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Economic Collapse Starting to worry now...

#161 User is offline   Shinrei 

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Posted 28 March 2009 - 10:36 AM

HoosierDaddy, maybe this will help you understand where Nic is coming from. I think his beef is with the government sponsered "volunteerism". He mislables it as "welfare" stuff, which makes it confusing, but here goes:

source:
http://www.liberty-n...hp?id=200402151
---------------------------------------------
(some select quotes)

Quote

President Clinton instituted the AmeriCorps, which paid young people to "volunteer" for a wide variety of social service organizations.

As part of his ongoing efforts to promote government-directed service programs, Clinton even sponsored the Presidents' Summit on America's Future in 1997 to encourage more volunteerism.

In a declaration that eerily echoed the rhetoric used by some of history's worst despots, Clinton and four former presidents informed Americans that they "owe a debt of service" and have "an obligation to give something back to the country and community."

By the late 1990s, such rhetoric had turned into law. In Maryland and about 200 local communities around the USA, school boards required young people to perform community service in order to graduate from high school.

Clinton praised such programs, saying that such mandated volunteering taught young Americans "the joy and duty of serving."

While Republicans at first opposed Clinton's AmeriCorps program, by the time President George W. Bush was elected, they embraced it -- after slapping on a fresh coat of red, white, and blue paint.

In 2002, Bush proposed spending $560 million on his USA Freedom Corps, which he said would expand Clinton's AmeriCorps. Bush said the program would recruit an additional 125,000-200,000 government-funded "volunteers" to build homes, teach literacy, assist police -- and "fight evil with acts of goodness."


------------------------------------------------

Quote

So what's so bad about serving your community, even if the government is forcing you (or paying you) to do it?

1) They are antithetical to the spirit of America.

The United States was founded on a radical notion: That the proper role of government is to protect the rights of citizens. In other words, individuals are the masters, and a (strictly limited) government is their servant.

National service turns that notion on its head. As Doug Bandow wrote in Cato Policy Analysis No. 190 (March 15, 1993): National service "programs ultimately assume that citizens are responsible, not to each other, but to the state. Mandatory, universal schemes unabashedly put private lives at the disposal of the government."

2) They get government more involved in private charities.

Like President Bush's plan to give federal money to religious charities, programs like the USA Freedom Corps have a damaging effect on philanthropic groups.

As Michael Tanner wrote in Cato Briefing Paper No. 62 (March 22, 2001) mixing government and charity could "undermine the very things that have made private charity so effective."

For example, he said, increased government involvement could leave private organizations "overwhelmed with paperwork and subject to a host of federal regulations," could leave groups increasingly dependent on government money and government-funded volunteers, and could politicize what should be compassionate or religious decisions.

"Most important," wrote Tanner, "the whole idea of charity could become subtly corrupted; the difference between the welfare state and true charity could be blurred."

3) Voluntary service programs can be a stepping stone to non-voluntary programs.

Many supporters of voluntary service programs are honest about what they really want: Mandatory service programs.

For example, Senator McCain supports a mandatory military draft or two-year term of equivalent civilian service, but says such a plan is "not currently politically practical."

However, as Bandow notes: "Proponents of a mandatory, universal system, such as Senator John McCain, see voluntary programs as a helpful first step."

David R. Henderson, an associate professor at the Naval Postgraduate School, agrees. As he wrote in Reason magazine (February 1993): "With the voluntary-service network in place, and with an existing constituency of organizations that benefit from the artificially cheap labor, the next step is compulsory service."

4) They are not needed.

Politicians promoting national service schemes suggest there is a lack of volunteers in America. They couldn't be more wrong.

According to the U.S. Department of Labor, 63.8 million Americans did some kind of volunteer work in 2003. That's 28.8% of the nation's population.

An earlier Gallup poll put the number even higher. It found that 48% of Americans volunteer every year, contributing over 19.5 billion hours of annual volunteer time.

In addition, more than three-quarters of American households donate to charity, according to the Cato Institute.

