[Meanas]

WTF? 3 Nks?

I certainly hope those were over eager vigs, because if there are that many killers I can not see this going lasting very long!


Edit: Cross post with the ocean

This post has been edited by Meanas: 12 November 2008 - 10:51 AM

[Shadow]

For Anomandaris?

Because a person who admits symping is either trying to defend someone, or to call attention to that person by doing the job badly.
He admitted symping, that's a fact. In our speculation on set-up, we calculated 3 Ivets, 2 cult, 17 town. Leaves fairly little room for dedicated symps, who are a two-edged sword anyways if they're recruited and/ or possessed (have to reread what happens to roles when possessed to see if that holds sway).

So, he provided links to other people: as in: why was he symping Omtose?

But mostly: I wanted a lynch to gain information and this was a train building, and one likelier to succeed than the Gamelon one that I set up, and on whom I still have a third eye (see my list of people I want to vote for; Rashan, you, Gamelon). Yeah, I'm opportunistic like that, but hardly the only one, see for example Fener in this game and many others, for example, like in the disco game.

[Ruse]

Lol, is there an echo in here?

[Meanas]

apparently so!

Um shadow? Are you talking to Galain?

Edit: there fixed, how I hate cross posts!

This post has been edited by Meanas: 12 November 2008 - 10:51 AM

[Ruse]

Shadow, on Nov 12 2008, 12:48 PM, said:

For Anomandaris?

Because a person who admits symping is either trying to defend someone, or to call attention to that person by doing the job badly.
He admitted symping, that's a fact. In our speculation on set-up, we calculated 3 Ivets, 2 cult, 17 town. Leaves fairly little room for dedicated symps, who are a two-edged sword anyways if they're recruited and/ or possessed (have to reread what happens to roles when possessed to see if that holds sway).

So, he provided links to other people: as in: why was he symping Omtose?

But mostly: I wanted a lynch to gain information and this was a train building, and one likelier to succeed than the Gamelon one that I set up, and on whom I still have a third eye (see my list of people I want to vote for; Rashan, you, Gamelon). Yeah, I'm opportunistic like that, but hardly the only one, see for example Fener in this game and many others, for example, like in the disco game.

DiBs said possessed lose their powers and gain the powers all possessed have. No idea what those powers might be. Also dunno what happens if you're recruited, or if you can be recruited if you have an NA.

Also, Disco was altless - so you know who Fener is? I think I do, but dont really see how it's relevant here.

[Shadow]

Galain, on Nov 12 2008, 05:27 AM, said:

Shadow, on Nov 12 2008, 12:18 PM, said:

Galain, on Nov 12 2008, 04:37 AM, said:

Shadow, on Nov 12 2008, 11:34 AM, said:

It is somewhat farfetched, except for the psychic part, which is mentioned nowhere in the game thread, yet he feels the need to answer it anyway... so clearly, someone said it to him. You being the you in the post, I'd say that was you, too. So, where did that come from?

I think he meant "psychic" as in real life psychic, not as a role in this game.

I hint he's scum symping Rashan when he actually was symping Omtose (mixed up thread memories). He says "I was actually symping Omtose, but do you read minds, because I'm actually paired to Rashan indeed".

That's what I saw his drunken slip to be, as you can see it WAS too good to be true, worth asking second opinions about.

I never meant psychic as a role, don't know where you got that from. Throwing up smoke screens? I meant psychic as:

The word psychic (pronounced /ˈsaɪkɨk/; from the Greek psychikos—"of the soul, mental") refers to the ability to perceive things hidden from the normal senses through what is described as extra-sensory perception, or to those people said to have such abilities.

In other words: someone told him he would be drunk posting (just like Rashan) or feeling like shit.

What? What the hell are you arguing? You lost me.

According to you, I said he was symping Rashan, but he answers "I was not, but are you psychic because now I feel like Rashan (i.e. drunk)."

And you're making super arguments about where he got "psychic" from when the word never appeared on thread?

WTF?

