluck you up

Posted 07 March 2009 - 01:07 AM

Good chance it's a typo, was meant to be a she and is Spite. Someone needs to find the bit of Baaljagg's memory where she meets the bandaged-handed entity who does the god-installing and see if there's any more gender identification there.
Hello, soldiers, look at your mage, now back to me, now back at your mage, now back to me. Sadly, he isn’t me, but if he stopped being an unascended mortal and switched to Sole Spice, he could smell like he’s me. Look down, back up, where are you? You’re in a warren with the High Mage your cadre mage could smell like. What’s in your hand, back at me. I have it, it’s an acorn with two gates to that realm you love. Look again, the acorn is now otataral. Anything is possible when your mage smells like Sole Spice and not a Bole brother. I’m on a quorl.
0

#6 User is offline   Sinisdar Toste 

  • Dead Serious
  • View gallery
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 3,851
  • Joined: 14-July 07
  • Location:The C-Hood

Posted 07 March 2009 - 01:10 AM

im just gonna put it out there that the only indication of gender is the word he, which could easily have been meant to be she. its only used once in the passage as well, making it impossible to confirm if she was talking about a man or woman.

depressing realities aside i think it could have been a brother of envy's, you never know, maybe draco had a little upstart of his own that made a play for Dragnipur and he had to lay the lad low.
There's a fine line between genius and insanity. I have erased this line.

- Oscar Levant
0

#7 User is offline   Lisheo 

  • Difference Engineer
  • Group: High House Mafia
  • Posts: 2,306
  • Joined: 04-June 07
  • Location:Slowly returning, piece by piece.
  • Interests:All of the things.

Posted 07 March 2009 - 03:06 AM

Bandaged hand entity means K'rul. It was how he was clearly described in the prologue of MoI, and I can't see why SE would go to such lengths to describe him if it wasn't important later on.
“People have wanted to narrate since first we banged rocks together & wondered about fire. There’ll be tellings as long as there are any of us here, until the stars disappear one by one like turned-out lights.”
- China Mieville
0

#8 User is offline   D'rek 

  • Consort of High House Mafia
  • Group: Super Moderators
  • Posts: 12,205
  • Joined: 08-August 07
  • Location::

Posted 07 March 2009 - 03:53 AM

View PostLisheo, on Mar 6 2009, 10:06 PM, said:

Bandaged hand entity means K'rul. It was how he was clearly described in the prologue of MoI, and I can't see why SE would go to such lengths to describe him if it wasn't important later on.


Everyone is described like that. Edgewalker, K'rul, Draconus, Hood... they all wear rags for no apparent reason, seeing as they're fucking gods and you'd think those temple coffers would have enough money for a shopping spree or shower installation... I'll bet ya Mowri dresses like an Emperor...

Oh, hey, I realized. It's Orfantal. Silly me.

View Postworrywort, on 14 September 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

I kinda love it when D'rek unleashes her nerd wrath, as I knew she would here. Sorry innocent bystanders, but someone's gotta be the kindling.
0

#9 User is offline   Talamadas 

  • Sergeant
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 79
  • Joined: 03-May 07

Posted 07 March 2009 - 10:39 AM

So that would mean "sibling" as in also eleint soletaken?
I must say that i think either the K'rul or the typo theory will be correct. We will see.
0

#10 User is offline   Lisheo 

  • Difference Engineer
  • Group: High House Mafia
  • Posts: 2,306
  • Joined: 04-June 07
  • Location:Slowly returning, piece by piece.
  • Interests:All of the things.

Posted 07 March 2009 - 11:17 AM

Draconus, iirc, wears rags becuase he's in Dragnipur. Edgewalker wears rags because he's dead.
Let's take them, both then.
Draconus was considered cruel, and also her father, so not him.
Edgewalker rarely leaves shadow except on a Shadow Moon.
Hood? It's possible, especially as it's the soul of the goddess, and Hood is not unkind, but he's not related to Envy in any way.
Thus, most likely, K'rul. also, it said bandage-wrapped, and K'rul was wrappped in rotting rags. And he seems kindest. See Buke(?) in MoI.
“People have wanted to narrate since first we banged rocks together & wondered about fire. There’ll be tellings as long as there are any of us here, until the stars disappear one by one like turned-out lights.”
- China Mieville
0

#11 User is offline   L'oric 

  • High Fist
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 339
  • Joined: 29-June 07
  • Location:Miami, FL. USA

Posted 07 March 2009 - 01:08 PM

View PostLisheo, on Mar 7 2009, 05:17 AM, said:

Draconus, iirc, wears rags becuase he's in Dragnipur. Edgewalker wears rags because he's dead.
Let's take them, both then.
Draconus was considered cruel, and also her father, so not him.
Edgewalker rarely leaves shadow except on a Shadow Moon.
Hood? It's possible, especially as it's the soul of the goddess, and Hood is not unkind, but he's not related to Envy in any way.
Thus, most likely, K'rul. also, it said bandage-wrapped, and K'rul was wrappped in rotting rags. And he seems kindest. See Buke(?) in MoI.



Doesn't Draconus call K'rul brother when they go take on Kallor along with Nightchill? Or is it the other way around? Anyway if they are "brothers" then I would think Envy would not describe him the same way. Family or relation or something along those lines.

I am going to vote not Krul either. I am going to go for typo or unknown power player. Maybe its one of the guys playing nursemaid to Killy.

