[Mockra]

lol, probably the killers thinking which one of us they want to kill so that thy don't have to read more of oyur sapm form tomorrow night,

[Emurlahn]

lol but why?

This is soooo fun heh.

[Mockra]

don't ask me why, but some people have problems with spam..

apologies about my 20 minute absence, I went to spam in the Inn...
now then, have we exhausted the topic of the Trojan War, or is there anything else Fener would like us to mention?

[Emurlahn]

not sure. I'll talk about anything for another 30ish minutes I guess.

[Mockra]

he says that and then he dissapears.

sigh, oh well

off to spam more on the Inn!

[Emurlahn]

I resent that. I was merely waiting for you to bring up a topic.

[Mockra]

i'm procrastinating from resuming reading about Attenion in time.

I don't want to think of a topic, lol.
but getting back to the Trojan war for a sec, i recently recalled an oft-neglected episode of the war that has gotten new significance to me after reading MBotF. specifically, the bit where Odysseus and Diomedeus sneak into Troy and steal Palladium--the statue of Athena that was her gift to the city when it was founded.
it's funny how despite her obvious anger at troy, athena was bound to not let the city fall as long as the statue was in the city.
reminds me a of a ceetain theme erikson keep s bringing up in his works.

thoughts?

[Emurlahn]

I thought that Aeneas took the Palladium with him after escaping the sack of Troy, and brought it on his travels where it winds up in Rome eventually.

[Emurlahn]

Actually it was Anchises, the father of Aeneas who carries the Palladium from Troy.

[Emurlahn]

Also I am not sure what SE theme you are refering to. Care to enlighten me?

[Mockra]

the idea that gods are constrained by the actions of their worshippers.

and there are various versions, but the most popular one suggests that it was stolen by Odisseus and Diomdes, b/c they knew that Troy would not fall while it the Palladium remained there.

[Emurlahn]

Yeah, I had heard that version as well, but both times (high school and college) that I have learned about this the professor has gone with Anchises. But who knows.

As for the theme how gods are constrained by the actions of the worshippers: I see what you are saying in part, but I'm not sure if the stealing of the palladium was truely because Athena wouldn't let Troy fall with it inside or merely superstition.

One of Athena's roles is that of Defensive Warfare, so I suspose if her favor is upon the city its defenses are strengthened to the point where it cannot fall, but idk.

[Mockra]

well, the idea is more like "her word is binding, regardless of what happens in the future"

she gave the founders of Troy her word to defend the city, and was forced to keep it, untill the statue that symbolized the contract was removed fromt he city.
I mean, there are numerous other actions that clearly show that Athene did NOT like trojans much--Laakon's snakes are one of the best examples of that.

[Emurlahn]

We know that she didn't like the Trojans, as she strongely favors the Greeks. Besides having to be against Aphrodite there are many other examples of aiding the Greeks.

In Book 1 she prevents Achilleus from killing Agamemnon over the slave girl issue so the greek army wouldn't be fighting itself.
In Book 2 she strengthens the Greeks so they don't leave Troy. Agamemnon had jokingly told the armies to leave and they almost would have without Athena aiding Odysseus.

Those are a few examples, from the first 2 of 24 books, so there are many more.

However I do see what you are saying, but I don't think her word is that binding. Gods can lie as well, and depending on which version of the Palladium you follow the city may even be sacked with her favor in the city.

[Mockra]

heh
various interpretations are possible--after all, this is why every myth has 4-5 versions....

[Emurlahn]

exactly.

Well it was nice converstation we had here. The others will see it as spam tomorrow but, it was actually a good discussion.

And so, good night Mockra and Fener. It was fun.

This post has been edited by Emurlahn: 21 January 2009 - 04:43 AM

[Mockra]

goodnight
guess I
ll be getting to doing my work now....
back on thread in 6 hours or so.

[Path-Shaper]

Just under 6 hours left of night. If you haven't confirmed your provisionals please do so.

[Galain]

Why oh why don't people send in provisionals in advance?!?

groan

[Mockra]

no clue
lousy game trailers, kept me distracted... only strtign my work @ 1 am, sigh