Doh.
Here's my reconstruction:

I meant psychic as in:
1) He mentioned off topic to his partner that he'd go and have a drink.
2) His partner told him off-topic he would be drunk and post like Rashan if he did. Anomandaris may or may not have replied: we'll see.
3) He came back, ties up some loose ends (who were you symping) and says: "yes, I feel like Rashan now, haha, are you psychic?" (as in: hey, you predicted correctly I'd get smashed and try to post, then forget where every key is and end up misspelling everything, just like Rashan did a page before).

If my alt guess is correct, then it most certainly fits Anomandaris' profile. Bit of meta gaming there, but hey... that's what the PM speculation is, too.

[Shadow]

Ruse, on Nov 12 2008, 05:53 AM, said:

Shadow, on Nov 12 2008, 12:48 PM, said:

For Anomandaris?

Because a person who admits symping is either trying to defend someone, or to call attention to that person by doing the job badly.
He admitted symping, that's a fact. In our speculation on set-up, we calculated 3 Ivets, 2 cult, 17 town. Leaves fairly little room for dedicated symps, who are a two-edged sword anyways if they're recruited and/ or possessed (have to reread what happens to roles when possessed to see if that holds sway).

So, he provided links to other people: as in: why was he symping Omtose?

But mostly: I wanted a lynch to gain information and this was a train building, and one likelier to succeed than the Gamelon one that I set up, and on whom I still have a third eye (see my list of people I want to vote for; Rashan, you, Gamelon). Yeah, I'm opportunistic like that, but hardly the only one, see for example Fener in this game and many others, for example, like in the disco game.

DiBs said possessed lose their powers and gain the powers all possessed have. No idea what those powers might be. Also dunno what happens if you're recruited, or if you can be recruited if you have an NA.

Also, Disco was altless - so you know who Fener is? I think I do, but dont really see how it's relevant here.

Sorry, nothing but guesses. I garbled up the sentence, it should be:
...but hardly the only one, see for example Fener in this game and many others in the disco game.
I blame inconsequent backspacing when changing what I type. Sorry.

[Ruse]

As interesting as Galain vs Shadow is, let's not let it become the sole focus so early in the day.

Does anyone have any thoughts about my post 448?

Some other things I'd like to bring up - Night timed out right? Dunno if that means anything, other than someone who wasnt around has some kind of role.

Four dead. Am I the only person who's worried about possession? Cos if it's simply a 'when x players are in the beyond, then possession is possible' mechanic, then we're prob nearing that point (my guess is 5 or 7). I hope it isnt, but I guess we'll have to see. We could also put in anti-Fm type tactics (quotes from obscure websites, half completed sentences etc) but it's really such a mission.

[Shadow]

Anyway, like I said: a lynch of Rashan will make a lot more clear. If he's not an Ivet (him coming up cult would be another fortunate incident), we can go back looking at Galain, cause the 'Rashan is Anomandaris' partner thing' then doesn't float anymore because there's no way Anomandaris could communicate with a townie or a cultist, and Galain's defense, which does partly rest on that principle, is then a bit more dismembered.

So, I'll let it rest from here, for now, and be a patient product of blocked sunbeams with an open mind for new possibilities.

[Shadow]

@ Ruse:
With 22 players and 3 factions, multiple kills were to be expected, I think, just to thin the ranks more than in a normal game to get to mid + end-game at the same pace in days as in a standard game. DiBs also announced that not all roles would have their standard application, but some twists. Might be that a vig has a timer on which he must kill, or something.

As for people coming back from the dead: I don't know if there is a critical mass they need to achieve first. From what I gather from wiki, what the souls needed was not weight, but an opening in the fabric of reality or something to slip through. Second guessing that mechanic can only be done I think when we have a confirmed return, through find, reveal or lynch.

This post has been edited by Shadow: 12 November 2008 - 11:12 AM

[Ruse]

Where did everyone else go? I wanna talk about stuff The top two suspicious persons last night yesterday were Meanas and Rashan. Of the two Rashan seems more likely, but like I said, I'll be disappointed if either of them turn out scum.

