[blackzoid]

Time to change the thread title then. Cos its certainly misleading.

This post has been edited by blackzoid: 16 February 2009 - 01:03 PM

[Tapper]

blackzoid, on Feb 16 2009, 01:40 PM, said:

But..... but the thread title...is strength a skill?.... would Karsa be as good if he was in a human body?......Rake/Dassem/Tool probably would be....Karsa never fights other Teblor withswords......etc etc etc.....never mind.

I'm out of this lads.

The application of strength is a skill, yes. Training your strength and its focus is also a development, just like skill. Superior reach is no good unless you learn to exploit it, and avoid the shortcomings, for example, that the dead zone close to your body is larger as well.

More, Corps-a-corps is a known dueling term, and means nothing less than engaging the other bodily.

A swordsman who tries to elbow his enemy and misses or one who tries to lock swords at the wrong time is a dead guy - where he would gain an advantage if he did it at the right time. Would you not describe this as skill? Or as a part of swordplay? Even though, to profit the most, you'd have to have superior strength?

Once again, you can't disconnect fighters from their physique. If Karsa was less strong, he'd wield a different sword, and employ a different technique, and he may have been called Blues.

[Toc]

blackzoid, on Feb 16 2009, 01:53 PM, said:

Time to change the thread title then. Cos its certainly misleading.

Agreed.
No sword fighter has displayed the skill Brys showed when he incapacitated Rhulad.

[Lisheo]

What title do ye want?

[muco]

Dassem, Rake are ascendants, which gives them special 'powers'. Weren't Dassem's followers chanting during his fight with Rake?

Well, based on pure skill and normalizing everything else, the first would beat everyone.

[Toc]

Hm.. something like... Who would win the fights between the best sword-using characters.

[Hinter]

Lisheo, on Feb 16 2009, 01:16 PM, said:

What title do ye want?

How about "The bunch of daft fanboys having a silly argument thread?"

Just a suggestion

[Lisheo]

An improvement, gents?

[Grief]

Toc, on Feb 16 2009, 01:12 PM, said:

blackzoid, on Feb 16 2009, 01:53 PM, said:

Time to change the thread title then. Cos its certainly misleading.

Agreed.
No sword fighter has displayed the skill Brys showed when he incapacitated Rhulad.

Actually, i'd have to disagree here.
If we're going along the argument that he only hit very accurately or whatever, Rake fought Dassem without hitting him, or taking a hit. That means, in a sword fight faster than Karsa could see, he blocked every single hit. Pretty precise.

I really don't think slicing tendons is somehow a sign of "masterful skill". It shows he's considerably better than Rhulad. But no other fighter has ever really tried that stuff, doesn't mean they couldn't, and based on what we've seen, i'd say other fighters can. If I recall correctly, Rhulads fight with Brys is visible to the naked eye, can be followed.

Brys is good, but we've seen no evidence of him being the best, and it just doesn't strike me that he is.

For people who say "We've not seen anyone else do what Brys did" fine.
We've also not seen Brys do what many other people did, so there's no evidence that he could.

muco, on Feb 16 2009, 01:18 PM, said:

Dassem, Rake are ascendants, which gives them special 'powers'. Weren't Dassem's followers chanting during his fight with Rake?

Well, based on pure skill and normalizing everything else, the first would beat everyone.

Quotes?
We have seen absolutely nothing of the first.
All we know is that he sent Mok away due to moks growing prowess.
And Mok was given pause by a severely weakened T'lan Imass using a sword made out of stone.

[Tapper]

Grief, on Feb 16 2009, 02:32 PM, said:

Toc, on Feb 16 2009, 01:12 PM, said:

blackzoid, on Feb 16 2009, 01:53 PM, said:

Time to change the thread title then. Cos its certainly misleading.

Agreed.
No sword fighter has displayed the skill Brys showed when he incapacitated Rhulad.

Actually, i'd have to disagree here.
If we're going along the argument that he only hit very accurately or whatever, Rake fought Dassem without hitting him, or taking a hit. That means, in a sword fight faster than Karsa could see, he blocked every single hit. Pretty precise.

I really don't think slicing tendons is somehow a sign of "masterful skill". It shows he's considerably better than Rhulad. But no other fighter has ever really tried that stuff, doesn't mean they couldn't, and based on what we've seen, i'd say other fighters can. If I recall correctly, Rhulads fight with Brys is visible to the naked eye, can be followed.

Brys is good, but we've seen no evidence of him being the best, and it just doesn't strike me that he is.

