[Serc]

Meanas, on Jan 20 2009, 03:21 PM, said:

Ok I am all caught up. Nice case on Serc Liosan. Saved me the trouble. I agree that several of his posts stand out as questionable behavior. Some of his posts you could toss up to game mechanics. But when you look at everything at once especially his redirection from killers to necro it seems like he is a killer trying to take out his main competition.


Vote Serc

I know, I know, OMGUS, but I'm looking at my train because I know there's scum on it. Now, one thing about this. As I mentioned above, we've had killers so many times its pointless to talk about them. The Cult are essentially Killers with optional Cult power, making them more dangerous than normal Killers, and I stand by this.

Meanas, on Jan 20 2009, 03:43 PM, said:

Liosan, on Jan 20 2009, 03:39 PM, said:

Sorry for the lack of posts today but I am getting really slammed in work.

I am quite nervous by how quickly the train has grown though. That is eight votes and serc hasn't had a chance to respond to any of the points made against him. I believe we still have quite a long time left today, but as i am unsure if i will be on later i am leaving my vote where it is. Could someone who will be on closer to the deadline and has voted remove temporarily? Or at least can i urge patience until Serc speaks and is given a chance to address the points i made.

I should be on and if we get to 10 votes and Serc still hasn't been on to defend himself then I will remove my vote till the deadline.

He seems to have disappeared. Although its still early, his reason for voting tickled me, and I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't return by the deadline.

Meanas, on Jan 20 2009, 04:18 PM, said:

Kessobahn, on Jan 20 2009, 03:44 PM, said:

Hmm, though Liosan's case is long and long and full of quotes. It hardly says much. Serc in essence plays much like I do, though with a slightly more scattered form of attack. Avoiding tunnel vision and questioning a lot of players is hardly a bad thing on day 1. It spurs reactions and creates discussion. Liosan's case is big, but in my opinion that's all it has going for it. Lacking focus is hardly a typical trait of neither killers nor symps, and the whole witch thing is just a question of fully understanding a new mechanic and the probability behind it.

Also, I don't like how quickly the votes have piled up. People whom I consider fishy have just been too eager to jump on.

so no, I won't vote for serc.

edit: cross post with several people, starting with Liosan

The case on Serc is a little bit more then he lacks focus with his posts. Your right lots of players lack focus when they are posting especially on day one. Serc not only has lacked focus but he has also made attempts to derail trains rather then just letting early ones die and he has tried to convince someone to use a game mechanic early in a game (so as to get it out of the way as quickly as possible). I stand by my vote.

What train did I derail? And look, at this point I'm just going to make a fucking case for using the Witch BP so people understand where I'm coming from, FFS

[Serc]

Right- For Using the Witches BP on Night One, when I ask it- It basically gives us a free day. We're still going to have the first train to go by, but we will also have no loss of innos. Also, because its been asked for, we won't waste any vigs through it, which could be handy.
Against- Its not enough of a "numbers" risk. Tbh, the game is probably going to play out the same way either way. We have no guarantee of getting the killers or cult by Day Three, and we also have to take into account that they can also nk each other.
So, the way I see it, more of us there is, more chance of a Cult Recruit, more chance of an inno being hit with an nk, and the later the use of the BP, the more wasteful it is to the chance of a vig or nk hitting scum.

[Shadow]

I can see both sides.

If witch uses early on, then she has more of a chance to block the Necro's powers. as the Necro's get to choose 3 possible NK's tonight. this gives the witch on day 1, 2 the biggest chance to stop the cult from spreading. After day 2 (given worst case scenario) the Necro's can only choose 2 possible NK's to recruit.

If the Witch uses the power later on, she has more of a chance of affecting the end game, BUT also more of a chance not to be around. after the second night there will be a minimum of 6 players down, assuming 2 lynch, 2nk, and 2 creature hits. so the witch has a 74% chance of surviving past day 2.

I guess its up to the witch, but I certainly see the merits for both sides and def. don't find it inherently scummy to see the merits of using it early.

EDIT Cross with Serc

This post has been edited by Shadow: 20 January 2009 - 07:14 PM

[Serc]

Thank you. I am fucking pissed off that some of the argument seems to based on my discussion of how best to use a bloody mechanic, it stinks of scum.

Right, now, I'm off to dinner. Back in half an hour.

[Anomandaris]

Serc, on Jan 20 2009, 06:36 PM, said:

This is a completely bullshit case, and I'm amazed its managed to sway innos. If you read over this, you will notice that his only arguments are based on not liking how I play, disliking my advice given to the Witch, and also misunderstanding the word "annoy". Christ almighty, half of those posts were saying he mostly agreed with me lol. If I get lynched for that, I'm going to be fucking pissed.

The rest of your defence I could just about accept, but this did not convince me. The case is NOT completely bullshit - certainly there are parts of it that are weak to the point of being meaningless, but at its core there are your persistant attempts to magnify the perceived threat posed by the Necros. It does not do to dismiss something like this out of hand - reacting with anger makes you look, in my eyes, to be more guilty. Be rational, reasonable, and address everything as best you can, and you'd go some way to redeeming yourself in my eyes.


Vote Serc

[Hood's Path]

After actually hearing Serc explain his rationale behind using the BP on the first night, it makes much more sense to me. It is the most effective way to limit the Necros, would give the innos more of a chance by virtue of the greater numbers. I'm satisfied with the rest of his explanation as well.

