[polishgenius]

I thought, despite the occasional awkward insert (and the beginning of the ruination of the Angels with 'walk like you can see'), that Season 5 was great and the best season of new who so far.
It started to go wrong with the too-busy first episodes of season 6- great moments in the Silence, but could have been a whole four-five episode arc on its own, and the same was true of A Good Man Goes to War which should have been a double episode- and then proceeded to unravel big-time stylee as he wrote more and more of River Song.

I think that's my biggest issue with his reign. River Song's first few appearances were awesome. By the time she left, she resembled the character she'd originally been in almost no respect.

[QuickTidal]

polishgenius, on 02 May 2017 - 04:32 PM, said:

I thought, despite the occasional awkward insert (and the beginning of the ruination of the Angels with 'walk like you can see'), that Season 5 was great and the best season of new who so far.
It started to go wrong with the too-busy first episodes of season 6- great moments in the Silence, but could have been a whole four-five episode arc on its own, and the same was true of A Good Man Goes to War which should have been a double episode- and then proceeded to unravel big-time stylee as he wrote more and more of River Song.

I think that's my biggest issue with his reign. River Song's first few appearances were awesome. By the time she left, she resembled the character she'd originally been in almost no respect.

Oh, Season 5 is also my fave of the New Who seasons...but I just think the Crack/Silence Arc is terribly shoe-horned in. Everything else about S5 is pretty much gold to me. It's the most re-watchable season in my books.

In fact, THE ELEVENTH HOUR is pretty much what I'd call a perfect hour of DOCTOR WHO, and I've re-watched that ep like 20 times by now.

[QuickTidal]

KNOCK KNOCK was easily the first episode I actively liked this season so far as a complete episode.

It felt like Old School Doctor Who to me. Bill didn’t annoy me as much this episode…and funnily enough the Doctor spent most of the episode with one of the newly introduced characters. I enjoyed the concept, and even the mild twist at the end.

I’m still annoyed by Bill…the Doctor is sticking around at the house…there’s PROBABLY a reason above and beyond “just wanting to hang out” Bill…get a fucking clue. Ugh. It takes her far too long to sort this out…and Clara or Amy would have been all about him sticking around.

Anyone else notice that the Beeb have seemingly cut the budget back enough that it’s begun to look less like Smith’s tenure under Moffat, and more like the RTD/Tennant era from a “quality of digital video” perspective? My wife and I both noticed this fact especially in this episode. Not that I’m complaining mind you…such things never bothered me, but it’s worth noting.

Next week’s ep looks like a cracker.

[polishgenius]

That was better. First really strong episode of the season for me.


Also: Doctor Who sneaking in hardcore left-wing ideas in the guise of children's entertainment. Not just 'capitalism is bad' but

Spoiler

capitalists can be defeated if you threaten to blow up all their shit.

[Gorefest]

I can't really find myself in a lot of the complaints stated above. In fact, I feel they totally miss the point on so many levels.
You guys seem to forget that Dr Who is supposed to be a family show, aimed in a large part at kids/teens. The whole premise of the show has always been, since its very inception, 'hide behind the couch scary but with a feel-good ending so you can come out of hiding again'. This is not a show for sci-fi die hards. If you ask me, the level of horror and adultness of the show (especially in the past few episodes, actually) is already pushing the boat out in an impressive way.
Screw plotholes, screw 'bleak endings ruined by happy second endings', that is not what this show is about. The bleak bits are there to keep the parents interested and the happy endings are there to send the kids to bed with a smile. This is not a sci-fi variant of Game of Thrones and it never was supposed to be. That is not its target audience. You are not the target audience, sorry to break the news. You cannot judge the show by the same standards that you would use for a Breaking Bad, a GoT or a Malazan Book of the Fallen.
If you say that your kid rather plays on their Xbox than watch the latest episode of Dr Who because they find it boring, then there is a problem. Any other measuring stick is irrelevant.

[polishgenius]

The idea that a show should get a free pass for being lower quality because it's aimed, in whole or part, at younger viewers is patronising as hell. I mean, you can fob younger audiences off with lesser quality to an extent, but that doesn't mean you should. Neither me nor QT complained about the writing not being as dark as GoT or Breaking Bad- we complained at the writing not being good.