As past LP Executive Director Steve Dasbach said in a 1997 LP press release: "Politicians can't grasp the notion that Americans don't need to be bribed or blackmailed into volunteering."



Personally, I find myself agreeing to some extent with this (crazy minarchist that I am). But like anything else, its if you believe in the slippery slope or not. As long as these service programs NEVER BECOME MANDATORY I'm not going to complain too much.
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#162 User is offline   HoosierDaddy 

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Posted 28 March 2009 - 10:06 PM

Don't we have constitutional protections against forced labor? 5th, 13th, and 14th Amendments? That is kind of off topic anyways, but interesting none-the-less. I am beginning to view you as a Libertarian, Shin... is that anywhere correct?

This post has been edited by HoosierDaddy: 28 March 2009 - 10:07 PM

Trouble arrives when the opponents to such a system institute its extreme opposite, where individualism becomes godlike and sacrosanct, and no greater service to any other ideal (including community) is possible. In such a system rapacious greed thrives behind the guise of freedom, and the worst aspects of human nature come to the fore....
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#163 User is offline   Nicodimas 

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 05:47 AM

My whole problem with it is Mandatory community service. The amount of funding is a secondary issue. This is going to sound weird as it really is conflicting I have less problems FORCING a 18 year old who isn't pusueing educational goals to act for the state. 18 months of military/americorp service I am fine with it.

I have serious issues if they make anyone under 18 do a thing. My hopes are this would keep people in high school and going to college. Though motivation through potentially punishment is wrong it may be needed in our current era.

We are getting weak. It shows when we let all these criminals run wallsteet/etc and get away with it.

If you really look at it through these laws they have really destroyed the bill of rights if you look at it. One little rule at a time.

This post has been edited by Nicodimas: 29 March 2009 - 05:49 AM

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#164 User is offline   HoosierDaddy 

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 07:29 AM

View PostNicodimas, on Mar 29 2009, 01:47 AM, said:

My whole problem with it is Mandatory community service. The amount of funding is a secondary issue. This is going to sound weird as it really is conflicting I have less problems FORCING a 18 year old who isn't pusueing educational goals to act for the state. 18 months of military/americorp service I am fine with it.

I have serious issues if they make anyone under 18 do a thing. My hopes are this would keep people in high school and going to college. Though motivation through potentially punishment is wrong it may be needed in our current era.

We are getting weak. It shows when we let all these criminals run wallsteet/etc and get away with it.

If you really look at it through these laws they have really destroyed the bill of rights if you look at it. One little rule at a time.


Good lord. Talk about making a mountain out of a mole-hill. There is healthy skepticism, and then there is outright paranoia. Shin, you seem skeptical, and pretty much with it so I'll just disagree. The constitution FORBIDS slavery and involuntary servitude (as to students in high-school, Tinker v. Des Moines states: "Students do not shed their rights at the school house gates.... However, they do not employ the full panoply of civil rights, being a minor.)

Nic, I'm sorry, but everything you have said in this thread has led me to believe you are either simply a mouth-piece for ultra-conservative right wing thought, or bat-shit insane. "We are getting weak." How? Our army is actually the most latest up-to-date as to actual military use IN THE WORLD. "These laws are destroying our Bill of Rights." No, destroying the Bill of Rights was ease-dropping on inter-American conversations and wire-tapping without judicial approval. "I have serious issues with forcing anyone under 18 to do a thing." You don't like the education system? The one that a vast majority of the Americans on this forum went through? Yeah, we didn't have a choice... education is obviously bad.

Do you actually RESEARCH anything that you read? Or do you just believe it? Please, challenge my assertions with actual researched thoughts and if they somehow prove me wrong I will be happy, because it proves that you aren't a robot.

Anyways, this has gone completely off-topic and we need to reset.
Trouble arrives when the opponents to such a system institute its extreme opposite, where individualism becomes godlike and sacrosanct, and no greater service to any other ideal (including community) is possible. In such a system rapacious greed thrives behind the guise of freedom, and the worst aspects of human nature come to the fore....
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#165 User is offline   Nicodimas 

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 08:44 AM

I think people would feel differently if they didn't really just beleive everything they read and used common sense. It is something that is really lacking these days.