Remove Vote

[Korlat]

Vote Serc


Not just on the strength of Liosan's case, but on the response to it. Namely, a modest amount of votes build up, and we suddenly have a couple of people running in saying "Whoa! We're going way too fast here." And you know what? This train isn't particularly fast when you take into account how many people there are. Those statements feel a lot like deflecting and defense of a leader.

And, uh:

Serc said:

The case has gathered far too much steam for my liking, actually.

That's a bizarre case of stating the obvious, especially when it echoes an inaccurate argument by possible Symps.

If he turns out to be scum, we've got our entire Symp-crew nailed, right there, and probably the other killer.

[Hood's Path]

Anomandaris, on Jan 20 2009, 11:17 AM, said:

Serc, on Jan 20 2009, 06:36 PM, said:

This is a completely bullshit case, and I'm amazed its managed to sway innos. If you read over this, you will notice that his only arguments are based on not liking how I play, disliking my advice given to the Witch, and also misunderstanding the word "annoy". Christ almighty, half of those posts were saying he mostly agreed with me lol. If I get lynched for that, I'm going to be fucking pissed.

The rest of your defence I could just about accept, but this did not convince me. The case is NOT completely bullshit - certainly there are parts of it that are weak to the point of being meaningless, but at its core there are your persistant attempts to magnify the perceived threat posed by the Necros. It does not do to dismiss something like this out of hand - reacting with anger makes you look, in my eyes, to be more guilty. Be rational, reasonable, and address everything as best you can, and you'd go some way to redeeming yourself in my eyes.


Vote Serc

Although I've removed my vote I will agree with Anomandaris in regards to your anger. Even if you are pissed you would have been better served by jsut laying out the facts of your argument. While the use BP on day 1 was a big factor for me, there were other people who had some legitimate questions. You didn't adress alot of those questions/suspicions in your response.

[Serc]

Right, I might or might not be lynched yet, but I'd like my Train to be examined well.
Because, Korlat, no one is that fucking obvious.

[Path-Shaper]

It is day 1, 4 hours left in the day

23 players still playing, 12 votes to lynch, 12 votes for night


1 Vote Galain (Fener)
1 Vote Emurlahn (Kessobahn)
1 Vote Thyrllan (Mockra)
3 votes Mockra (Omtose, Shadow, Thyrllan)
8 Votes Serc (Liosan, Kaschan, D'riss, Meanas, Ruse, Rashan, Anomandaris, Korlat)


9 have not voted: Ampelas, Emurlahn, Galain, Galayn Lord, Gamelon, Hood's Path, Serc, Silanah, Tennes.

[Serc]

Nice how I get votes when I go. Well, now Im back Ill look over the other "cases" and address them, if that's what is desired.

[Serc]

Oh, alright, I'm on eight, jesus I thought I was much higher. My apologies. I have plenty of time, so yeah Ill look over everything.

[Korlat]

Serc, on Jan 20 2009, 11:27 AM, said:

Right, I might or might not be lynched yet, but I'd like my Train to be examined well.
Because, Korlat, no one is that fucking obvious.

Actually, yeah, sometimes they are. Your statement that "things are moving too fast for my taste" regarding a lynch train on you, for example. And if you're a Killer with noob Symps, well ... my condolences.

And yes, if you get lynched and come up Inno, the train will be examined just as closely as if you come up Killer. Liosan, for starters, will have a big bull's-eye painted on him.

[Serc]

Ok, seriously, I can see no argument other than the one of Liosan's, which I responded to, the fact that I don't have any "definate scum" in my mind in Day One, which really isn't evidence of anything, if someone says something on Day One which seems suspicious and then says something that redeems tham, and someone else says/acts more suspiciously, your list changes. The Witch argument has been done to death, I've backed up my case here.
With regards to the necros, I noticed a few people agreeing.
I also notice a few people who tossed their votes out there despite not being wholly convinced. I don't really like that, it just, for me, highlights the lack of strength on my case, and that people can't see a better target, so they'll toss votes on it.
Shadow's blow-by-blow of my case was quite good.
That's pretty much all I can say in my defence, there really isn't that much to defend against.

[Serc]

Korlat, on Jan 20 2009, 07:34 PM, said:

Serc, on Jan 20 2009, 11:27 AM, said:

Right, I might or might not be lynched yet, but I'd like my Train to be examined well.
Because, Korlat, no one is that fucking obvious.

Actually, yeah, sometimes they are. Your statement that "things are moving too fast for my taste" regarding a lynch train on you, for example. And if you're a Killer with noob Symps, well ... my condolences.

And yes, if you get lynched and come up Inno, the train will be examined just as closely as if you come up Killer. Liosan, for starters, will have a big bull's-eye painted on him.

Well, do good on that, because last time I asked for my train to be examined, the guys on it who I cast suspicion on the time, who were killers, got off scot-free despite my inno CF.

[Serc]

As for my persistant efforts to magnify the necro threat, Ano, I can't remember them being persistent. If anything, I can remember mentioning it maybe twice, and the simple fact is, they are more of a threat in my eyes. They are killers who can swap their kill power to get another symp. I'd rather just normal killers, cus at least when one of them is gone, we don't have to worry about them being replaced.

[Shadow]

On a side note: Should Gamelon be Modkilled? He hasn't posted once and rules state 24 hrs between posts.

[Serc]

Rules are 36, I thought?

[Path-Shaper]

It's actually 36 hours, we forgot to edit the rules

[Shadow]

okie