[QuickTidal]

polishgenius, on 14 May 2017 - 10:38 PM, said:

The idea that a show should get a free pass for being lower quality because it's aimed, in whole or part, at younger viewers is patronising as hell. I mean, you can fob younger audiences off with lesser quality to an extent, but that doesn't mean you should. Neither me nor QT complained about the writing not being as dark as GoT or Breaking Bad- we complained at the writing not being good.

^^This.

Also, I've been a fan of this show since I WAS a kid...so I'll wager I can at least come at my views of it from a valid place.

There's lots of bad writing in Moffat's tenure, and RTD's tenure too...but when it's offset by utter BRILLIANCE (BLINK, THE GIRL IN THE FIREPLACE, MIDNIGHT, THE ELEVENTH HOUR)...the really drudgy stuff stands out. Right? Like my question is...why do we let the bad stuff get a pass (because: family show/kids don't care)...when a show and writer CAN serve up such blissfully excellent writing in the same season?

--------------

OXYGEN was not a very good episode either (which sucks cause Jaime Matheison penned my fave ep of S8 with the Mummy). I mean it was okay and proper scary...but not caring about Bill as a character means the denouement fell flat for me, and Nardole is becoming a pain in the arse character. The revelation here was...a surprise but...

Spoiler

a Time Lord can survive the vacuum of space and all that happens is he goes blind? That's a strange and kind of forced plot strand..and knowing Moffat was inserted for a reason (a not so subtle one)...which makes it kind of feel weak?

I dunno. My wife (who LURVES Doctor Who) turned to me when we watched the most recent episode and said "This season really kind sucks so far" which is a fairly grand statement from her...and to be honest...I have to somewhat agree (probably not as strongly as she has said). Compared with S9 this one has fallen quite flat. I kind of like Pilot, and Knock, Knock...Didn't' like Emoji's one or Oxygen...and had narrative issues with Thin Ice....so it's not exactly batting a thousand with me.

At this point, I think we are just waiting for Moffat to end and for Chibnall to give us something fresh.

[Gorefest]

I guess it partly boils down to personal preferences. Personally I could not stand Clara (Jenna Coleman), so I think Bill is a breath of fresh air whose character feels far more engaging, funny and relatable than expressionless dullness Clara. But of course if a companion doesn't sit well, it is going to have a big impact on your enjoyment of the show. RTD was really good at grand and fantastic storylines but rubbish at decent endings. Moffat seems to like things a lot more dark and mysterious, but storylines tend to get rather confusing and jumbled.

[QuickTidal]

Gorefest, on 15 May 2017 - 02:27 PM, said:

I guess it partly boils down to personal preferences. Personally I could not stand Clara (Jenna Coleman), so I think Bill is a breath of fresh air whose character feels far more engaging, funny and relatable than expressionless dullness Clara.

Indeed. And I think that's the glory of such varied companions. Everyone is going to get ones they like and those they don't. I just hope I like the next companion more than Bill.

Also, I think Clara was good under Eleven...and to for Twelve's first season....but after that she nosedived into the ground for me where I'm glad she's gone.

[QuickTidal]

Next Volume of the Tenth Doctor Adventures Audio from Big Finish is going to feature Rose Tyler (Billie Piper), and Jackie (Camilla Coduri)! So exciting!

[Blend]

QuickTidal, on 15 May 2017 - 03:26 PM, said:

Also, I think Clara was good under Eleven...and to for Twelve's first season....but after that she nosedived into the ground for me where I'm glad she's gone.

Really? I thought the only good Clara/Eleven episode was the Souffle Girl one. The rest I could take or leave. She wasn't really a real character it seemed until after the whole Great Intelligence thing.

Whereas her last season, in my opinion, was her best. The actress did a great job, and the story arc - I'm basically just as good as the Doctor, but destined to die, which will push the Doctor to do something that he would never have done before - was brilliant. The season you're talking about is the "I'm pregnant with Danny Pink's child but we're gonna pretend that never happened because reasons..." which was, in my opinion, her worst. Her entire character revolved around her "does she or doesn't she love him" thing with Danny Pink.

But I mean, we obviously have different tastes because I'm enjoying Bill and Nardole quite a bit!

This post has been edited by Blend: 16 May 2017 - 06:58 PM

[QuickTidal]

So who wants to start the "ripping apart" of this eps logic first?

And you all know me...I let a LOT of inconsistent internal logic stuff go for "story"....but jeezus the glaring shit in this is too badly written to not comment on....