Paranoia is completely healthy. Unfound trust of others is nonsense.

Right?/ Left?. No I am my own person who believes using logic and intelligence in a situation. Most of this gen are robots believing that the old is new again. As a student of history something is very wrong with what is going on and people that seek the support of the goverment are a problem. Again the most natural human condition is Slavery and Tyranny and breaking free of that cycle is really precious. Most just go towards others making there decisions in there life.

Public education is a joke..No I don't want the govt telling my kids what to believe in. Terrible fallacy you used there.

Spying on us? It will always happen as they place people they trust to find the bad guys. It's probably a good thing that this is on the table and we can say hey that is wrong-you went to far. It is better than being fearful of the govt that they will take out anyone talking about it. This is your way of saying you don't trust the govt with this part of them spying. Why is it you don't trust them here, but trust them with your kids education and your money? Things that are infintely more important as your not a criminal correct? Is it because you feel these benefit things you signed off benefit you?

Again pick up some history books and start reading. It's never a bad thing to say "NO" when someone oversteps there bounds. Well it can be, but America was founded that we can do this. /grin

On the western weakness:
The world has grown at a pace unheard of after the industrial age. One of the biggest benefits was the change in life expectency. This really meant everyone got to survive and the weak has slowly been allowed to amass. Think on this as what it means over time. Just 100-120 years ago genetic lines were amazing. You had to be really awesome to survive, because if you didn't you would die of disease, tramua, and ineptitude. This really doesn't figure into the equation on most of our western society. It is great that our numbers have grown, but resources will always be limited and when the next true crisis happens which most Americans have forgotten about that and they will be totally screwed. <Eventually a overshoot will occur and most of people will die-through war-famine- or disease>

I have even trying to find out why this generation in America is so apatethic toward all that has been happening.Europe is having marches and we used to do the same in the sixties. So what changed. Have we become so decadent the only time we will start saying no when it is to damn late maybe? We have become so hopelessly attached to objects that we value stuff more than our very freedom.

Yes we need that road, bridge, street, healthcare system, plane, education system. Well the guy on washington says give us your money and we can make it happen. Afterall it is needed! Values go out the window and peoples greed are played on. This driving power towards the center more.

Ultimately we are writing a blank check to solves the banking problem in America with taxpayers money because your told it will all go to hell if you don't. People used to complain about billions well it moved to trillions i think the slippery slope was reached and broken a long time ago. The govt made a few real rich and left us with a black hole of a budget. Now where is your lack of trust in them?

Quote

"I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man"

^ The man that wrote this was a wise man.

(One of my favorite things about the malazan series is explores this concept of tyranny....and why I hope Karsa suceeds)

This post has been edited by Nicodimas: 29 March 2009 - 09:05 AM

-If it's ka it'll come like a wind, and your plans will stand before it no more than a barn before a cyclone
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#166 User is offline   HoosierDaddy 

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 09:02 AM

View PostNicodimas, on Mar 29 2009, 04:44 AM, said:

I think people would feel differently if they didn't really just beleive everything they read and used common sense. It is something that is really lacking these days.

Paranoia is completely healthy. Unfound trust of others is nonsense.

Right?/ Left?. No I am my own person who believes using logic and intelligence in a situation. Most of this gen are robots believing that the old is new again. As a student of history something is very wrong with what is going on and people that seek the support of the goverment are a problem. Again the most natural human condition is Slavery and Tyranny and breaking free of that cycle is really precious. Most just go towards others making there decisions in there life.

Public education is a joke..No I don't want the govt telling my kids what to believe in. Terrible fallacy you used there.

