[madsaxon]

So... facts.

Seguleh Second (Soldier of Death) = hella pissed at Skinner.
Seguleh Second = Dead.
Skinner = Mercenary dude who utilizes what he can to achieve victory (Poison, impervious bad japanese video-game like armor, magery)
Seguleh Second + Skinner = ?

Did Skinner possibly cut the Second, poison the crap out of him, and wig out? Leaving the Second to die of poison and not a tried and true contest? That would explain the Second's almost-fanatic hatred of the dude.

Also, hunting.... hunting...

It's been assumed and (somewhat) proven that the Seguleh were the army of the Tyrant of Darujhistan. Their name translates to "Anvil," if I'm correct. What's the hammer, then?

[Sindriss]

Well, i think it is entirely possible that skinner just manage to survive a duel with the second which infuriated him. But poison and stuff? Who knows, might be, doubt we will ever know for sure

[Aptorian]

The ancient name for a Shield Anvil is something along the lines of Torrud Segul. So it would be logical for the Torruld Mage Cabal of Darujistan to be the Hammer.

Why the Second wants Skinner is anyones guess. He might just have done something dishonorable that the Second heard of. Maybe Skinner had him shot down with an arrow, maybe he gave him the finger at a rock concert. We won't know before we hear more.

[Lisheo]

Aptorian, on Nov 7 2008, 07:00 AM, said:

Why the Second wants Skinner is anyones guess. He might just have done something dishonorable that the Second heard of. Maybe Skinner had him shot down with an arrow, maybe he gave him the finger at a rock concert. We won't know before we hear more.

Lol I have the most fantastic mental image of the undead Segulah headbanging away at some gig, then slowly turning around to see Skinner giving him the finger from across the room...

[Leoman of the Flails]

Its been mentioned on the forum before somewhere I think, and I kind of agree with this theory (until we find out more info), that the Solider is hunting Skinner because of the immortality granted to Skinner and the rest of the Avowed. It makes sense to me that Hood would be kinda cheesed off at the Avowed for cheating death *shrug*. Hood could use a few friends like Skinner and the Avowed, then he would be more understanding...

[Abyss]

I was bummed that we didn't at least get a tiny further hint of what led to this rivalry.

We can't assume that the Second did in fact 'die' before he became Hood's Soldier/Knight. While Baudin did die first back in DG/MoI, Dassem and Gethol were both alive, altho Gethol was a bit of a mess.

It's possible that a few centuries/decades/years serving Hood is simply enuf for the Second to end up looking like a reanimated corpse.

I'm reading an awful lot into Envy and Krul's chat in MoI and a handful of passing refs, but if Skinner had in fact defeated the Second, then Skinner would be Second, not the Soldier.

Another element is that Skinner is the only Avowed to live through facing Dassem, and we don't know if Dassem was Knight of Death at that time.

That said, the Soldier's obsession with Skinner seems personal, not Hood-driven.

So, with that, there are the obvious possibilities...

- Skinner killed the Second;
- Skinner defated the Second in some dishonourable way, either before or after the Soldier 'died';
- Hood is just pissed at the Guard in general.

I dunno, maybe the Soldier actually WANTS Skinner to kill him in some weird 'you faced my Master's previous Knight and lived so you are hard core enough to have the honour of killing me' sort of way.

At no point in RCG does Skinner or anyone around him even hint at the deal with the Soldier - this whole thing may be in the Soldier's head and Skinner isn't even spending time worrying about him. While the Soldier's pursuit in TB seemed pretty enthusiastic, he IS kind of bugnuts after all.

- Abyss, wants to know MORE...

[Sheve]

But if "Hood" sent the second to kill skinner for being "immortal" why not the other 100 awoved left?
The 2 vs skinner sound allot more personal?

If hood wants the avowed start with the sucky ones that will die, why start with the one that cant die cous of his armor
Thats ofc that skinner is the first, if he started in som other end of CG its still stupid but not in the sameway.