So I'll start:

The lock that presented the Doctor with an "I'm going to die" situation, which in turn causes Bill to make a world-changing idiotic decision to set up Part 3 next week....is based on the idea that a combination lock in a lab (arguably, the most insecure and SHITTY lab in the WORLD) doesn't have Braille...a mandatory thing it would have had. But that too easily solves the main hitch of this episode...so they pretend it doesn't/wouldn't have that feature. For comparison...I think the fucking bike lock I bought for about $7....has Braille on the damned numbers.

Who else wants a go?

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 29 May 2017 - 05:30 PM

[polishgenius]

The lock thing did bug me, but I'll be willing to forgive it if next week's episode pays off.


The rest of the plot holes weren't anything new for Who, and mostly revolve about how an enemy of such ridiculous power can exist without the Doctor ever having come across them before. And there was a lot to like, too. Although it did make me laugh a bit to realise that Moffat has almost certainly regretted ruining the Silence so spectacularly and decided to come up with an enemy in the same vague vein to enact something resembling his original plan for them before he leaves...

[QuickTidal]

polishgenius, on 29 May 2017 - 06:44 PM, said:

The lock thing did bug me, but I'll be willing to forgive it if next week's episode pays off.


The rest of the plot holes weren't anything new for Who, and mostly revolve about how an enemy of such ridiculous power can exist without the Doctor ever having come across them before. And there was a lot to like, too. Although it did make me laugh a bit to realise that Moffat has almost certainly regretted ruining the Silence so spectacularly and decided to come up with an enemy in the same vague vein to enact something resembling his original plan for them before he leaves...

They do feel VERY much like the Silence, you're bang on right for that feeling...and are even played by the same actor in fact!

[polishgenius]

Well, can't say that that paid off. What a load of nonsense. Just following fakeout with fakeout.

[QuickTidal]

Yeah, that was mostly garbage. I feel like spreading the 3parts out to 3 writers...one of whom was Toby Whithouse...was a mistake, cause it was a WEAK ass trilogy.

Hopefully next week is better.

I met Paul McGann today, so that makes me happy!

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 05 June 2017 - 12:48 AM

[Coco with marshmallows]

anyone else starting to get bothered by how often "love saves the day" is being used in Dr Who of late?

[QuickTidal]

Coco with marshmallows, on 05 June 2017 - 08:35 PM, said:

anyone else starting to get bothered by how often "love saves the day" is being used in Dr Who of late?

It's a big Moffat-ism. Hell, RTD didn't use it nearly as much as I've seen it show up during Moffats tenure. And we KNOW he's vetting all the scripts...as evidenced by all his non subtle co-writing credits.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 05 June 2017 - 11:08 PM

[Tsundoku]

Coco with marshmallows, on 05 June 2017 - 08:35 PM, said:

anyone else starting to get bothered by how often "love saves the day" is being used in Dr Who of late?

It's because NuWho is more overly melodramatic than the original series.

This post has been edited by Tsundoku: 06 June 2017 - 01:26 AM

[QuickTidal]

Tsundoku, on 06 June 2017 - 01:26 AM, said:

Coco with marshmallows, on 05 June 2017 - 08:35 PM, said:

anyone else starting to get bothered by how often "love saves the day" is being used in Dr Who of late?

It's because NuWho is more overly melodramatic than the original series.

See, but I would argue that RTD RARELY fell into the "love saves the day" trope, even though he loved melodrama.

Let's look at it objectively tho

Series 1 - the only time this happens is THE EMTPY CHILD and THE DOCTOR DANCES two-parter...written by....you guessed it. Steven Moffat.

Series 2 - No "loves saves the day" resolutions.

Series 3 - The only one here that can be construed as that type of resolution would be THE LAST OF THE TIME LORDS....since Martha's year abroad has basically made everyone "care" about the Doctor and "believe" in him to restore him to power and allow him to defeat the Master.

Series 4 - SILENCE IN THE LIBRARY and FOREST OF THE DEAD...bot written by...you guessed it. Steven Moffat.

Series (Specials) - No "loves saves the day" resolutions.

So out of all RTD's tenure, he's responsible for it once...and Moffat is responsible for it twice.

Now, if you move onto Moffat's tenure, you'll find it happens way more often. But during most of RTD's tenure, he killed off most of the villains in normal (albeit clever ways).