[Meanas]

5 anonymous Users and a dead thread.

[Meanas]

Kessobahn, on Jan 20 2009, 03:44 PM, said:

Hmm, though Liosan's case is long and long and full of quotes. It hardly says much. Serc in essence plays much like I do, though with a slightly more scattered form of attack. Avoiding tunnel vision and questioning a lot of players is hardly a bad thing on day 1. It spurs reactions and creates discussion. Liosan's case is big, but in my opinion that's all it has going for it. Lacking focus is hardly a typical trait of neither killers nor symps, and the whole witch thing is just a question of fully understanding a new mechanic and the probability behind it.

Also, I don't like how quickly the votes have piled up. People whom I consider fishy have just been too eager to jump on.

so no, I won't vote for serc.

edit: cross post with several people, starting with Liosan

The case on Serc is a little bit more then he lacks focus with his posts. Your right lots of players lack focus when they are posting especially on day one. Serc not only has lacked focus but he has also made attempts to derail trains rather then just letting early ones die and he has tried to convince someone to use a game mechanic early in a game (so as to get it out of the way as quickly as possible). I stand by my vote.

[Galain]

This bullet train is concerning me as well. To me it points to one of two things. A watertight case (it's good, but not that good, and only exceptional in the context of being a day 1 case) or some scummers are sensing an opportunity. (I think it may be a good case plus scummers). I still think Serc is looking suspicious, but I'm going to withhold my vote for now, and will be back on before day end.

remove vote

If I have time I'm going to look at some jumpers.

[D'riss]

Meanas, on Jan 20 2009, 04:13 PM, said:

5 anonymous Users and a dead thread.

We've had nothing new to chew on for a while, so nothing to add atm.

[Path-Shaper]

It is day 1, 7 hours left in the day

23 players still playing, 12 votes to lynch, 12 votes for night


1 Vote Galain (Fener)
1 Vote Omtose (Kessobahn)
1 Vote Thyrllan (Mockra)
3 votes Mockra (Omtose, Shadow, Thyrllan)
8 Votes Serc (Liosan, Kaschan, D'riss, Anomandaris, Hood's Path, Meanas, Ruse, Rashan)


9 have not voted: Ampelas, Emurlahn, Galain, Galayn Lord, Gamelon, Korlat, Serc, Silanah, Tennes.

[Shadow]

I'm here and caught up.
1st.... can we slow down a tad? thats 9 votes with 7 hours to go. I agree that this has picked up steam rather quickly, possibly to quickly. But it does give us some time to examine where it's going/who's on it. Particularly, the last few hoppers on.

I do like Liosan's case, especially for a day 1 case. I have no problem voting Serc based on his case. I will be around until deadline and I want to hear from Serc so I will with hold my vote for now.

So right now we have a a vote train with 9 votes (Galain removed) I am going to go back and look at it. I want to examine the last few who have hopped on and Given it some steam. Actually, even is lynched and CF's inno this train will give us some good solid info to work with. Kudos on getting some discussion going Liosan.

Ok, off to look at the votes. Back in a bit.

[Emurlahn]

I'm awake and caught up. My early class got cancelled so sleep beckoned heh.

I feel this has been moving too fast. A day 1 lynch is good for info and what not, but we still have plenty of time. I'd like Serc to show up as well and talk to us. So I will hold my vote for now.

[Omtose]

Well now, that's an interesting train, especially since the whole 'I won't be back before the end of the day' thing has apparently started, and people start dumping their votes on Serc (Ruse).

A few more of those, and people will start seeing him as the 'inevitable' lynch. I wonder what Liosan will think of the effect of his case - it wasn't a bad one, a pretty decent one even for day 1, but to get 2/3s of the way to a lynch with 7 hours remaining is... special. I think he'll probably mutter something like 'sheep'... It certainly seems we have a crowd here that's easily led.

And that has the unfortunate side effect of probably having another round of 'lynching the high posters as they seek to mislead us!' tomorrow or the day after, whether induced by the killers or out of genuine fear and flock mentality

I'm not going to vote for Serc at this stage; I'll be around later, and I think he has plenty of votes for now.