[Padnul]

Skinner isn't the first of the Avowed (assuming there is a first since they all took the vow at the same time). If we look at the person who's responsible for the Avowed it would be K'azz. Never do we see that Hood or the 2nd has any beef with him. So I would say it is indeed personal.

[Spelljammer]

Look, I don't think it has anything to do with Hood at all.

I mean when he runs into Cutter in 7C, he specifies that he had almost caught up to Skinner, and damns Hood for taking him away.... so.... draw your own conclusions.

[Lisheo]

Thats tru, SJ. It seems Hood doesn't really care whether the Second catches up with Skinner. In fact he might even be trying to prevent it... Hmm.

[Silencer]

However, consider that the Second might just be upset that Hood had distracted him from his goal. Whether or not that goal is personal is irrelevant - Hood may have seen it that it was simply more important for the Second to meet Cutter etc, than catch up with Skinner.

[Spelljammer]

Honestly, it all smells of personal vendetta...

[Cause]

Torrud means shield. So torrud cabal plus seguleh are shield anvil. Which has some wierd connotation when looking at iktovian for example. So what it means I have no idea but I dont think their is a hammer.

[Battalion]

Couldn't the Second have once been the First, and only became the Second after being defeated by Skinner, thus creating his hatred for the man?
Haven't actually finished the book yet, so don't know if the First is in it. If he is, ignore my theory, by all means, most people do most of the time anyway.

[Cause]

Krull speaks about a first and strongly implies he is deeply apart of seguleh culture so not skinner

[Trenchgrave]

I think I agree that their little vandetta has nothing to do with Hood per se. Even if Skinner beat the Second, there is nothing we have seen in Seguleh culture that would lead to that kind of hate. If Skinner beat him, he would just have taken his place and the Second will go move one down.

Now it may be that such a victory was as a result of some cheating, and obviously that wont sit well with the one on the recieving end of that, and that seems to be the prevailent theory.

My personal theory, based on nothing whatsoever, is that the Second is looking for Skinner because of something that happened on Jacurucu, and involving his new patron (that gifted him the armour). Not even the other avowed seems to quite know what the deal is there, but the fact is that Skinner turned traitor and.... changed. Maybe the armour is what granted him victory over the Second, or maybe he has the item that a shipfull of high rank Seguleh are searching for. For all we know this is the same thing that the Second is looking for. Maybe for Skinner to become the swordsman he is now he, (or his patron for him) had to get of hold of something sacred or important to the Seguleh, and got it through cheating the Second, resulting in the hunt.

Either way, that shipfull of Seguleh aren't looking for a message in a bottle, so I speculate that they may be looking for the same thing.

Lots of 'ifs' and 'maybes', but thats why we call it theories, LOL

Off the topic, way back in the beginning, when we were introduced to Toc the younger, he was scouting and found the remnant of the Anjucts party. They were elites and went down hard, according to him. Weren't they called Jucurucan's as well? Or did it jut sound similar?

This post has been edited by Trenchgrave: 01 December 2008 - 10:20 AM

[Shield Anvil]

Trenchgrave, on Dec 1 2008, 10:52 AM, said:

beginning, when we were introduced to Toc the younger, he was scouting and found the remnant of the Anjucts party. They were elites and went down hard, according to him. Weren't they called Jucurucan's as well? Or did it jut sound similar?

I think they were Jakatan elites, the second settlement on Malaz Island, but I could very well be wrong.

[Altamont]

Anyone have a theory as to why the Seguleh 2nd doesn't have the "Seguleh attitude" (ie reserved, doesn't talk to anyone he doesn't have to, etc.)? Would it be just because he's dead and he's mad at Skinner (yes, I hear superintendant Chalmers every time I read Skinner's name...).

AR

[Aptorian]

The Seguleh Second lived/or last experienced the Seguleh people when they lived in Darujistan, before they became isolationist. Hence, they were a different people once. Most likely the Tyrant either shaped them into that martial society or they became that way to fight him.

[Trenchgrave]

Well, to be honest, the only reason I speculate that the Second is Sehuleh at all is the mask on his belt. For all I know he killed the Second and just kept the mask as a souvenir along with the rest of the arsenal he seems to carry around