Sincerely
What I do not know fills many more volumes than what I do know.
0

#12 User is offline   D'rek 

  • Consort of High House Mafia
  • Group: Super Moderators
  • Posts: 12,205
  • Joined: 08-August 07
  • Location::

Posted 07 March 2009 - 04:29 PM

View PostLisheo, on Mar 7 2009, 06:17 AM, said:

Draconus, iirc, wears rags becuase he's in Dragnipur. Edgewalker wears rags because he's dead.
Let's take them, both then.
Draconus was considered cruel, and also her father, so not him.
Edgewalker rarely leaves shadow except on a Shadow Moon.
Hood? It's possible, especially as it's the soul of the goddess, and Hood is not unkind, but he's not related to Envy in any way.
Thus, most likely, K'rul. also, it said bandage-wrapped, and K'rul was wrappped in rotting rags. And he seems kindest. See Buke(?) in MoI.


I wasn't seriously considering them, just illustrating that a lot of important dudes from those days wear rags and dress shabbily...

The fact that she states the person was her sibling twice with clarity makes me think it's not just a stretch-of-phrase, and really I don't think K'rul could ever be considered her brother, he's a generation and hundreds of thousands of years or more older than her... if anything he'd be an uncle...

View Postworrywort, on 14 September 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

I kinda love it when D'rek unleashes her nerd wrath, as I knew she would here. Sorry innocent bystanders, but someone's gotta be the kindling.
0

#13 User is offline   T'renn 

  • First Sword
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 516
  • Joined: 22-November 08
  • Location:Wizards Tower, Delft, the Netherlands
  • Cussing Forevah

Posted 07 March 2009 - 06:36 PM

If HE saved Fanderay, maybe it was the Errant, since he offered Fanderay sanctuary ? I mean he is described a beautifull, like the sisters, he is human, so....
...Every tale is a gift,
And the scars bourne by us both,
are easily missed,
In the distance between us.

-Fisher-


Don't be blind,
Mind,
To be kind,
For you will find,

Kindness has its own rewards,
and each must find his way to heaven

-T.D. Mengerink-
0

#14 User is offline   Theotendo 

  • Unfunny Fool of the Abyssmal Army
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 76
  • Joined: 01-February 09
  • Location:South of the border.Way south.
  • Interests:The humor of unfunny jokes.

Posted 07 March 2009 - 07:41 PM

View PostImperial High Mage Tayschrenn, on Mar 7 2009, 08:36 PM, said:

If HE saved Fanderay, maybe it was the Errant, since he offered Fanderay sanctuary ? I mean he is described a beautifull, like the sisters, he is human, so....



Wasn't it the fallen Fener who was given sanctuary?

Given the twisted histories of the Elder ascendants, I wouldn't be surprised if Envy had a brother or half brother hidden away somewhere. But SE's work isn't without its typos here and there. Either or *shrugs*.

The Errant does date back to the Imass periods...who knows?
...I think I stepped in something...untoward...
0

#15 User is online   Aptorian 

  • How you doin?
  • Group: The Wheelchairs of War
  • Posts: 22,869
  • Joined: 22-May 06

Posted 08 March 2009 - 07:22 PM

I'm just going to ignore everything that people has said in here and put my lot in with the people saying it's K'rull. It's how I remember it anyway.
0

#16 User is offline   Abyss 

  • abyssus abyssum invocat
  • Group: Administrators
  • Posts: 19,822
  • Joined: 22-May 03
  • Location:The call is coming from inside the house!!!!
  • Interests:Interesting.

Posted 10 March 2009 - 06:22 PM

Most of how MoI played out certainly seemed to be part of Krul's master plan.

And the 'sibling' ref, given the Elder God/Tiste/Draconic family trees, is certainly wide open for debate.

- Abyss, bets on Nefarias Bredd...
THIS IS YOUR REMINDER THAT THERE IS A
'VIEW NEW CONTENT' BUTTON THAT
ALLOWS YOU TO VIEW NEW CONTENT
0

#17 User is offline   Benji 

  • Fist
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 208
  • Joined: 08-November 08

Posted 10 March 2009 - 10:41 PM

At risk of sounding redundant...

Envy's brother is Wolverine.

End of.
0

#18 User is offline   Sindriss 

  • Walker of Edges
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 887
  • Joined: 25-May 07
  • Location:Denmark

Posted 10 March 2009 - 11:47 PM

Have to agree with it probably being a typo and the meaning was she and not he.

Quote

I would like to know if Steve have ever tasted anything like the quorl white milk, that knocked the bb's out.

A: Nope, but I gots me a good imagination.
0

#19 User is offline   tiam 

  • Ascendant
  • Group: Mott Irregulars
  • Posts: 3,918
  • Joined: 26-January 06

Posted 04 April 2009 - 08:20 PM

I read it as she anyway and always assumed it was nightchill.

Moving on swiftly...
0

#20 User is offline   Egwene 

  • Emperor
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 793
  • Joined: 09-July 08

Posted 08 February 2015 - 05:45 PM

Resurrecting this old thread because I just came across the paragraph and wondered if in light of more recent publications, anyone has new thoughts on this.

PS: Could a mod move the whole thread to the 'General book topics' board, please, so we can discuss without having to worry about spoilers. Thanks.
0

Share this topic:


  • 2 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users