Spying on us? It will always happen as they place people they trust to find the bad guys. It's probably a good thing that this is on the table and we can say hey that is wrong-you went to far. It is better than being fearful of the govt that they will take out anyone talking about it. This is your way of saying you don't trust the govt with this part of them spying. Why is it you don't trust them here, but trust them with your kids education and your money? Things that are infintely more important as your not a criminal correct? Is it because you feel these benefit things you signed off benefit you?

Again pick up some history books and start reading. It's never a bad thing to say "NO" when someone oversteps there bounds.

On the western weakness:
The world has grown at a pace unheard of after the industrial age. One of the biggest benefits was the change in life expectency. This really meant everyone got to survive and the weak has slowly been allowed to amass. Think on this as what it means over time. Just 100-120 years ago genetic lines were amazing. You had to be really awesome to survive, because of you didn't you would die of disease, tramua, and ineptitude. This really doesn't figure into the equation on most of our western society. It is great that our numbers have grown, but resources will always be limited and when the next true crisis happens which most Americans have forgotten about that and they will be totally screwed.

I have even trying to find out why this generation in America is so apatethic toward all that has been happening.Europe is having marches and we used to do the same in the sixties. So what changed. Have we become so decadent the only time we will start saying no when it is to damn late maybe? We have become so hopelessly attached to objects that we value stuff more than our very freedom.

Yes we need that road, bridge, street, healthcare system, plane, education system. Well the guy on washington says we can make it happen give us your money and we can make it happen. Afterall it is needed! Values go out the window and peoples greed are played on. This driving power towards the center more.

Ultimately we are writing a blank check to solves the banking problem in America with taxpayers money because your told it will all go to hell if you don't. People used to complain about billions well it moved to trillions i think the slippery slope was reach and broken a long time ago. The govt made a few real rich and left us with a black hole of a budget. Now where is your lack of trust in them?



Nice sources you provided there Nic.

Pick of a history book? Sorry, but I actually happen to have a Bachelors Degree in History, Nic. I have, despite your insistence, picked up quite a few history books.

"Right?/ Left?. No I am my own person who believes using logic and intelligence in a situation. Most of this gen are robots believing that the old is new again. As a student of history something is very wrong with what is going on and people that seek the support of the goverment are a problem. Again the most natural human condition is Slavery and Tyranny and breaking free of that cycle is really precious. Most just go towards others making there decisions in there life."

Well Nic, if you think the most natural human relationships are "Slavery and Tyranny", then I don't think any free-thinking individual could ever help your medieval ass.

"Public education is a joke..No I don't want the govt telling my kids what to believe in. Terrible fallacy you used there."

Yes, I assumed you didn't want to offend everyone who didn't go to the school of Nic. I was obviously mistaken in the degree to which you have been brainwashed.


"Spying on us? It will always happen as they place people they trust to find the bad guys. It's probably a good thing that this is on the table and we can say hey that is wrong-you went to far. It is better than being fearful of the govt that they will take out anyone talking about it. This is your way of saying you don't trust the govt with this part of them spying. Why is it you don't trust them here, but trust them with your kids education and your money? Things that are infintely more important as your not a criminal correct? Is it because you feel these benefit things you signed off benefit you?"

Will it always happen? Has it always in history? You seem to be the non-resident-non-history guru Nic, point out some examples please? Also, I'm not afraid of the government Nic. I just don't like it when the Constitution (you know that one thing that we generally use to determine whether or not something is legal?) is abused. Strangely enough, I know enough about "education" to realize that is is mainly in the hands of state and local school-boards, and not simply dictated too by the Feds. But, it makes a convenient stomping ground for you, so I'll give you that benefit.


"I have even trying to find out why this generation in America is so apatethic toward all that has been happening.Europe is having marches and we used to do the same in the sixties. So what changed. Have we become so decadent the only time we will start saying no when it is to damn late maybe? We have become so hopelessly attached to objects that we value stuff more than our very freedom."

Oh, I must have forgotten the fact that we had a massive election just six months ago where the U.S. citizenship decided in which way we want the government to take the nation. Definitely "apathetic" when a large percentage of the population chooses to do something other than what you want... We do not need marches. We had an election.

