[Emurlahn]

The death of Achilleus is in the Little Iliad, by Lesches of Lesbos (where Lesbian comes from)

[Fener]

Mockra, on Jan 20 2009, 09:13 PM, said:

well, yeah, it misses a large part of Ahilleus' story.
We get the resolution of the conflict between him and Hector, I believe, but his furthher great deeds (defeat of the Amazons, and then defeat of the Ethiopians, led by the son of Aurora, (Memnon, iirc) who ALSO posesses Hephestus-crafted armor), and his eventual death at the hands of Paris.... I never did understand why an arrow to the heel would prove lethal, since it's not like Paris used poison or anything...

Those events happened before the Trojan condom war. As his mother foretold, he never returned from the war. As for the arrow, I think it was more the symbolism of his weakness, rather than the actual physical improbability of dying from a shot to the heel that Homer was trying to convey. Of course, all they wore were sandals, so maybe he just got infected.

[Emurlahn]

Meanas, on Jan 20 2009, 09:15 PM, said:

Fener, on Jan 21 2009, 03:00 AM, said:

I don't give a shit what's discussed, I just want there to be discussion. Come on, feed my fucking habit.

I am feeling a little verklemped talk amongst yourselves. I will give you a topic.

The radical reconstruction of the south after the Civil War was neither radical nor a reconstruction. Discuss.

My American History class was a lecture on this today, heh. But I already started the Iliad discussion. I guess Night 2 is for American history. I wrote a great paper on the Radicalism of the American Revolution if you want to talk about that too, I'm good on that one heh.

[Fener]

Emurlahn, on Jan 20 2009, 09:16 PM, said:

The death of Achilleus is in the Little Iliad, by Lesches of Lesbos (where Lesbian comes from)

Yay lesbians.

*Goes hunting*



*faps madly*

*returns*

Wait, what?

[Mockra]

it wasn't homer, Lol

@ Meanas: well, they freed the slaves...
but then I believe a few decades later they passed the Joe Crow (?) laws, and the blacks lost their economic freedoms and opportunities.
also, prior to the war, the south was a cotton-based economy--one of the reasons for the war inthe first place was the conflicting worldviews of the two systems.
The South did not develop a serious industrial capability after the war, leaving it in the same sorry state it was in before. lack of industrial infrastructure made a recovery highly unlikely.

[Fener]

Emurlahn, on Jan 20 2009, 09:18 PM, said:

Meanas, on Jan 20 2009, 09:15 PM, said:

Fener, on Jan 21 2009, 03:00 AM, said:

I don't give a shit what's discussed, I just want there to be discussion. Come on, feed my fucking habit.

I am feeling a little verklemped talk amongst yourselves. I will give you a topic.

The radical reconstruction of the south after the Civil War was neither radical nor a reconstruction. Discuss.

My American History class was a lecture on this today, heh. But I already started the Iliad discussion. I guess Night 2 is for American history. I wrote a great paper on the Radicalism of the American Revolution if you want to talk about that too, I'm good on that one heh.

Oh God, my AmHist teacher was fucking awesome. I even called him a pron star in class and we just laughed. That class was such a joke on the outside, but he actually marked shit pretty hard. Maybe I'll dig up my Rad Reconstruct notes for tomorrow night. But now, Troy.

[Meanas]

Emurlahn, on Jan 21 2009, 02:18 AM, said:

Meanas, on Jan 20 2009, 09:15 PM, said:

Fener, on Jan 21 2009, 03:00 AM, said:

I don't give a shit what's discussed, I just want there to be discussion. Come on, feed my fucking habit.

I am feeling a little verklemped talk amongst yourselves. I will give you a topic.

The radical reconstruction of the south after the Civil War was neither radical nor a reconstruction. Discuss.

My American History class was a lecture on this today, heh. But I already started the Iliad discussion. I guess Night 2 is for American history. I wrote a great paper on the Radicalism of the American Revolution if you want to talk about that too, I'm good on that one heh.

Come on this is a pretty famous quote. Can no one tell me what its from. As for discussion of the iliad I am afraid that my knowledge is quite as complete as your guys. I can still remember the basic story line and sequences but not to much detail. I have a whole list of topics to give you when ever I am feeling a little verklemped.

Now I am going to night. Enjoy yourselves spammers.

[Fener]

Quote Mockra:

@ Meanas: well, they freed the slaves...
but then I believe a few decades later they passed the Joe Crow (?) laws, and the blacks lost their economic freedoms and opportunities.
also, prior to the war, the south was a cotton-based economy--one of the reasons for the war inthe first place was the conflicting worldviews of the two systems.
The South did not develop a serious industrial capability after the war, leaving it in the same sorry state it was in before. lack of industrial infrastructure made a recovery highly unlikely.

Jim Crow, actually.

This post has been edited by Fener: 21 January 2009 - 02:25 AM

[Mockra]

Fener, on Jan 20 2009, 09:16 PM, said:

Mockra, on Jan 20 2009, 09:13 PM, said:

well, yeah, it misses a large part of Ahilleus' story.
We get the resolution of the conflict between him and Hector, I believe, but his furthher great deeds (defeat of the Amazons, and then defeat of the Ethiopians, led by the son of Aurora, (Memnon, iirc) who ALSO posesses Hephestus-crafted armor), and his eventual death at the hands of Paris.... I never did understand why an arrow to the heel would prove lethal, since it's not like Paris used poison or anything...

Those events happened before the Trojan condom war. As his mother foretold, he never returned from the war. As for the arrow, I think it was more the symbolism of his weakness, rather than the actual physical improbability of dying from a shot to the heel that Homer was trying to convey. Of course, all they wore were sandals, so maybe he just got infected.