I'd also like to hear from Galayn Lord.

[Galain]

Holy shit!

[Galain]

Shadow, on Nov 12 2008, 01:05 PM, said:

Anyway, like I said: a lynch of Rashan will make a lot more clear. If he's not an Ivet (him coming up cult would be another fortunate incident), we can go back looking at Galain, cause the 'Rashan is Anomandaris' partner thing' then doesn't float anymore because there's no way Anomandaris could communicate with a townie or a cultist, and Galain's defense, which does partly rest on that principle, is then a bit more dismembered.

So, I'll let it rest from here, for now, and be a patient product of blocked sunbeams with an open mind for new possibilities.

Why would you want to lynch Rashan? Rashan is up there with Anomandaris mostly because of my interpretation of Ano's drunk post as "how did you guess I was partnered with Rashan?"

You say it's "how did you guess I would be drunk like Rashan?", which looking back makes more sense, I admit it myself.

In that case the person I would prefer lynched today, in connection with Anomandaris' killer CF, is Meanas.

There's of course good arguments to vote Rashan independently of Anomandaris, of course, but since we have a guilty CF I think we should explore those connections.

[Shadow]

Ruse, on Nov 12 2008, 04:36 AM, said:

All caught up. Still not 100% sure what the connection between Rashan and Ano is, other than the one drunken post. Probably because I still have no idea what Ano was saying.

Now I think it's more than likely the Ivet know each other and have offthread comms. I didnt really see anyone defending Ano, so there's no obvious scum there.

Meanas jumped on another train despite the fact that Ano was the obvious lynch. Definitely suspicious, but he's site RL internet issues as his reason for not coming back and changing. There's no way we can prove him wrong, but he cant prove it either. Bit of a risky defense for someone who's obviously about to come under a lot of pressure. Smart scum would have cut their losses and put on their votes. So I dont know about Meanas - that would have been a incredibly stupid move for a scum to make, but it's not unheard of.

Rashan accidentally starting the train with a distancing vote is plausible, but again stupid. His vote was on Ano for quite a while iirc before the group of votes came in. In that time their was quite a bit of grumbling about Ano amongst others. Plenty of time to remove vote and try stop a train before it starts.

So not defending either of them, but if they are scum I have to say I'm disappointed as they've played poorly.

Last two or three votes are always suspicious, as they could be distancing votes once it's clear which way the wind is blowing. Omtose and HP dont strike me as killers, dont really have a read on Mockra. Still, I could be wrong and will go look over their posts in a bit.

The last option is that the other killers simply weren't around. I know I'm in that group, but I was one of the people grumbling about Ano (and Telas) before I had to leave for the night. With 10? other people, a lot of whom haven't said much, it will be difficult to find a killer there, although chances are at least on is.

Finding cult on a train against scum is difficult, as for all intents and purposes they would act like innos, maybe with a little less reservations. Maybe the people that tossed on votes near the middle without contributing much else. Galayn Lord springs to mind, as does Gamelon, but I will have to reread the end of yesterday to check.

Ok, those are my thoughts on the situation so far. Anyone else have any?

As it stands in the bold, it puts you down as belonging to a group of killers

I have no real clue to who's what. There are, for me, two ties to Anomandaris, the first is Rashan, the second (and I assume that this is not shared by everyone) Galain. Then there is the question why he symped Omtose, but that could be day 1 antics, and is a lesser priority for me, although one worthy enough to keep in mind.

Gamelon tickles my fancy, both due to the unnecessary reveal and to the reaction he then put up against the train on him, which wasn't so much a defense as singling someone out on the train, placing a vote on him, and shouting 'there's scum on my train, I know it, cause I'm RI, look, I said so!!' Eager to label people/ single them out seemingly at random, and I don't like that.

Meanas has been very, very helpful with book knowledge. Either willing to work out mechanics, or to muddy the waters. I predict the first, for the logical knowledgeable scum tactic would be to first let the town swim in their speculations and delusions and let them nearly drown, then hold out a helping hand filled with lies and put them in the water again on the other side of the boat.