For people who say "We've not seen anyone else do what Brys did" fine.
We've also not seen Brys do what many other people did, so there's no evidence that he could.

muco, on Feb 16 2009, 01:18 PM, said:

Dassem, Rake are ascendants, which gives them special 'powers'. Weren't Dassem's followers chanting during his fight with Rake?

Well, based on pure skill and normalizing everything else, the first would beat everyone.

Quotes?
We have seen absolutely nothing of the first.
All we know is that he sent Mok away due to moks growing prowess.
And Mok was given pause by a severely weakened T'lan Imass using a sword made out of stone.

Not sure if Tool counts as being severely weakened, especially when compared to other Imass, him having his own warren in DG and blowing through Coral all the while chopping up Kell Hunters. I bet the gate he blew up was invested with sorcery as well.
Fact is, as a T'lan he could take hits other's couldn't and focus on offense, neglecting defense up to a point. Now that he is mortal and can tire (so now that sword being stone is a factor), he can't do either.

Also, Tool's blade was invested by Kilava, the only human bonecaster still alive (aside from what's-her-name) - and seen from who-was-it-again-Silverfox that means a lot of power. Lastly, Karsa also wields an invested stone blade...

[Grief]

Memories of Ice page 502 said:

Toc had never before seen a T'lan Imass so badly damaged. It seemed impossible that Tool could stand, much less walk

This is prior to his fight with Mok, so he's not best of condition anyhow.

Memories of Ice page 228 said:

The plain is vast," Tool replied. Also, there are the effects of the Tellann warren which surrounds me- though that is much weakened at the moment. Someone has drawn on my life-force, almost to exhaustion.

And that is his condition all through MoI.

[Tapper]

Grief, on Feb 16 2009, 03:08 PM, said:

Memories of Ice page 502 said:

Toc had never before seen a T'lan Imass so badly damaged. It seemed impossible that Tool could stand, much less walk

This is prior to his fight with Mok, so he's not best of condition anyhow.

Memories of Ice page 228 said:

The plain is vast," Tool replied. Also, there are the effects of the Tellann warren which surrounds me- though that is much weakened at the moment. Someone has drawn on my life-force, almost to exhaustion.

And that is his condition all through MoI.

Oki, not in the best of conditions. How much does the near destruction of an inanimate object (corpse) made animate by the Vow (and not by his Warren) matter for the functioning of said object?
And of how much influence is his Warren on his swordplay?

[Grief]

Tapper, on Feb 16 2009, 02:13 PM, said:

Grief, on Feb 16 2009, 03:08 PM, said:

Memories of Ice page 502 said:

Toc had never before seen a T'lan Imass so badly damaged. It seemed impossible that Tool could stand, much less walk

This is prior to his fight with Mok, so he's not best of condition anyhow.

Memories of Ice page 228 said:

The plain is vast," Tool replied. Also, there are the effects of the Tellann warren which surrounds me- though that is much weakened at the moment. Someone has drawn on my life-force, almost to exhaustion.

And that is his condition all through MoI.

Oki, not in the best of conditions. How much does the near destruction of an inanimate object (corpse) made animate by the Vow (and not by his Warren) matter for the functioning of said object?
And of how much influence is his Warren on his swordplay?

Of course it matters. Since they can be destroyed, it stnads to reason that damage weakens them still. It also means he's closer to his limit/threshold, whereafter he is destroyed, meaning Mok has to do less to severely weaken/destroy him.

And he is weakened. Its his life force. And its almost exhausted. Of course that makes a difference.

[blackzoid]

Lisheo, on Feb 16 2009, 01:21 PM, said:

An improvement, gents?

Thanks man.

[Grief]

Hehe, for 5 glorious minutes it was "the bunch of daft fanboys having a silly argument thread"

[blackzoid]

Grief, on Feb 16 2009, 02:30 PM, said:

Hehe, for 5 glorious minutes it was "the bunch of daft fanboys having a silly argument thread"

Silly doesn't get a thread past the first 5 pages.
24 pages, now thats something waaaay beyond silly.

[Grief]

Well, its only twelve pages for me

[BeLeG]

"I really don't think slicing tendons is somehow a sign of "masterful skill""


Allow me to disagree
Imho It's the best thing we ve seen so far in terms of sword-skill

[Grief]

What, that someone can slice a tendon without chopping someones arms off?
Not the most difficult thing i'd say tbh.

[Grief]

The list of things some of other swordsmen have managed that Brys couldn't is far longer than the list of things that Brys could do that they couldn't.
And there is absolutely no evidence that Rake, Dassem, Mok etc couldn't do what he did either.