[teholbeddict]

stone monkey, on Dec 4 2008, 11:44 AM, said:

There's a fantastic (but, to be fair, massively criticised by most of the Hindus who have seen it) six hour stage version of the Mahabharata, a version of which was shown on British tv in the early 90s (or late 80s, my memory of the time is foggy for all sorts of reasons)

There's also an Indian tv adaptation, (90+ episodes iirc, I haven't seen them all) ; which has to be one of the maddest thigs I've ever witnessed.

I know I was reading about that! The article I was looking at was saying that while the tv adaptation was being aired the streets of India were virtually deserted because everyone was glued to their tv sets! They are very passionate about their religion! I can't imagine anything that would move those of us in the Western world enough to stop all of us for an hour of our hectic lives!

[teholbeddict]

Section 10 - Investiture of the Three Deitites: The Illustrious August Children

Well it looks as if the birth or deities may be coming to and end. In this section it looks like we meet what I like to call the Big Three, the children to top all children...

Quote

1 At this time His Augustness the Male-Who-Invites greatly rejoiced, saying; "I, begetting child after child, have at my final begetting gotten three illustrious children,". 2 With which words, at once jinglingly taking off and shaking the jewel-string forming his august necklace, 3 he bestowed it on the Heaven-Shining-Great-August-Deity, saying: 4 "Do Thine Augustness rule the Plain-of-High-Heaven." 5 With this charge he bestowed it on her. 6 Now the name of this august necklace was the August-Store-house-Shelf-Deity. 7 Next he said of His Augustness Moon-Night-Possessor: "Do Thine Augustness rule the Dominion of the "Night." 8 Thus he charged him. Next he said to His-Brave-Swift-Impetuous-Male-Augustness: "Do Thine Augustness rule the Sea-Plain."

It sounds like His Augustness is looking to retire! I'm sure it would be slightly exhausting birthing all of these gods, creating land masses and losing you wife who also happens to be your sister. This is the first time though that we hear of different plains, so we're getting a few more parameters to work with. We now know that there is a High Heaven, Night, and Sea -Plain. Really when you stop to consider it Man Who Invites and Woman Who Invites, have created heaven and earth, dark and light, day and night between the two of them. They've just taken a little longer to do it than God did in Genesis, plus they've created demi-gods to watch over everything. There is a little trial and error involved as well, so we know they're not without fault. It's also interesting to see that these gods have vulnerabilities. For all of the fantasitical happenings in the Kojiki, it some how strikes me as much more practical than some of the other creation stories I've read.

[teholbeddict]

Section 11 - The August Oath

Okay I'll start off with saying sorry gang! I've been a bit lax about updating this post, so no further delays let get right into it:

