[blackzoid]

foolio, on Feb 6 2009, 01:23 PM, said:

Quote

I can't help but remember what happened to Treach before he ascended...maybe Fener will be killed by the perhaps-existent KCCM in the wastelands.

do we know how Treach died before he ascended?

Eh...ya.
He was killed by undead Kell Hunters in MOI. Toc experianced his final thoughts through a vision.
Remember?

[foolio]

Quote

Eh...ya.
He was killed by undead Kell Hunters in MOI. Toc experianced his final thoughts through a vision.
Remember?

completely missed that. MOI is next on my re-read list.

[Benji]

Yeah, it's in MoI. He got killed by KCCM

[D'rek]

Followed by Kilava mopping up his attackers.

[Aptorian]

In treachs defense he'd lost himself in his aspect and he had become nothing more than a giant tiger roaming the plains of genebackis.

[Ain't_It_Just_]

Was he supposed to ascend? Or was his killing pure chance and his ascension likewise?

[Aptorian]

It looked as though gods were pulling strings to get a new god to replace Fener, most likely it was K'rull since he was pulling a lot of strings in that book.

[Ain't_It_Just_]

But didn't his ascending take place way before Fener was pulled down?

[Aptorian]

No after... or somewhat at the same time. DG and MoI overlap. When the TTG mage arrives with fresh ressources for Coltains army the Malazans have just begun their march on the Panion Domin.

[Benji]

Treach was already ascended. He was a First Hero, which somebody (Quick Ben?) commented on being the same thing as an Ascendant. Toc comments on how Treach had to lose everything before he could ascend. First he lost his humanity, and then he lost his life. Sort of.

[L'oric]

D'rek, on Feb 6 2009, 10:46 PM, said:

Followed by Kilava mopping up his attackers.

Yet another of a long list of things that scare and intrigue me about Kilava. Treach a Soletaken First Hero who is (to me )obviously lessened by his inability to remember his humanity is killed by a few KCCM and Kilava mops the floor with whats left of them. Was sorcery involved? Anyone wonder why someone would pick Soletaken over D'ivers? Soletaken allows for a human form which is a huge plus and their one form tends to be larger, but can it really compare to 20 wolves?

Fener was morphed by his worshippers into a boar is what I have been reading but I do not remember any actual quotes on the subject. Why wouldn't he be able to take on another form? More information in general would please me to no end about this world, which is why I love the fact that two writers are doling out tidbits from time to time instead of one.

Sincerely,
L'oric

[Aptorian]

I don't believe Kilava is massively stronger or better than Treach was at his finest, it was him losing himself than made him vulnerable.

D'ivers can take human form, take Gryllen as an example.

As for Fener, I don't think Fener has ever been called a soletaken. People just assume he is because he's beastial. I think it's rather like Mael who has some kind of weird blue scaly form.

[L'oric]

Aptorian, on Feb 7 2009, 11:12 AM, said:

I don't believe Kilava is massively stronger or better than Treach was at his finest, it was him losing himself than made him vulnerable.

D'ivers can take human form, take Gryllen as an example.

As for Fener, I don't think Fener has ever been called a soletaken. People just assume he is because he's beastial. I think it's rather like Mael who has some kind of weird blue scaly form.

So why would anyone pick Soletaken over D'ivers if they can also take human form? D'ivers tend to be crazier/unstable?

So it would be possible for Fener to change forms even in his current cast out state?

Sincerely,
L'oric

[Aptorian]

We don't really know anything about Fener right now, personally I was surprised to see him on Lether. It suggests that he is still able to get around via warrens. So, powerfull he is.

I think the insanity is the main reason why more D'ivers don't exist. That and it isn't an easy thing to achive, something suggests that D'ivers don't exist naturally unlike Soletaken.

[Ain't_It_Just_]

If Ho wasn't insane before his three counterparts, then maybe humans are the only ones that wouldn't go insane if a D'ivers.

But that's a pretty big if.

[Benji]

I would say that Soletaken are somewhat natural, whereas D'ivers are the result of ritual magic. I think the main reason why we don't see too many D'ivers is that, apart from Ho, they were all created in that age old ritual that destroyed the First Empire.

[Ain't_It_Just_]

Didn't the T'lan Imass destroy the FE?

[Sinisdar Toste]

well it was in the process of killing itself. the t'lan just kept the madness from spreading

[Ain't_It_Just_]

You can always count on the undead...

[Skywalker]

foolio, on Feb 6 2009, 08:23 AM, said:

Quote

I can't help but remember what happened to Treach before he ascended...maybe Fener will be killed by the perhaps-existent KCCM in the wastelands.

do we know how Treach died before he ascended?

It was shown either from his own perspective or from Togg's perspective in MoI - I forget. After roaming around in his beast form for centuries (millennia?) he was set upon by two undead K'ell hunters and died, only to ascend.

ETA: Duh! for some reason didn't see there was a page 2 when I answered the question (redundantly).

This post has been edited by Skywalker: 09 February 2009 - 06:05 AM