I have no real read on the Lord and on HP, Omtose.

[Galain]

Shadow, on Nov 12 2008, 01:11 PM, said:

@ Ruse:
With 22 players and 3 factions, multiple kills were to be expected, I think, just to thin the ranks more than in a normal game to get to mid + end-game at the same pace in days as in a standard game. DiBs also announced that not all roles would have their standard application, but some twists. Might be that a vig has a timer on which he must kill, or something.

OK, I quote you again, this time I'm not arguing but discussing

Dibs was promising an early game with low TMDI, i.e. town vs killers. 3 night kills on night 1 does NOT fit that bill, unless there's a bunch of vigs on 'shrooms out there.

There is a cult, yes, but cult usually don't kill. There is possession, yes, but unless Anomander decided to come back right away, which I doubt, it wouldn't have appeared as a kill.

Something is wrong here...

[Ruse]

Shadow, on Nov 12 2008, 01:11 PM, said:

@ Ruse:
With 22 players and 3 factions, multiple kills were to be expected, I think, just to thin the ranks more than in a normal game to get to mid + end-game at the same pace in days as in a standard game. DiBs also announced that not all roles would have their standard application, but some twists. Might be that a vig has a timer on which he must kill, or something.

As for people coming back from the dead: I don't know if there is a critical mass they need to achieve first. From what I gather from wiki, what the souls needed was not weight, but an opening in the fabric of reality or something to slip through. Second guessing that mechanic can only be done I think when we have a confirmed return, through find, reveal or lynch.

Fair enough. I myself have also been against the dead coming straight back to life theory, but I'm not immediately discounting it. I'm much more inclined to believe it will be the result of someone's actions here in the land of the living, but since there's no way of knowing what it will be, we're still pretty lost.

I thought there would be a high deathrate, but three kills is one more than I expected with an Ivet down. So either there were vigs acting last night, more killers than we initially suspected, or some other thing.

I know you're not supposed to read into scenes, but Barg and Tellan were killed the same way. Makes me wonder...

[Galain]

Shadow, on Nov 12 2008, 01:24 PM, said:

. There are, for me, two ties to Anomandaris, the first is Rashan,

Again, with your interpretation of things, which one?

[Shadow]

Galain, on Nov 12 2008, 06:24 AM, said:

Shadow, on Nov 12 2008, 01:05 PM, said:

Anyway, like I said: a lynch of Rashan will make a lot more clear. If he's not an Ivet (him coming up cult would be another fortunate incident), we can go back looking at Galain, cause the 'Rashan is Anomandaris' partner thing' then doesn't float anymore because there's no way Anomandaris could communicate with a townie or a cultist, and Galain's defense, which does partly rest on that principle, is then a bit more dismembered.

So, I'll let it rest from here, for now, and be a patient product of blocked sunbeams with an open mind for new possibilities.

Why would you want to lynch Rashan? Rashan is up there with Anomandaris mostly because of my interpretation of Ano's drunk post as "how did you guess I was partnered with Rashan?"

You say it's "how did you guess I would be drunk like Rashan?", which looking back makes more sense, I admit it myself.

In that case the person I would prefer lynched today, in connection with Anomandaris' killer CF, is Meanas.

There's of course good arguments to vote Rashan independently of Anomandaris, of course, but since we have a guilty CF I think we should explore those connections.

That's obvious, of course. We test the veracity of your claim.
If Rashan and Anomandaris are partners, as you read it, we know for certain after Rashan's lynch. If he comes up Ivet, I'll congratulate you and apologise for my misreading if the situation. If youre wrong, you can't hide behind that interpretation any more, and almost nothing remains.

Lynching Meanas does nothing to clear you or Rashan of guilt, which is what I want to establish. It just proves whether or not Ruse's theory on his absence during the vote and claim of RL web problems were a ruse or real.

So, lynching Rashan helps or falsifies my case on you. Lynching Meanas does nothing towards either goal, in my view, but please explain the why to me.