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So thereupon His-Swift-Impetuous-Male-Augustness said: if that be so I will take leave of the Heaven-Shining-Great-August deity, and depart." With these words he forthwith went up to Heaven, whereupon all the mountains and rivers shook, and every land and country quaked. So the Heaven-Shining-Great-August deity, alarmed at the noise, said: " The reason of the ascent hither of His Augustness my elder brother is surely of no good intent. It is only that he wishes to wrest my land from me." And she forthwith, unbinding her august hair, twisted it into august bunches; and both into the left and into the right august bunch, as likewise into her august head-dress and likewise on to her left and her right august arm, she twisted an augustly complete string of curved jewels eight feet long, of five hundred jewels, and, slinging on her back a quiver holding a thousand arrows, and adding thereto a quiver holding five hundred arrows, she likewise took and slung at her side a mighty and high sounding elbow-pad, and brandished and stuck her bow upright so that the top shook, and she stamped her feet into the hard ground up to her opposing thighs, kicking away the earth like rotten snow, and stood valiantly like unto a mighty man, and, waiting, asked: "Wherefore ascendest thou hither?" Then His-Swift-Impetuous-Male-Augustness replied, saying: "I have no evil intent. It is only that when the Great August deity our father spoke, deigning to inquire the cause of my wailing and weeping, I said: 'I wail because I wish to go to my deceased mother's land' -- whereupon the Great-August deity said: 'Thou shalt not dwell in this land,' and deigned to expel me with a divine expulsion. It is therefore solely with the thought of taking leave of thee and departing, that I have ascended hither. I have no strange intentions." Then the Heaven-Shining-Great-August deity said: " If that be so, whereby shall I know the sincerity of thine intentions? " Thereupon His-Swift-Impetuous-Male-Augustness replied, saying: "Let each of us swear and produce children." So as they then swore to each other from the opposite banks of the Tranquil River of Heaven, the august names of the deities that were born from the mist of her breath when, having first begged His-Swift-Impetuous-Male-Augustness to hand her the ten-grasp saber which was girded on him, and broken it into three fragments, and with the jewels making a jingling sound, having brandished and washed them in the True-Pool-Well of Heaven, and having crunchingly crunched them, the Heaven-Shining-Great deity blew them away, were Her Angustness Torrent-Mist-Princess, another august name for whom is Her Augustness Princess-of-the-Island-of-the-Offing; next Her Augustness Lovely-Island-Princess another august name for whom is Her Augustness Good-Princess; next Her Augustness Princess-of-the-Torrent. The august name of the deity that was born from the mist of his breath when, having begged the Heaven-Shining-Great-August deity to hand him the augustly complete string of curved jewels eight feet long - of five hundred jewels - that was twisted in the left august bunch of her hair, and with the jewels making a jingling sound having brandished and washed them in the True-Pool-Well of Heaven, and having cruncbingly crunched them, His-Swift-Impetuous-Male-Augustness blew them away, was His Augustness Truly-Conqueror-I-Conqueror-Conquering-Swift-Heavenly-Great-Great-Ears. The august name of the deity that was born from the mist of his breath when again, having begged her to hand him the jewels that were twisted in the right august bunch of her hair, and having crunchingly crunched them, he blew them away, was His Augustness Ame-no-hohi. The august name of the deity that was born from the mist of his breath when again, having begged her to hand him the jewels that were twisted in her august head-dress, and having crunchingly crunched them, he blew them away, was His Augustness Prince-Lord-of-Heaven. The august name of the deity that was born from the mist of his breath when again, having begged her to hand him the jewels that were twisted on her left august arm, and having crunchingly crunched them, he blew them away, was His Augustness Prince-Lord-of-Life. The august name of the deity that was born from the mist of his breath when again, having begged her to band him the jewels that were twisted on her right august arm, and having crunchingly crunched them,, be blew them away was His-Wondrous-Augustness-of-Kumanu. ( Five deities in all.)

Hmm so this section proved to be mighty confusing! The long and short of it seems to be that we have some brothers and sisters who are now fighting things out -oh the drama! To prove they are well intentioned they decide to fo with the tried and true family stand by of reproduction! These new deities are born out of a bunch of crunched up jewels which once made up a chain eight feet in length. If nothing else we get what I think is the coolest name yet: Truly-Conqueror-I-Conqueror-Conquering-Swift-Heavenly-Great-Great-Ears

[teholbeddict]

Section 12 - The August Declaration of the August Male Children and the August Female Children

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Hereupon the Heavenly Shining-Great-August deity said to His-Swift-Impetuous-Male-Augustness: "As for the seed of the five male deities born last, their birth was from things of mine; so undoubtedly they are my children. As for the seed of the three female deities born first, their birth was from a thing of thine; so doubtless they are thy children." Thus did she declare the division. So Her Augustness Torrent-Mist-Princess, the deity born first, dwells in the inner temple of Munakata. The next, Her Augustness Lovely-Island-Princess, dwells in the middle temple of Munakata. The next, Her Augustness Princess-of-the-Torrent, dwells in the outer temple of Munakata. These three deities are of the three great deities held in reverence by the dukes of Munakata. So His Augustuess Brave-Rustic-Illuminator, child of His Augustness Ame-no-hohi, one of the five children born afterward. This is the ancestor of the rulers of the land of Idzumo, of the rulers of the land of Muzashi, of the rulers of the upper land of Unakami, of the rulers of the lower land of Unakami, of the rulers of the land of lzhimu, of the departmental suzerains of the Island of Tsu and of the rulers of the land of Tobo-tsu-Afumi. The next, His Augustness Prince-Lord-of-Heaven, is the ancestor of the rulers of the land of Ofushi-kafuchi, of the chiefs of Nukatabe-no-yuwe, of the rulers of the land of Ki, of the suzerains of Tanaka in Yamato, of the rulers of the land of Yamashiro, of the rulers of the land of Umaguta, of the rulers of the land of Kine in Michi-no-Shiri, of the rulers of the land of Suhau, of the rulers of Amuchi, in Yamato, of the departmental suzerains of Takechi, of the territorial lords of Kamafu, and of the rulers of Sakikusabe.

So it seems to me like a bit of a custody battle has taken place here. Obviously the two deities have no plans of staying together. Let's remember the two of them having children was just a way of His Male Augustness proving his intentions were good. It's an interesting concept for a family unit. The kojiki stikes me as very progressive, it's cool that they're not just going to stay together for the kids. I wonder if the fact that all of the male children are apparently a product of Her Augustness and the female children all being a product of the His Augustness has any significance? Nothing seems to happen by coincidence in the kojiki so I'm sure it will play some part in the story later on.

