[HoosierDaddy]

Lisheo, on Jan 13 2009, 09:30 PM, said:

Well, who would be of significant interest for a millenia old mage to raise?
An interesting question.

Thus the curiosity...

[Lisheo]

Obviously, he's the Tyrant... and the Child of Indescribable Terror.

[HoosierDaddy]

Lisheo, on Jan 13 2009, 09:44 PM, said:

Obviously, he's the Tyrant... and the Child of Indescribable Terror.

I know you meant that facetiously...(can't help myself!!!!) but he can't be the Tyrant cause he's leaving to find Not-Apsalar so they can make little-uns, or go kill the T'lan Imass that tried to kill Crokus.

Since SE has given us no reason to speculate as to his lineage, I don't think it's worth following, but it is still pretty strange.

This post has been edited by HoosierDaddy: 14 January 2009 - 02:47 AM

[Lisheo]

Well, SE has said before that he didn't like the character of Crokus originally, and only wrote him into GotM to give readers someone to identify with and be able to understand, so I wouldn't be surprised if he really was just an ordinary fellow, while Mammoltean was the typical old advisor who turned out to be an ancient supermage... In fact, I would think Brys and the Ceda are essentially counterpart characters to help readers ease themselves into MT.
I agree, it's probably not worth reading into, if SE had intended for us to find out, we would have in TtH. No doubt SE knows who his parents are, but I'd say over the evolution of the series it became irrelevant to his character development.
Or he could be Coll's son.

[HoosierDaddy]

Disagree with the Ceda. While I love him, he is kinda hard to read as a character at first... like Kruppe or Pust... the complicated and complex dialogue characters. But the more you read him, the more you like him.

This post has been edited by HoosierDaddy: 14 January 2009 - 02:59 AM

[Lisheo]

That is true he was one of my favourite characters, actually. But he did work as a guide for Brys, and also a sense of humour(One of my favourite quotes from the series-Brys- "How long does it take for the potion to take effect?"
Ceda- "What potion?"), and as I personally found Brys the easiest character to identify with on my first read, I'd see him as the character designed to ease you into the story.

[Ain't_It_Just_]

I'd agree...in MT the other Palace dwellers were the "factions" jockeying for position. He helped further the Guardian/Mael/ancient demon storyline.

[Soth]

I always thought the girl was just anormal Talon, send there by Amaron to scout.
And didn't the Talons use Dancer's fighting style, hence the recognition?
And didn't Baudin tell in DG that he was trained by his father to be a Talon?
So, I think she's a Talon.

[foolio]

Quote

QUOTE
As for Topper. You didn\'t expect the former leader of the claw to be good?


Yeah I guess I didnt expect him to be that good. I figured he would be about like Amaron , who we saw go out like a chump. And the entire series, we seem to be getting conditioned to cringe when we hear Cowls name, not so with Topper.

Also we were told that Apsalar and Kalam just absolutely devastated the Claw in BH. Now they seem to be limitless and more numerous than ever. I also thought topper was Claw master by default. Kalam refuses, Dancer ascends, and I would not think Surly would not want an extremely powerful clawmaster , afterall she knows better than anyone how close that is to power. Also we see Pearl running things and he is kind of a chump and a coward....

Quote

Amaron got killed by Ryllandaras who also took out Rell and thousands of other people in the story. Not exactly chump-territory

not to be overly arguemenative but I did see this as chump territory. He led the Talon, so he should be about equal to Laseen or Topper, as they led the claw. He offered NO worthwhile intelligence, had no assasins doing anything to help his side win. If you think about it, ythe talian league loss to Laseen and Korbolo Dom was due to a major failure of intelligence. Let me stress again, he offered NOTHING to his side. Rylandaras was a tough nut to crack, however, Rell, a Seguleh of unknown Rank, but clearly not a high rank, stood toe to toe with Rylandaras for hours until the beast wore down and left. It is also insinuated that Moss stood toe to toe with Rylandaras and walks away. So amaron joins the fight against Rylandaras after misserably failing his job as head of espionage for the Talian league , takes one swipe from Rylandaras and is dead. I personaly think this qualifies as going out like a chump...

This post has been edited by foolio: 14 January 2009 - 03:51 PM

[amphibian]

foolio, on Jan 14 2009, 10:50 AM, said:

not to be overly arguemenative but I did see this as chump territory. He led the Talon, so he should be about equal to Laseen or Topper, as they led the claw. He offered NO worthwhile intelligence, had no assasins doing anything to help his side win. If you think about it, ythe talian league loss to Laseen and Korbolo Dom was due to a major failure of intelligence. Let me stress again, he offered NOTHING to his side. Rylandaras was a tough nut to crack, however, Rell, a Seguleh of unknown Rank, but clearly not a high rank, stood toe to toe with Rylandaras for hours until the beast wore down and left. It is also insinuated that Moss stood toe to toe with Rylandaras and walks away. So amaron joins the fight against Rylandaras after misserably failing his job as head of espionage for the Talian league , takes one swipe from Rylandaras and is dead. I personaly think this qualifies as going out like a chump...

Yet Ameron knew that the Crimson Guard would be coming, knew exactly where Laseen and the army were at all times, where the main assassin plots and players would be and managed to keep Ghelel, the figurehead, safe throughout the book. I thought he did pretty well as a spymaster. It's not his fault that his side couldn't win it. Ryllandaras also killed Rell (possibly Liss too) and took down Temper, Sweetgrass, Urko and all the others who fought him.

The loss to the Empire's forces could be better attributed to the Seti leaving the field and turning the battle into an infantry slugfest and the Moranths' strangely stupid insistence on carrying munitions within the formation.

Rell was a rising star in the Seguleh ranks. He was good. Remember: Rell chose to dispute a ruling instead of accepting it and then ascending even farther. We don't have any other observable Seguleh-Seguleh fights to suss out his abilities, but I'd consider him pretty good. Maybe not Mok territory, but pretty good.

[HoosierDaddy]

Amphibian said that pretty well for me.

You say:

Quote

He led the Talon, so he should be about equal to Laseen or Topper, as they led the claw.

Yet, we know that the Claw decimated the Talon after/before (don't remember the time) Dancer ascended. Thus, it would make sense that the claw were probably better assassins. Laseen had no equal other than Dancer. I see the Talon as more of an intelligence agency than a secret police which the Claw were/are.

[Ain't_It_Just_]

I bet that the Claw were better (assuming they were) because they external, as Heboric or Baudin once said. They could break the rules.

[foolio]

Quote

I bet that the Claw were better (assuming they were) because they external, as Heboric or Baudin once said.

Oh Baudin, Ameron could have really used you in this one, too bad you had to die protecting that rotten bitch Felisin...

[Ain't_It_Just_]

I wonder when it was that Baudin began to think "OK, this is getting out of hand."...

[foolio]

Quote

I wonder when it was that Baudin began to think "OK, this is getting out of hand."...

Probably about 5 seconds after he banged her...

[amphibian]

Ain't_It_Just_, on Jan 17 2009, 01:52 AM, said:

I wonder when it was that Baudin began to think "OK, this is getting out of hand."...

When the ship rowed by decapitated corpses passed through a circle of magical fire?

Well, at least he didn't lose his head and protected Felisin throughout that ordeal.

[Sinisdar Toste]

baudin was wasted on that little prig, but i guess we all knew that

[Ain't_It_Just_]

Please...stop hating on Felisin.

Otherwise I make break into a psychotic rage and fill the next 5 pages with Felisin-hate. And we wouldn't want that, would we Apt?