[Galain]

Shadow, on Nov 12 2008, 01:31 PM, said:

So, lynching Rashan helps or falsifies my case on you. Lynching Meanas does nothing towards either goal, in my view, but please explain the why to me.

So if I "outed" a killer by properly spotting his mistake, it makes me inno.

But if it turns out I "outed" a killer by misinterpreting his post, that makes me his partner? WTF?

[Ruse]

Shadow, on Nov 12 2008, 01:24 PM, said:

Ruse, on Nov 12 2008, 04:36 AM, said:

All caught up. Still not 100% sure what the connection between Rashan and Ano is, other than the one drunken post. Probably because I still have no idea what Ano was saying.

Now I think it's more than likely the Ivet know each other and have offthread comms. I didnt really see anyone defending Ano, so there's no obvious scum there.

Meanas jumped on another train despite the fact that Ano was the obvious lynch. Definitely suspicious, but he's site RL internet issues as his reason for not coming back and changing. There's no way we can prove him wrong, but he cant prove it either. Bit of a risky defense for someone who's obviously about to come under a lot of pressure. Smart scum would have cut their losses and put on their votes. So I dont know about Meanas - that would have been a incredibly stupid move for a scum to make, but it's not unheard of.

Rashan accidentally starting the train with a distancing vote is plausible, but again stupid. His vote was on Ano for quite a while iirc before the group of votes came in. In that time their was quite a bit of grumbling about Ano amongst others. Plenty of time to remove vote and try stop a train before it starts.

So not defending either of them, but if they are scum I have to say I'm disappointed as they've played poorly.

Last two or three votes are always suspicious, as they could be distancing votes once it's clear which way the wind is blowing. Omtose and HP dont strike me as killers, dont really have a read on Mockra. Still, I could be wrong and will go look over their posts in a bit.

The last option is that the other killers simply weren't around. I know I'm in that group, but I was one of the people grumbling about Ano (and Telas) before I had to leave for the night. With 10? other people, a lot of whom haven't said much, it will be difficult to find a killer there, although chances are at least on is.

Finding cult on a train against scum is difficult, as for all intents and purposes they would act like innos, maybe with a little less reservations. Maybe the people that tossed on votes near the middle without contributing much else. Galayn Lord springs to mind, as does Gamelon, but I will have to reread the end of yesterday to check.

Ok, those are my thoughts on the situation so far. Anyone else have any?

As it stands in the bold, it puts you down as belonging to a group of killers

I have no real clue to who's what. There are, for me, two ties to Anomandaris, the first is Rashan, the second (and I assume that this is not shared by everyone) Galain. Then there is the question why he symped Omtose, but that could be day 1 antics, and is a lesser priority for me, although one worthy enough to keep in mind.

Gamelon tickles my fancy, both due to the unnecessary reveal and to the reaction he then put up against the train on him, which wasn't so much a defense as singling someone out on the train, placing a vote on him, and shouting 'there's scum on my train, I know it, cause I'm RI, look, I said so!!' Eager to label people/ single them out seemingly at random, and I don't like that.

Meanas has been very, very helpful with book knowledge. Either willing to work out mechanics, or to muddy the waters. I predict the first, for the logical knowledgeable scum tactic would be to first let the town swim in their speculations and delusions and let them nearly drown, then hold out a helping hand filled with lies and put them in the water again on the other side of the boat.

I have no real read on the Lord and on HP, Omtose.

Lol, I meant the group of people who weren't around/didnt vote during the time that the Ano train was chugging away.

Like I said before Meanas's defense is a bit of a two edged sword. We cant prove he didnt have internet problems, he cant prove he did. He's still been pretty helpful and played it cool since then. Either a very smooth scum, or genuine. Doesnt explain why he put the vote on Tellan in the first place.

Also, Gam has been suspicious, but in a 'what's he doing?' rather than a 'lying/scummy' kind of way. A good backup vote if we're nearing the end of day with noone to lynch, but I'd rather explore other options first. Gonna go do a reread of some people's posts now.