[teholbeddict]

Section 13- The August Ravages of His Impetuous Male Augustness

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Then His-Swift-Impetuous-Male-Augustness said to the Heaven-Shining-Great-August deity: "Owing to the sincerity of my intentions I have, in begetting children, gotten delicate females. Judging from this I have undoubtedly gained the victory." With these words, and impetuous with victory, he broke down the divisions of the rice-fields laid out by the Heaven-Shining-Great-August deity filled up the ditches, and moreover strewed excrements in the palace where she partook of the great food. So, though he did thus, the Heaven-Shining-Great-August deity upbraided him not, but said: "What looks like excrements must be something that His Augustness mine elder brother has vomited through drunkenness. Again, as to his breaking down the divisions of the rice-fields and filling up the ditches, it must be because be grudges the land they occupy that His Augustness mine elder brother acts thus." But notwithstanding these apologetic words, he still continued his evil acts, and was more and more violent. As the Heaven-Shining-Great-August deity sat in her awful weaving-hall seeing to the weaving of the august garments of the deities, he broke a hole in the top of the weaving-hall, and through it let fall a heavenly piebald horse which he had flayed with a backward flaying, at whose sight the women weaving the heaveijy garments were so much alarmed they died of fear.

Holy crap (no pun intended)! His Augustness is on the war path and the family politics is getting quite dirty! What kind of man throws shit (actual shit) all over someone's dining room?! I love how her augustness is trying to make excuses for him! Listen people if you walk into your dining room one day and someone has pooped all over it, that's not a drunken accident! They've got it in for you! Of course strewing feces all over the place wasn't enough he then goes on to drop a horse through her weaving room and then slaughters it! This is better than that scene in the God Father with the horse head in the bed! I love it! I can not believe this is a religious text!

[Dag]

This is getting better and better indeed... Keep up the good work - I'm really looking forward to the next chapter!

[teholbeddict]

Thanks again Dag for continuing to read the posts! The Kojiki really is excellent, I've been reading ahead and there's plenty of entertainment to come!

[teholbeddict]

Section 14 - The Door of the Heavenly Rock-Dwelling

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So thereupon the Heaven-Shining-Great-August deity, terrified at the sight, closed behind her the door of the Heavenly Rock-Dwelling, made it fast and retired. Then the whole Plain of High Heaven was obscured and all the Central Land of Reed-Plains darkened. Owing to this, eternal night prevailed. Hereupon the voices of the myriad deities were like unto the flies in the fifth moon as they swarmed, and a myriad portents of woe all arose. Therefore did the eight hundred myriad deities assemble in a divine assembly in the bed of the Tranquil River of Heaven, and bid the deity Thought-Includer, child of the High-August-Producing-Wondrous deity, think of a plan, assembling the long-singing birds of eternal night and making them sing, taking the hard rocks of Heaven from the river-bed of the Tranquil River of Heaven, and taking the iron from the Heavenly Metal-Mountains, calling in the smith Ama-tsu-ma-ra, charging Her Augtsness I-shi-ko-ri-do-me to make a mirror, and charging His Augustness Jewel-Ancestor to make an augustly complete string of curved jewels eight feet long - of five hundred jewels - and summoning His Augustness Heavenly-Beekoning-Ancestor-Lord and His Augustness Great-Jewel, and causing them to pull out with a complete pulling the shoulder-blade of a true stag from the Heavenly Mount Kagu, and take cherry-bark from the Heavenly Mount Kagu, and perform divination, and pulling up by pulling its roots a true cleyera japonica with five hundred branches from the Heavenly Mount Kaga, and taking and putting upon its upper branches the augustly complete string of curved jewels eight feet long - of five hundred jewels - and taking and tying to the middle branches the mirror eight feet long, and taking and hanging upon its lower branches the white pacificatory offerings and the blue pacificatory offering His Augustness Grand-Jewel taking these divers things and holding them together with the grand august offerings, and His Augustness Heavenly-Beckoning-Ancestor-Lord prayerfully reciting grand liturgies, and the Heavenly Hand-Strength-Male deity standing hidden beside the door, and Her Augustness Heavenly-Alarming-Female banging round her the heavenly clubmoss the Heavenly -Mount Kagu as a sash, and making the heavenly spindle-tree her head-dress and binding the leaves of the bamboo-grass of the Heavenly -Mount-Kagu in a posy for her hands, and laying a sounding-board before the door of the Heavenly Rock-Dwelling and stamping, till she made it resound and doing as if possessed by a deity, and pulling out the nipples of her breasts, pushing down her skirt-string "usque ad privates partes". Then the Plain of High Heaven shook, and the eight hundred myriad deities laughed together.