[Galain]

I looked at a couple of people on the train, and I have some suspicions, but I need to look a little deeper and I don't have the time. I should still be back before day end, but I may not be able to look into some of the people I plan on looking into.

Laters.

[Ampelas]

Busy catching up - Slow internet is slow.my thoughts as to the role distribution, maybe this stuff is discussed and I havent read that far yet. I agree that the killers most likely number more than the cult. 4 killers 3 cult (including symps) does seem like a bit of a large - Dont know if there would be more that 6 scum total. Could easily be wrong though, if there's lots of roled innos. Do the necros get told if a recruit is successful? Not knowing their recruits or their creature would nerf them quite a lot I think.

[Fener]

The Serc train does worry me, but then again, I'm persuaded by the case that Liosan has a point. Now, if he's wrong, I think Liosan is probably a good lynch for tomorrow, but atm, I can't help but see his point. Now, I will wait for Serc to respond before I cast my vote, assuming he's on before night. I don't want to see day 2 dawn with no new info, so lynch somebody. Preferably somebody who has a logical case against them...

[Shadow]

Liosan, on Jan 20 2009, 02:47 AM, said:

Galain, on Jan 20 2009, 09:53 AM, said:

Hi Ruse!

I didn't mean you. Sorry to get you so worked up.

I was thinking in particular of whoever it was who voted based on the fact that Omtose used the word 'kill' rather than 'lynch'.

I think you may need to lighten up a little though.

I think people didn't pile in on Omtose because most people could see that it was a laughably weak case. This amazingly alternative hypothesis has several benefits. It explains why most people didn't vote for Omtose and pile on to the lynch, as well as why guilty people didn't do so (it's scummy to pile onto a non-case), and it even takes into account human stupidity (some people did actually try and pile on a bit). Classy and simple.

As for the whole question about the witch. It's an obvious trade-off between power and use. It becomes more powerful the further along in the game we go, but the witch's opportunity to use it is reduced every day, as there is potential for them to die. So, the witch must decide in their mind when the best time to use it is. Risk vs Reward. A very tactical decision for someone to make really.

Isn't it cute that you are defending the player you fake revealed killer with. For someone who is 'innocent', omtose certainly has a lot of people questioning those who voted for him 'fake' revealing. I make a point of disregarding wifom, if someone says they are going to kill on thread then i vote for them. When i called him out on it, he did it a few times after that with you, and laughed it off. Also crawling, the underlined section of that post above, is very disconcerting in mafia and reeks of over reaction. You poked ruse and he bit back hard and you seem to be scrambling by pushing attention elsewhere. Unluckily for you you pushed it toward me

I didnt remove my vote as I felt that omtose was suspicious and although he had no chance of being lynched at the time (it was 30 something hours left in day 1) i prefer action to just talk and if i say i am suspicious of someone i am going to vote for them. The defence by other players over the night and again this morning of another player because they are at L-8 has me wondering if disregarding him now is a mistake.

My main problem, not counting the loss of my quotes from this browser window (i think i had reply on your post not quote ), is that i think Serc is the most suspicious player today and during my read through i had originally discounted omtose as an attention grabbing player looking to off balance others, perhaps deliberately trying to draw a kill or to fake symp the killers i don't know. Anyway, Serc leapfrogged him to the top of my list with certain dubious posts.

I have a meeting soon, but i will make a case on serc then, in brief they seem to be pushing suspicion around the place and discussing innocent roles and forming strategies that roled innocents should follow on day 1 which is almost as bad as saying "if i die tonight".

remove vote

vote serc

I also got the distinct impression they were protecting players with timely accusations, i need to find the specific posts again. I will be back in hopefully half an hour to an hour with a short case on serc to back up my vote.

This is what gets it going, followed later by his case. iirc no one voted Serc until after the case.

Kaschan, on Jan 20 2009, 03:13 AM, said:

I've had a funny feeling about Serc after reading as well, mainly because of pushing for the witch to use the BP tonight, which struck me as odd, as it would virtually be pointless tonight.

vote Serc

I'm not sure though, so we'll see how he reacts.