I beg to differ.
Achilleus got his Hephastos-forged armor after Partocles wore his armor on the tenth year of the war and got killed by Hector.
The episode with Memnon was all the more signifacant since both champions were fairly equal--Zeus had to weigh both their fates to determine the winner, with both Aurora and Fetide (sp?)
begging him to spare their son.

[Emurlahn]

night Meanas

[Mockra]

hmm
never took American history, so I can only talk about the stuff i've read in various outside sources.

as long as we're onthe topic of the Illiad, I must say i've always disliked Diomedeus. he just seems like a total jerk.

[Emurlahn]

@Mockra- who do you mean by Fetide?

Memnon was born to Eos (dawn) and Tithonus
Achilleus was born to Thetis (nereid) and Peleus (argonaut)

[Fener]

Mockra, on Jan 20 2009, 09:25 PM, said:

Fener, on Jan 20 2009, 09:16 PM, said:

Mockra, on Jan 20 2009, 09:13 PM, said:

well, yeah, it misses a large part of Ahilleus' story.
We get the resolution of the conflict between him and Hector, I believe, but his furthher great deeds (defeat of the Amazons, and then defeat of the Ethiopians, led by the son of Aurora, (Memnon, iirc) who ALSO posesses Hephestus-crafted armor), and his eventual death at the hands of Paris.... I never did understand why an arrow to the heel would prove lethal, since it's not like Paris used poison or anything...

Those events happened before the Trojan condom war. As his mother foretold, he never returned from the war. As for the arrow, I think it was more the symbolism of his weakness, rather than the actual physical improbability of dying from a shot to the heel that Homer was trying to convey. Of course, all they wore were sandals, so maybe he just got infected.

I beg to differ.
Achilleus got his Hephastos-forged armor after Partocles wore his armor on the tenth year of the war and got killed by Hector.
The episode with Memnon was all the more signifacant since both champions were fairly equal--Zeus had to weigh both their fates to determine the winner, with both Aurora and Fetide (sp?)
begging him to spare their son.

I was referring to the Amazon woman, but you do have a point about the armour.

[Emurlahn]

Also, I like Diomedes. He may be a jerk, but with Achilleus sitting out he is probably the best fighter the Greeks have. Plus he wounds Ares and Aphrodite.

[Mockra]

Emurlahn, on Jan 20 2009, 09:29 PM, said:

Also, I like Diomedes. He may be a jerk, but with Achilleus sitting out he is probably the best fighter the Greeks have. Plus he wounds Ares and Aphrodite.

what? no way

Ajax Thelamon, hands down for the best Greek fighter after Achilleus

ETA:, yeah, i always hated that. Trojans had Ares and Appolo on their side (i think Poseidon, too at one point)

Greeks just had Athene... and yet they've won.
it's all a femininist conspiracy, if you ask me,

This post has been edited by Mockra: 21 January 2009 - 02:33 AM

[Fener]

Mockra, on Jan 20 2009, 09:30 PM, said:

Emurlahn, on Jan 20 2009, 09:29 PM, said:

Also, I like Diomedes. He may be a jerk, but with Achilleus sitting out he is probably the best fighter the Greeks have. Plus he wounds Ares and Aphrodite.

what? no way

Ajax Thelamon, hands down for the best Greek fighter after Achilleus

Agreed. Dude was just too cool. Of course then he flipped out...Didn't he get smoted for that?

[Emurlahn]

From the intro in my book,

"Greatest of the warriors after Achilleus is Aias (Ajax the Greater). Homer is very firm about this, although Diomedes at times seems to surpass anything that Aias can do. Diomedes in his aristeia (one on one fights) fights under the protection of Athena, and Achilleus is constantly attended and favored by divinities; but Aias carries on, from beginning to end, without benefit of supernatural aid."

Seems to say that Diomedes is better because of gods intervening, but in terms of skill etc. Aias is better. So we are both right heh.

[Fener]

Mockra, on Jan 20 2009, 09:30 PM, said:

Emurlahn, on Jan 20 2009, 09:29 PM, said:

Also, I like Diomedes. He may be a jerk, but with Achilleus sitting out he is probably the best fighter the Greeks have. Plus he wounds Ares and Aphrodite.

what? no way

Ajax Thelamon, hands down for the best Greek fighter after Achilleus

ETA:, yeah, i always hated that. Trojans had Ares and Appolo on their side (i think Poseidon, too at one point)

Greeks just had Athene... and yet they've won.
it's all a femininist conspiracy, if you ask me,

Don't forget Hera. She was on Troy's side. Of course, despite having started the whole mess in the first place, Aphrodite eventually ends up on the Greeks side. Wishy washy bitch, neh?

*is smited down*

[Mockra]

I thought he was one of the few that actually survived?

lemme wiki it.. ah, right, he fought with odisseus over Achilleus' armor...and lost the public-speaking competition.
sigh

abck to Diomedeus: he also figures somewhat in the Theban cycle of myths.
his father was one of Athene's favourites. He died at the first siege of Thebes, as did the other 10 leaders (only 1 survived). the way it happened, he was dying, and Athena has already begged Zeus for permission to grant him immortality and received it nad was coming to deliver it to him, when one of the other kings threw him the body of the Theban than slayed him. Diomedeus' father then proceeded to bash his dead slayer's skull and feast on his brain. Disgusted, Athena smote him.

[Emurlahn]

um, Hera was supporting the Greeks. The whole conflict was started by the Jugdement of Paris, where he claims Aphrodite as the Fairest and gives her the golden apple. THe other two, Hera and Athena, are bitter about not being chosen so in most greek mythlogy you find Hera and Athena against Aphrodite.