Hereupon the Heaven-Shining-Great-August deity was greatly amazed, and, slightly opening the door of the Heavenly Rock-Dwelling, spoke thus from the inside: "Methought that owing to my retirement the Plain of Heaven would be dark, and likewise the Central Land of Reed-Plains would all be dark: how then is it that the Heavenly-Alarming-Female makes merry, and that likewise the eight hundred myriad deities all laugh? "Then the Heavenly-Alarming-Female spoke, saving: "We rejoice and are glad because there is a deity more illustrious than Thine Augustness." While she was thus speaking, His Augustness Heavenly-Beckoning-Ancestor-Lord and His Augustness Grand-Jewel pushed forward the mirror and respectfully showed it to the Heaven-Shining-Great-August deity, whereupon the Heaven-Shining-Great-August deity, more and more astonished, gradually came forth from the door and gazed upon it, whereupon the Heavenly-Hand-Strength-Male deity, who was standing hidden, took her august hand and drew her out, and then His Augustness Grand-Jewel drew the bottom-tied rope along at her august back, and spoke, saving: "Thou must not go back further in than this"! So when the Heaven-Shining-Great-August deity had come forth, both the Plain of High Heaven and the Central-Land-of-Reed-Plains of course again became light.

So it seems like the other deities have had enough of his Augustness and his dirty tricks! So they all get together and come up with this clever plan! It seems the main part of the plan is to lure him out using a strip show courtesy of Her Augustness Heavenly-Alarming-Female. So she plays with her nipples and her private parts, I'm assuming it's her private parts. All translations of the kojiki have that phrase "usque ad privates partes" as there is no definitive translation. If you put two and two together though it's pretty obvious. His Augustness, being the typical male is lured out and is shocked to see that the party has continued in his absence. He's fooled by his own reflection in a mirror and is about to walk into a trap!! It seems somewhat strange to me that a god could be fooled this easily. Once again though the kojiki never fails to deliver in the departments of shock and excitement!

[Dag]

Tehol - which translation are you using?!? It's absolutely hilarious!

I don't really get it why they are sticking to name translations throughout the text - I don't think anyone would have a problem with Susano-o or Amaterasu-no-Omikami or Izanami or Izanagi if the meanings of the characters used to write their names were explained in the footnotes... It gives the text a slightly humouristic touch (yey for that! ), but it unfortunately also makes it quite difficult to read, so I'm not surprised you mixed up the genders of the deities in the last chapter... It was not the naughty Susano-o who locked himself up in the cave, but his sister, Amaterasu (seems like that flayed horse thingy gave her a good scare), and since she was the sun goddess ("the one that illuminates heaven") everything went dark and cold, so the Gods decided to use this surprise-party trick to lure her out. Ame-no-Uzume was the one doing the striptease (um... I don't think she really "touched" her private parts - she just revealed her bare breasts and pulled up her skirts up until her private parts were visible, all the while dancing on an overturned trough or tub). So when Amaterasu heard everybody was having a good time without her, she decided to take a look at what's going on outside, and, a typical girl she was, when she saw her own pretty reflection in the mirror, she couldn't resist to come out and admire herself even more (although, it also could be that she was feeling jealous, since she actually thought it was another pretty sun deity she was seeing there in the mirror, and we know how it is with girls and pretty competition... ) So she got caught, and thanks to that, there's sushine again in the Land of the Rising Sun. (And Susano-o, her brother, got kicked out of the Heaven for this, but I guess that's another story...)

But do go on, girl - I like your sense of humour, makes me look at Kojiki in a whole new way...

[teholbeddict]

Oh my how embarassing! Ah thank you for clearing that up for me Dag! It makes much more sense now! It's still incredibly funny even if it's not as dirty as I originally thought! I'm using a translation that's supposed to be as close to the original text as possible. There are no footnotes in the one I picked up so I'm stuck trying to puzzle my way through things. The names make things almost impossible to keep track of though. I wanted to make sure we were getting the real deal here! It does add humor to things though and the names are a riot! I'll read more carefully next time I promise!

[teholbeddict]

Section 15 - The August Expulsion of His Impetuous Male Augustness

Brace yourselves my lovely readers this section promises to have some eye opening occurences as usual! I'll try not to make mistakes on my follow up this time but feel free to jump in if you notice any errors!