Putting pressure, as well as agreeing with the case. Nothing fishy here.

Galain, on Jan 20 2009, 05:24 AM, said:

OK, I'll give them a chance... for now...

In that case, seeing as it probably would be unfair to lynch someone whose RL is stopping them from posting just over this period (or so I'm told) I'll look to lynch the person who I believe looks the most suspicious at the moment.

remove vote

vote Serc

I'd love to add more, but Liosan was pretty comprehensive for a day 1 case. Managed to convince me.

Really want's to lynch the low posters but sees the merits of Liosan's case. I agree low posters should go, but I usually like to wait till day 2. At that point its a pattern rather than random bad timing.

D'riss, on Jan 20 2009, 05:30 AM, said:

Liosian made some very good points there, for me specifically:

1. Identifying two possible sympers, I missed this on my catch up this morning
2. Pointing out Serc's re-direction of discussion to the necros and away from the killers
3. Encouraging the witch to use her BP tonight - I disagreed with this earlier but wasn't overtly suspicious
4. His defense of Omtose, who I will still be watching

All fairly innocent when looked at individually but add them all together and

Remove vote
Vote Serc

And some sterling work there Liosian

D'riss adds a vote and and gives his reasons. No problem here. At this point the train is really starting to pick up some steam. In the next hour and a half 5 votes go down in quick succession

Anomandaris, on Jan 20 2009, 06:05 AM, said:

The case on Serc does seem reasonable - I did notice that he seemed to be exaggerating the Necro threat somewhat. Having said that, he did initially convince me that using the Witch's BP on the first night was a good plan - there will be at least as many kills tonight as there will be on any other night in the game, so using it now will save the most people. But now you guys are looking at it from the point of view of getting another day with the same information, it would make sense that we use that do-over when enough information has come to light to cast suspicion on more than one player. Both are valid points of view from where I'm standing - I guess we'll just have to see which one the witch takes.

So while I'm not entirely convinced of all aspects of the case, all the other suggestions are very insubstantial.

Vote Serc

I want to hear a defence of some sort before the lynch though.

Wants a defense, isn't convinced (granted its day 1..it would take a miracle to convince), but still drops a vote. This only makes it 5 on the train, but thats slightly odd.

Hood's Path, on Jan 20 2009, 06:53 AM, said:

Morning all! Just finished catching up.

I didn't really look closely enough at Serc until Liosan pulled everything together. None of his statements are terribly damning initially but put them back to back like that and they start to look less offhanded. He mentioned the witch using her BP on day one several times. It seems a bit early to me to be pushing this kind of action. Why not use it later on when numbers are a bit more of a factor? I think he was pushing to use it now and get it out of the way while it would do the least harm. I don't see any real advantage in repeating day one.

I'm not one hundred percent convinced, but this case seems much stronger than the one that was being built against Omtose.

vote serc

This vote seems to me like a Scum like Pile on vote. He basically Parrots everything that has already been said, is wishy washy with his reasoning, and drops a vote (the 6th) that really starts this train rolling.

Meanas, on Jan 20 2009, 07:21 AM, said:

Ok I am all caught up. Nice case on Serc Liosan. Saved me the trouble. I agree that several of his posts stand out as questionable behavior. Some of his posts you could toss up to game mechanics. But when you look at everything at once especially his redirection from killers to necro it seems like he is a killer trying to take out his main competition.


Vote Serc

This post is also a tad suspicious, "saved me the trouble" sounds lazy. Killing killers that kill are lazy to, cause all they have to do is kill. Though I do agree with him on the Necro redirection.

Ruse, on Jan 20 2009, 07:30 AM, said:

Ah...in that case

Remove vote
Vote Serc

I am leaving now and wont be back untill long after night comes.
Still need 4 votes so there is allot of room to breath.

Pile on vote. no reasons given. Unless I missed an earlier post giving reasons this seems suspicious. At least say " Dropping a vote to get info from a lynch" give us something.

Rashan, on Jan 20 2009, 07:44 AM, said:

Liosan, on Jan 20 2009, 03:39 PM, said:

Sorry for the lack of posts today but I am getting really slammed in work.

