[Hood's Legacy]

Bauchelain the Evil, on 07 June 2010 - 12:29 PM, said:

From what we know Chainings refer exclusively to the CG. Seeing how in the last one Hood took Dassem's daughter and by Kalam's comment on Dancer's presence it is reasonable that it was rather recent.

If the CG's been a player for a while now, why is being portrayed as someone who's new to the gods' game? I mean, the common folks should have realised about him.. But, based on almost every other normal Joe's interaction, he comes off as a new god.

Malfurion Stormrage: Hmmm... there's something elusive...

[Tattersail_]

why would there be more than one chaining? Did he escape and they had to chain him again? Is this the past repeating itself? Is Dassem the same age as Cot and ST or is Dsssem older?

[Sinisdar Toste]

1) theres more than one chaining, imo, because the CG grows powerful enough to break some chains and therefore has to be re-chained
2) as far as we know dassem and CoT and ST are contemporaries, but

Spoiler

since they are all gods now its not really important

[LordofTheFallen]

Sinisdar Toste, on 06 August 2010 - 07:27 PM, said:

1) theres more than one chaining, imo, because the CG grows powerful enough to break some chains and therefore has to be re-chained
2) as far as we know dassem and CoT and ST are contemporaries, but

Spoiler

since they are all gods now its not really important

I'm not entirely sure if Dassem Ultor is a God, I think he is an ascendant seeing how he didn't die, just left. I think he is just considered or worshipped as a god, because other than his skill he doesn't seem to have any power.

[Jade-Green Pig-Hog Swine-Beast]

LordofTheFallen, on 16 October 2010 - 06:44 PM, said:

I think he is just considered or worshipped as a god...

Which would, by definition, make him a god, would it not? And also, in reference to the bit that I didn't quote, who said one has to die to become a god?

[WickanAssasin]

on the note of Traveller being Dassem Ultor,

Spoiler

in TtH Baruk's demon friend sees traveller walk into Darujhistan, and at the end of a small monologue he says "Dassem Ultor is here!"

.

Also, he was a resident of the deadhouse with Kellanved, Dancer, Surly, etc. One of the benefits of residing there was increased longevity, so they all may be more than they seem!

[Studlock]

I think Dassem Ultor is different as he can change between being a god and normal (if you can call him normal) human,

' "Greetings, Dessembrae," spoke a nearby gnawed skull, once buried but since dug up by scavebgers. "And I say Dessembrae for I see you are here now in that aspect." '

A sentence of a convo between Hood and Dessembrae from RotCG

[George Sengar]

I don't recall reading that Dessimbelackis was first sword at all. I thought he was the Emperor/self-proclaimed god/First Nutcase of the first human empire...
...I just check the EM and there's only one quoted paragraph there that has him and the words 'sword' and 'First Empire' in it, and it's a huge stretch to imagine the speaker means that he is the actual First Sword of the First Empire;

Quote

Before the appearance of Our Great Emperor, Dessimbelackis, our legions were thrown back on the field of battle, again and again. Our sons and daughters wept blood on the green ground, and the wagon-drums of the enemy came forth in thunder. But no stains could hold upon our faith, and it shone ever fierce, ever defiant. We drew our ranks tall, overlapped shields polished and bright as the red sun, and the one among us who was needed, who was destined to grasp the splashed grip of the First Empire's truthful sword, gave his voice and his strength to lead us in answer to the well-throated rumble of the Sar Trell warcries, the stone-tremble of their wagon-drums.

It's entirely possible that they had no First Sword at that time for whatever reason - no role/no candidate/dead/couldn't be arsed fighting numpty Trell/holidaying in Jacaruku, whatever, and that Dessim rallied them.
It's also entirely possible that the whole account was historical fiction..... wait..... >.>

Yeah, so I don't think the 'Dassem is Dessim reborn' theory holds up tbh.

[alt146]

LordofTheFallen, on 16 October 2010 - 06:44 PM, said:

Sinisdar Toste, on 06 August 2010 - 07:27 PM, said:

1) theres more than one chaining, imo, because the CG grows powerful enough to break some chains and therefore has to be re-chained
2) as far as we know dassem and CoT and ST are contemporaries, but

Spoiler

since they are all gods now its not really important

I'm not entirely sure if Dassem Ultor is a God, I think he is an ascendant seeing how he didn't die, just left. I think he is just considered or worshipped as a god, because other than his skill he doesn't seem to have any power.

@sinsidar

The crippled god has been chained many times because when he fell to earth he was fragmented. I think it is mentioned as early as Gardens of the Moon, I remember it being commented on in the Tor Reread. So multiple chainings for multiple instances of the crippled god. There are several possibilities as to why theCG is only now being considered at threat. The fact that the last chaining seems to be too much for Burn to handle is probably part of it, as does the fact that the CG is only now trying to aqcuire worshippers and regain godhood. Powerful beings have been chained/trapped/left under a rock as a matter of course in the series, eliminating a god is something else entirely.

On the matter of Traveller vs Dessembrae - Traveller is an ascendant, mainly due to sheer physical prowess and force of will. Dessembrae is a god, coming into being when the malazans started to worship Dassem. Unlike most other gods, Traveller doesn't actually want to be a God, so most of the time Dessembrae only exist in potentia. Every now and again though Traveller is forced into actions that align with Dessembrae's aspect -

Spoiler

The end of TtH is a perfect example

, the passage quoted above being another. In these instances Traveller becomes Dessembrae, or Dessembrae manifests or something along those lines. Traveller then gains the various benefits of worship, but is constrained by what his worshippers believe about him - probably the reason he rejects godhood in the first place.

[dreddiknight]

@alt146 well put!