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Thereupon the eight hundred myriad deities took counsel together, and imposed on High-Swift-Impetuous-Male-Augustness a fine of a thousand tables, and likewise cut his beard, and even caused the nails of his fingers and toes to be pulled out, and expelled him with a divine expulsion. Again he begged food of the deity Princess-of-Great-Food. Then the Princess-of-Great-Food took out all sorts of dainty things from her nose, her mouth, and her fundament, and made them up into all sorts of dishes, which she offered to him. But His-Swift-Impetuous-Male-Augustness watched her proceedings, considered that she was offering up to him filth, and at once killed the deity Princess-of-Great-Food. So the things that were born in the body of the deity who had been killed were as follows: in her head were born silkworms, in her two eyes were born rice-seeds, in her two ears was born millet, in her nose were born small beans, in her private parts was born barley, in her fundament were born large beans. So His Augustness the Deity-Producing-Wondrous-Ancestor caused them to be taken and used as seeds.

So the other deities decide His-Augustness is finally going to pay for the whole shitting all over the dining room and killing the horse incident! Clearly they're done playing around if they're ripping out his toe nails and finger nails. The thousand tables for those of you who were wondering are tables laden with gifts. Then they decide to show him the door, which is clearly a bad idea. The should have finished him off right then and there!!! :sabre: For a group of individuals who are supposed to be devine and all knowing they sure do some crazy things. Instead they let him beg for provisions and decide to play one last nasty joke. Princess-of-Great-Food prepares some goodies who's main ingredients include, boogers and spit and of course -as this is the kojiki we're talking about - shit!!! What is it with these people and number two, it's popping up all over the place?! Anyways, Princess-Great-Food wasn't very careful about guarding her secret recipes as His Augustness catches her whipping said dainties! He promptly does her in (they should have just killed the bugger when they had the chance)! Then the corpse of Princess-Great-Food sprouts all kind of lovely seeds and silk worms (which I'm guessing he won't eat), oh and of course large beans from her rear end! I'm immature I know and shouldn't laugh at these things but I can't help it!

[Dag]

Oh nooooooo!!! I was just eating my supper when I read this...

In this case I must say I'm on Susano-o's side... Ōgetsu-hime really got what she deserved...

This post has been edited by Dag: 18 December 2008 - 08:27 PM

[Terez]

wtf is a fundament? I suppose I could just take it in context, but then the question becomes, why call it a "fundament"?

[teholbeddict]

I assumed that a fundament was her bum, rear end, whatever you want to call it. I could be wrong here lord knows I have been before. I'm not sure why they bother calling it a fundament. One thing I have noticed though, is that while the Kojiki seems full of shocking happenings, the wording is always as polite as possible. I don't know if it's just the way it translates or what. It kind of makes in even more funny when I do my follow ups!

[Terez]

I was hoping it was her poontang. "Fundament" is a cool name for pussy.

[ch'arlz]

It's the buttocks or anus. Stylistically, it's a fairly archaic word which is why I assume it was used in this context.

[Shadow]

posting out of alt, nvm....

This post has been edited by Shadow: 19 December 2008 - 12:49 AM

[Mentalist]

ahem
as I was saying
hmm
wow, the Japanese sure are an odd bunch

regarding earlier topic about the Hindu creation--I recall back in gradde 6 foreign literature class, we were given a brief summary. of things.
there was an egg it broke, Brama came forth and made one half sky and the other land.
this was MAAANY years ago, however, so can't be sure of that.

lol, don't recall ever hearing any of the Slavic creation myths, so can't share those, I'm afraid--the only thing we have from back then are are some of the god's names, because some of the older princes swore by them on offical Byzantine documents and the names of some of the later Christianized festivals and holidays.

[Cold Iron]

Would you say "Show me your fundament" or "Get your fundament out"?

[Dag]

Mentalist, on Dec 19 2008, 01:50 AM, said:

lol, don't recall ever hearing any of the Slavic creation myths, so can't share those, I'm afraid--the only thing we have from back then are are some of the god's names, because some of the older princes swore by them on offical Byzantine documents and the names of some of the later Christianized festivals and holidays.

Wasn't it something like, that at first, the whole world was a dark ocean, there was no light - no sun, no stars - but then a white shell appeared on the surface of the water and out of it Svarun was born, and he held the Horn of Plenty in his hand...? He blew the horn once, and the light was born and the skies; he blew the horn for the second time, and dark waters drew back, to reveal dry earth; and then he blew the horn for the third time, and so all living beings were created (except for humans - they came later and were, if I remember correctly, created by his wife, Koleda...) At least that's what I've been told...

This post has been edited by Dag: 19 December 2008 - 06:41 PM