I am quite nervous by how quickly the train has grown though. That is eight votes and serc hasn't had a chance to respond to any of the points made against him. I believe we still have quite a long time left today, but as i am unsure if i will be on later i am leaving my vote where it is. Could someone who will be on closer to the deadline and has voted remove temporarily? Or at least can i urge patience until Serc speaks and is given a chance to address the points i made.

I read your case and I guess its the best we have, unless a shot in the dark lynch comes up. I agree that the train is large, but its pretty late in the day and Serc is a reasonable target. I am going to add my vote since I won't be around at all.

Vote Serc

Back when i get the chance.

This is the second most suspicious. We still have 6-7 hours at this point with 14 players able to vote. I guess if you want a lynch and won't be around.... but if Galain hadn't removed he would be sitting at L-3. there is a lot of time left and people have said they will be around to lynch .


So to me the HP, Meanas and Rashan votes seem the most suspicious. If we do get a serc lynch and he CF's inno I would start there as people to look at

[Thyrllan]

Some of the votes just seem to say "I agree with liosan".
Im around for a while, and i'll vote serc if I need, but i'd like to hear his say, and a lot of the stuff doesn't strike me as suspicious, although he comes off as quite suspicious when taken as a whole.

Not going to vote just yet.

[Ampelas]

Righty, caught up. Debate of the day is Liosan's case, which has a lot of merit. Like a couple of people before me though, I agree that there's still lots of time. I think that enough people have said they will be around, but havent voted, that we have the numbers for a lynch, should we run out of time/think Serc's defense isnt good enough.

[Anomandaris]

Hmm...I still want that defence from Serc. Until I get it or it's getting close to decision time and it's still no show, I think I'll give him some breathing room. I'll be back before the deadline, don't worry.

Remove Vote

[D'riss]

I was hoping Serc would turn up before I have to leave, but never mind. If I can get my stoopid phone to connect might be back later.

[Ampelas]

I agree Shadow, those votes do stand out, especially Rashan's since his came after people started to express a bit of worry regarding the speed of the train. Then again, he also states that he wont be around. Voting before you leave isnt scummy in and of itself, but was it really necessary at that point?

[Ampelas]

Also, I'm not sure how much info slow/stalled trains will give us, since the killers or cult on their own possess much of a voting block (although the cult might have one later in the game). Obvious defense/distraction on a train that eventually results in a scum lynch, but the fact that the other scum faction will most likely still be on any train means we'll have slightly less information.

[Meanas]

Shadow, on Jan 20 2009, 05:25 PM, said:

Hi Ruse!

Meanas, on Jan 20 2009, 07:21 AM, said:

Ok I am all caught up. Nice case on Serc Liosan. Saved me the trouble. I agree that several of his posts stand out as questionable behavior. Some of his posts you could toss up to game mechanics. But when you look at everything at once especially his redirection from killers to necro it seems like he is a killer trying to take out his main competition.


Vote Serc

This post is also a tad suspicious, "saved me the trouble" sounds lazy. Killing killers that kill are lazy to, cause all they have to do is kill. Though I do agree with him on the Necro redirection.

So to me the HP, Meanas and Rashan votes seem the most suspicious. If we do get a serc lynch and he CF's inno I would start there as people to look at

Well I can defend my vote and since your suspicioun seems to be that I was lazy. I will defend that too.
I had logged in finally after missing all of yesterday gone through and read the thread. When I read the thread I click the quote of any suspicious posts. While I was going through the posts that I had clicked (most of whom were Sercs) I started to write up a case against him. Then I refreshed the thread to see what had been said while I was reading and compiling and Liosan had already made a case against my primary suspect. So my Save me the trouble was the fact that after reading Liosans case I didn't have to go through and make mine. I am going to leave my vote were it is. I was only going to move it if Serc got to l-2 before he could defend himself. Since that isn't going to happen then my vote can stay on my day one suspect.

[Mockra]

hmm, interesting, good job Shadow
of all these votes, I dislike Hood's Path's the most, I think.