"Have we become so decadent the only time we will start saying no [is]when it is to[o] damn late[,] maybe?" Actually, a lot of us have been saying no to ridiculous government action for a long time... you just must have had your head in the sand or were, probably, agreeing with it.

I believe that you aren't a mouth-piece now, Nic. I still think you are insane.

THIS REMAINS OFF-TOPIC, AND I APOLOGIZE FOR KEEPING IT SO.
Trouble arrives when the opponents to such a system institute its extreme opposite, where individualism becomes godlike and sacrosanct, and no greater service to any other ideal (including community) is possible. In such a system rapacious greed thrives behind the guise of freedom, and the worst aspects of human nature come to the fore....
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#167 User is offline   Nicodimas 

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 09:14 AM

Hoosier I mean no disrespect toward you and didn't mean for you to get defensive. I am not going win you over my post was mainly for the others in the forum to get them thinking. I don't know what to think of you as judging someone from some posts is rather weak.

It interesting that you believe in our two party system and we could go on and on about that. I think most know it for the sham it is these days where 300:1 oppose something like the orginal TARP, but it goes through.

Moving along..keep watching whats going on as we are watching history in action. Culling has happened throughout history and we may see one very soon. Or everything could turn around again and we would forget about it in six months. The American way...

Many people will think like me and remember what our forefather used to think. Not all of us have forgotten our father's yet.
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#168 User is offline   HoosierDaddy 

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 09:25 AM

View PostNicodimas, on Mar 29 2009, 05:14 AM, said:

Hoosier I mean no disrespect toward you and didn't mean for you to get defensive. I am not going win you over my post was mainly for the others in the forum to get them thinking. I don't know what to think of you as judging someone from some posts is rather weak.

It interesting that you believe in our two party system and we could go on and on about that. I think most know it for the sham it is these days where 300:1 oppose something like the orginal TARP, but it goes through.

Moving along..keep watching whats going on as we are watching history in action. Culling has happened throughout history and we may see one very soon. Or everything could turn around again and we would forget about it in six months. The American way...

Many people will think like me and remember what our forefather used to think. Not all of us have forgotten our father's yet.


I'm not being defensive, Nic. I just REALLY disagree with what you have to say. These last two posts of yours have been much more accessible, so I'm less likely to think you are nutso, but your previous robotic "mouth-piece" like posts had me wondering. The good thing about America and the World is that forums such as these exist for debate just like this.

However, in case you were wondering, I still think you are pretty nuts. :D
Trouble arrives when the opponents to such a system institute its extreme opposite, where individualism becomes godlike and sacrosanct, and no greater service to any other ideal (including community) is possible. In such a system rapacious greed thrives behind the guise of freedom, and the worst aspects of human nature come to the fore....
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#169 User is offline   Nicodimas 

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 06:31 PM

< I hope so to brother. If it goes down like how I am thinking (there are dozens of varations to it) that would suck. If they junk the dollar watch peoples anger levels increase big time. I just "feel" like we are at a crossroads and who knows would would follow if totally mess it up. Mad max world is not a good end result..They mess it up we will be fighting other countries for resources under some disguise of healthy war.

That will be one of the true end results if a economic collapse happens here. War's external/Mad max land internal.

This post has been edited by Nicodimas: 29 March 2009 - 06:35 PM

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#170 User is offline   Cold Iron 

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 10:02 PM

I feel this is a good indicator of the potential outcome:

View Postdktorode, on Mar 6 2009, 11:51 PM, said:

View PostCold Iron, on Mar 4 2009, 11:53 PM, said:

Will you feel like paying your taxes when you also have to support your parents because their pension checks aren't arriving? What happens when people don't feel like paying taxes? Black market trade. Government revenue plunges and they can't afford things like hospitals and police force.

What happens when you don't have a job, your dad dies waiting for a hospital bed, your mum is living in your kids bedroom, your car just got stolen and spam goes back to being a food product and not an internet product?



Sounds like home...



This (SA) is not nice, but it's not a mad max world.

