[Sindriss]

I know it is many years in the future before we see this trilogy started, but it makes me feel excited that we will get it. Imagine how cool and hardcore anomander is as an youngster growing up as a son of mother dark with powah! And maybe brainz??

[Aptorian]

I don't think you should expect this to be the farmboy/young prince on new adventures type of stories. The trilogy is called Kharnadas(sp?) or something like that, I believe this was the name of the river or city we see in TTH.

Most likely it will be about the Andii society and their wars. If we're lucky we'll get the story of the sundering of Emurhlan and the exodus to Wu.

I also wouldn't be surprised if these books reveal that there once was, and maybe still is, a lot of powerfull Andii in KG the equal of Rake.

[HoosierDaddy]

Why would there be many there his equal? Am I working under the wrong assumption that the 3 (Anomander, Andarist, and Silchas) were still Mother Dark's very own, and different than the rest of the Andii?

[Aptorian]

We hear in TTH that there were many generals of the Andii, and numerous other kinds of powerplayers, like the priestess of the temple of Mother Dark.

The brothers spoke of them as equals and with reasonable respect.

[HoosierDaddy]

I need to reread TTH. All 3 brothers seem like they respect others... Do we have any knowledge of an inimmaculate conception (besides RG which is conflicting)?

[Aptorian]

Well, Udinass suspicions in RG suggests that Father Light is probably the brothers father.

But it's true, there's not going to be someone who was born more powerfull than them,

[HoosierDaddy]

You just blow by my RG statement!

Father Light is too simple. Father Light would make them of Emurlahn. Per RotCG/(maybe RG, can't remember) we know that the first conjoining of Light and Dark was after Anomander was born. If we aren't talking immaculate conception, which Baruk's Eleint thing states, I'm much founder of the Suzerain of night being involved, making events in Galain very Oedipal.

This post has been edited by HoosierDaddy: 16 February 2009 - 07:41 AM

[Cougar]

Hoosier, you are looking at this in far too literal a sense, I think to understand the truth of the origins of the Tiste we may need to view the light and dark stuff as a creation myth of sorts. Don't believe what the Andii say as truth, we have an overwhelming amount of their POVs but very little from the perspective of knowledgeable individuals like Silchas or Anomander, moreover it is clear from the (obviously incorrect in the case of the Edur) histories and perceptions of the other Tiste peoples that the Dark first, then light, creating shadow is not what they believe. There are enough hints, in particular in RG that the elements of Tiste history espoused as facts are infact little more than perceptions. If you re-read the conversations between Silchas Ruin and Udinaas in RG they are verging on some sort of revelation about Andii history and the role of light and the liosan in that. Furthermore the emnity the Liosan clearly feel for the Andii is demonstrably not present in the relationship of Osric and Anomander who we can expect have a level of knowledge about their history they never reveal in thought to themselves or conversation with others (we have no Osric POVs, do we have any Anomander POVs? I can't remember) both come across as lacking in dogma and very pragmatic from their actions and attitudes. Clearly MD does exist, but is she much more than another entity or an ascended Andii of some sort. I have felt for sometime that the difference between the Tiste peoples may be little more than the difference between people of different colours on earth (although they obviously represent aspects of light and dark etc).

[HoosierDaddy]

I understand exactly what you are getting at, Cougar. I certainly believe that Light and Dark were around at the same time. The intro to RotCG as well as RG hints at this as well. However, there is no Shadow without the conjoining of the Two. Doesn't that put Emurlahn's creation at a later point on a timeline? Everything we've read is that the Sundering of Emurlahn created all sorts of badness, and yet it was Silchas who led the Andii away from that. Anomander had been on Wu for a while at least, as well as Osserc.

I might very well be overly simplifying the relationships amongst them, but can someone clarify the Baruk's Eleint image for me? Is that SE sanctioned or not?

[Cougar]

The Draconean family tree is Baruks interpretation, it's official but the key point is Baruk is almost certainly wrong about a few elements.

[Benji]

Probably a silly question, but where is the family tree located?

[Aptorian]

Right here!

 post_1558_1224096980.jpg (25.86K)
Number of downloads: 106

It's also still stickied in the BH and RG forum I think.

EDIT: And the gallery I'm guessing.

[Grief]

http://www.malazanempire.com/IPBforum/inde...=si&img=137


Edit: Damnit apt.
Still, i'll leave it up, cause its useful for people to know how to find stuff using gallery.

[Benji]

Holy crap. I know this thing must have been up for some time, but it's the first I've seen of it

[Aptorian]

According to what I remember I think the draconean family tree was supposed to be put in HoC along with some other diagrams like it, but it was cut out for some reason.

Someone more in the know or older on the forum might remember the story.

[Cougar]

The thing about it is that there may be many things wrong with it, the names in the unformed age may be wrong, or simply display Baruks lack of knowledge, for instance, Olar Ethil is T'Lan Imass, or at least she is when we see her, she may not be part of this 'unformed age cadre'. We know Draconus called Wu 'a troubling manifestation [of reality]' so he presumably existed before it. Eleint as far as we know is a name for Dragons in genral, not for an individual. Moreover, do Anomander and his brothers really have no father? Does Liosercal have no mother or are these racial myths? Anomander, Andarist, Silchas nor Osric never confirm these facts themeselves to the best of my knowledge. Also Scabandari was a usurper who may have murdered the true firstborn of the Edur so it seems possible he is not the son of father light, but just a powerful Edur, remember in TtH he is spoken about in the same breath as Kagamadra Tulas Shorn and a few other powerful Edur.

[Benji]

I would like to think that it wasn't put in the book because SE realised that a lot of people would take it as fact, when it's only supposed to be Baruk's musings based on what he knows about Soletaken Eleint

[Aptorian]

Well, Erikson could easily solve that by adding a disclaimer.

[Cougar]

Yeah but a disclaimer would detract from the authenticity of the project wouldn't it. Even though I've only met the guy a couple of times I doubt this would be his style, he's a bit like: "if you don't understand what's going on then that's your problem not mine".

[Lisheo]

There are apparently THREE editions of the Draconean Family Tree, and they were scheduled to appear in HoC or tBH. Presumably they're going to be left till the Encyclopedia now, although I'm just guessing.