This post has been edited by Cold Iron: 29 March 2009 - 10:03 PM

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#171 User is offline   Sindriss 

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Posted 01 April 2009 - 02:26 PM

I am sincere when I say that I am happy to still be studying and not being done for the next 2 years and 3 months. Hopefully the market will be better at that point.

Quote

I would like to know if Steve have ever tasted anything like the quorl white milk, that knocked the bb's out.

A: Nope, but I gots me a good imagination.
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#172 User is offline   Nicodimas 

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Posted 01 April 2009 - 11:28 PM

View PostSindriss, on Apr 1 2009, 03:26 PM, said:

I am sincere when I say that I am happy to still be studying and not being done for the next 2 years and 3 months. Hopefully the market will be better at that point.



It won't be... most likely by that time you be fighting in gang's to the death against multiple enemies for scraps of food.


I really need to write a book..I could create the most horrifying world I tell ya. To bad it won't be around to read it...dangit.
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#173 User is offline   Cold Iron 

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 01:03 AM

View PostNicodimas, on Apr 2 2009, 10:28 AM, said:

It won't be... most likely by that time you be fighting in gang's to the death against multiple enemies for scraps of food.

Most likely. Slightly less likely he will be anal probed by aliens. But only slightly.
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#174 User is offline   Nicodimas 

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 06:49 AM

The biggest problem is it looks like the mob, organized crime rules our country now.


Quote

GM is likely finished.

http://bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=2060108...&refer=home

April 1 (Bloomberg) -- General Motors Corp.’s 60-day deadline to restructure is unlikely to be extended because the U.S. won’t repay $1 billion in convertible notes maturing June 1, according to a person with knowledge of the discussions.

This is basically the government telling GM that either they get the bondholders to agree to whatever is necessary, or they're dead.

They're dead, and here's why.

Back on Monday I wrote about the Automakers and said this in closing:

And then there's the nearly $1 trillion in CDS that will trigger. There is no accurate way to know what the net exposure is on those, but I'd take the "over" on $100 billion, focused in you-know-where.

Here's the problem - I'm willing to bet that a huge percentage of those were written by AIG.

The government has provided a history now that says that if you are a holder of CDS written by AIG, you will get 100 cents on the dollar, even if the notes don't default. In addition that 100 cents is above what you would normally get even if there IS a default, because normally you have to tender the defaulted bond or the payout is limited by the recovery, and recovery on a defaulted bond is almost never zero.

So in this case the winning play, if you're a big bondholder, is to tell GM to suck eggs; you'll get paid 100 cents on your CDS even though AIG has no money, because the taxpayer will make you whole on those CDS, even if the bonds have a recovery in bankruptcy.

In other words you could conceivably get more than 100 cents if you hold those bonds - so long as you also hold a CDS as a hedge.

It must be nice to be able to screw the taxpayer for more than a 100% payout, right?

The bondholders "committee" is all made up of big players who presumably are hedged, ergo, this has to be assumed to be part of their "thought process" - if not the controlling factor.

Small bondholders on the other hand (who have no hedge, unless they were smart enough to buy lots of PUTs a few months ago) are just going to get plain old-fashioned screwed.

Since the only way GM survives is for it to get the bondholder committee to agree to restructuring it therefore follows that the only way this can happen is if the administration (and Fed!) makes very clear that all funding to AIG has been cut off and therefore no further "pass through" payments will (or can) occur.

That is, The Obama Administration has to bankrupt AIG to save GM, or we will instead see the banks again rip off the American Taxpayer through yet another "passthrough" CDS payout stream AND GM will go bankrupt.

Get ready America - you're about to get it in BOTH holes this time.

This is analysis and deduction based on the available and public facts - I have no proof - but I'll bet this is exactly how this deal will go down, and why.

PS: Every firm in America that has a significant amount of CDS outstanding is potentially subject to this same attack. It's all very nice that our government is permitting banks to rob the citizens like this, isn't it?


Mortgage crash this is just the beginning...

Quote


^ Look at that graph on the actual resets of adjustable rates as of 2009 we are ONLY 30% deep at this point...50% by 2010. holy $#%#
Only what 8% of 30 % of reseting loans caused what we have so far...
Whats happens when this get 4-5 times worse.

Quote


This post has been edited by Nicodimas: 02 April 2009 - 07:03 AM

-If it's ka it'll come like a wind, and your plans will stand before it no more than a barn before a cyclone
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#175 User is offline   HoosierDaddy 

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 07:03 AM

GOOD CHRIST NIC: STOP PLAGIARIZING.

That is nearly WORD FOR WORD, from "The Market Ticker", "Market-Ticker.Derringer.net."

Just in case you think I'm making it up.

Just because you "QUOTE" something doesn't give you free ability to plagiarize the entire damned article without actually CREDITING the PERSON WHO ACTUALLY HAS THE THOUGHT YOU ARE ATTEMPTING TO PASS OFF AS YOUR OWN. You'll find quite a few academics here who ABHOR, rightly, plagiarism.

Plagiarism rant/
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Also, I find it highly amusing this so-called "expert" has been predicting imminent DOOM for a while now, and yet... I see no gangs of starving masses. I see no massive outbreak of war. I have yet to see a SINGLE COMPANY FOLD that he actually (through your oft-times plagiarized posts on this board) predicted would FAIL.
Trouble arrives when the opponents to such a system institute its extreme opposite, where individualism becomes godlike and sacrosanct, and no greater service to any other ideal (including community) is possible. In such a system rapacious greed thrives behind the guise of freedom, and the worst aspects of human nature come to the fore....
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#176 User is offline   Cold Iron 

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 08:35 AM

To be fair HD I didn't think he was trying to pass it off as his own work, he should have just given the link like he has before.

Anyway, angry mobs and war is still a long way off, but we are starting to see protests... and some media staged violence:

Posted Image
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#177 User is offline   HoosierDaddy 

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 08:39 AM

View PostCold Iron, on Apr 2 2009, 04:35 AM, said:

To be fair HD I didn't think he was trying to pass it off as his own work, he should have just given the link like he has before.

Possibly, but it isn't the first time he's done it.


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Anyway, angry mobs and war is still a long way off, but we are starting to see protests... and some media staged violence:

Posted Image


Okay, but we see this at every G-20, G-10, G-8 meeting.

For thee most part, Nic's main source, Mr. Derringer (or whatever his name is) has proved absolutely incorrect. You can't doubt that.
Trouble arrives when the opponents to such a system institute its extreme opposite, where individualism becomes godlike and sacrosanct, and no greater service to any other ideal (including community) is possible. In such a system rapacious greed thrives behind the guise of freedom, and the worst aspects of human nature come to the fore....
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#178 User is offline   Cold Iron 

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 09:31 AM

View PostHoosierDaddy, on Apr 2 2009, 06:39 PM, said:

Okay, but we see this at every G-20, G-10, G-8 meeting.

Really? I didn't know that. Getting a lot more media coverage this time if that's the case.

View PostHoosierDaddy, on Apr 2 2009, 06:39 PM, said:

For thee most part, Nic's main source, Mr. Derringer (or whatever his name is) has proved absolutely incorrect. You can't doubt that.

I wouldn't say absolutely incorrect. It's well known that GM is fucked.
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#179 User is offline   Mushroom 

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 10:41 AM

Will all you people relax.

The world is gonna be fine.

Its like there are bunch of socialists in here just screaming or waiting to scream "I Told you So!" at the top of their lungs.

This post has been edited by Mushroom: 02 April 2009 - 10:42 AM

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#180 User is offline   Cold Iron 

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 11:10 AM

It's more than just system of governance. There is a finite amount of exploitable resources, the big collapse may not be now, but it'll happen. When they say the gobal population will stabalise at 9 billion, this doesn't mean people will just stop having more than 2 babies.

India and China are going to start competing more and more for the resources that keep you rich.
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