[Shadow]

Galain, on Nov 12 2008, 06:27 AM, said:

Shadow, on Nov 12 2008, 01:11 PM, said:

@ Ruse:
With 22 players and 3 factions, multiple kills were to be expected, I think, just to thin the ranks more than in a normal game to get to mid + end-game at the same pace in days as in a standard game. DiBs also announced that not all roles would have their standard application, but some twists. Might be that a vig has a timer on which he must kill, or something.

OK, I quote you again, this time I'm not arguing but discussing

Dibs was promising an early game with low TMDI, i.e. town vs killers. 3 night kills on night 1 does NOT fit that bill, unless there's a bunch of vigs on 'shrooms out there.

There is a cult, yes, but cult usually don't kill. There is possession, yes, but unless Anomander decided to come back right away, which I doubt, it wouldn't have appeared as a kill.

Something is wrong here...

He also said that not all roles would appear as we know them. Cult roles and recruiter are also not in the list of roles, last time I checked.
I think he mentioned in the future games topic that the straight part was tdmi 6 or so?
Also, Tellan's removal sounds pretty much like a mercy kill to me. One night really is too early to conclude, I fear.

[Meanas]

My vote on Tellan was because I was annoyed at his attitude and was vainly hoping he may say something useful.

[Galain]

I don't give a shit about Shadow's "case" on me, although I start to realize I got lucky pushing for an Anomander kill based on a drunk post I probably misinterpreted.

That would make Meanas the one connected to Ano, more than Rashan. I used the "sorry real life" tactics often enough when it was convenient for me to disappear for a while. If it's true, then the bad timing sucked, but the game is young. If it's false, then we have another Ivet, or at worst a symp.

Shadow, does your case on me depend on the fact that you think I would push for a lynch on my own partner when he was relatively quiet on DAY 1 of a 22-player game? Or does it depend on the fact that Anomander's drunken post was actually a PM? I don't see anything else.

You keep stressing that there's 2 connections to Ano, Rashan and me, and now you use the fact that you want to lynch Rashan, which you don't think is connected to Anomander, to get me lynched tomorrow. You put Meanas way far down your list. That's the drop I need to

vote Meanas.

[Shadow]

Galain, on Nov 12 2008, 06:34 AM, said:

Shadow, on Nov 12 2008, 01:31 PM, said:

So, lynching Rashan helps or falsifies my case on you. Lynching Meanas does nothing towards either goal, in my view, but please explain the why to me.

So if I "outed" a killer by properly spotting his mistake, it makes me inno.

But if it turns out I "outed" a killer by misinterpreting his post, that makes me his partner? WTF?

Sigh. Again, no.

As I've been trying to argue: your reactions to the drunk post weren't exactly of the type: he's scum, jump on him, I'll place the first vote. You waited and mentioned it in three posts, and there * could * be a distancing or minimizing or damage control intention to it. EDIT: it was a monumental cluster fuck, after all.

Now, the follow up (lynching Rashan) tests your interpretation. If he IS Ivet, then your interpretation is correct. By definition, I'm more than willing to accept that the chance that you're Ivet (which is my theory), is close to zero. Says nothing about you being cult, though, so no, you're not suddenly an established townie. You're just a VPnaI (very probably not an Ivet. And if you are, you are sick to sacrifice two partners like that).

If Rashan comes up as anything but Ivet, your theory is wrong. Your interpretation is wrong.
Part of your defense against my "it is a misplaced PM to Galain" falls away: namely, the interpretation that he admits in the drunk post that Rashan's his partner, and it has been tested in the most definate of ways: by CF.
That doesn't make you guilty by itself.

You could have been dead wrong and so can I be.
What does stand then is that you are certainly wrong.
My theory that it was a misplaced PM and that your posts, accusation of Rashan as partner (with which you were the first, too) and vote were efforts at distancing/ damage control and that the drunk post was entirely meant for your eyes only is then still untested. But it might gain weight.

It can then be tested by lynching you, and it would close the current lines of enquiry into Anomandaris's likely partners, for which there are currently 2 suspects: Rashan and you (according to my modest minority of 1, that you do take very, very seriously).

Now, let's let this rest for now, or it will dominate the day and we'll learn nothing more, apart from the fact that our post counts go through the roof.

This post has been edited by Shadow: 12 November 2008 - 11:57 AM

[Ruse]

So I just did a reread through Galayn Lord's (9) posts here they are, along with thoughts.

Galayn Lord, on Nov 10 2008, 08:07 PM, said:

... wait, this almost seems like you can win by losing.

That is, if you're stuck in a powerless role you don't like, just get yourself killed, and come back as something more ... interesting.

And given that Josh and Co. are outsiders, I wonder if they're actually part of the Town in-game, or their own faction.

A little confused, but then we all were/are.

Galayn Lord, on Nov 10 2008, 08:07 PM, said:

Oh, and I have a decent avatar for a change. Sort of.

fluff

Galayn Lord, on Nov 11 2008, 01:06 AM, said:

Vote Gamelon


Not exactly hit-and-run on my part, I just think it's stupid for someone to come flying the oh-so-casual Inno reveal on Day One.

Amateurish, if they aren't really Inno. Dumb, if they are.

Votes Gam. Fair enough reasoning given, considering it's the first train of the day

Galayn Lord, on Nov 11 2008, 02:27 AM, said:

Gamelon, on Nov 10 2008, 11:22 PM, said:

vote Galayn Lord

Reasons: he joined my train but ensured he added reasoning that would make him look less scum. Not exactly hit and run? One or two made those alarm bells ring but he joined the train midway and supplied a soft limp wristed back hand.

And if I hadn't included that disclaimer, you'd be saying that it was a suspicious drive-by vote.

Whatever.

Get's a teensy bit defensive when Gam returns the favour. But Gam was being suspicious. Fair 'nuff

Galayn Lord, on Nov 11 2008, 11:14 PM, said:

Remove Vote

Vote Anomandaris



I'm still not sold on Gamelon - especially with his deflection back to me earlier. Not OMGUS, but deflection, claiming I was doing the very thing he then did.

But whatever, there's plenty of time to go after him, or not if a better target presents. I think he's more likely a Cultist than a Killer.

And I still think lynching Innos by accident is ... well, not bad for them - dying doesn't mean necessarily losing in this game, after all. I do wonder how long it'll be before someone gets bored and starts setting themselves intentionally up for a lynch, on the grounds that being a Possessed might be more interesting. I'm not there yet ... but it's a strange temptation.

This is one post that sparked my interest. Middle of the train more or less. Not much of a reason given. Seem very willing to put his vote whereever it is needed.

Galayn Lord, on Nov 12 2008, 12:38 AM, said:

Oh, good.

Now if only more scum will drink before posting, thing's'll move right along ...

... until they start coming back as Possessed, of course. I'm going to have to re-read the rules to see how the Town can ever win, if everyone that gets killed just comes back as a different faction. There's gotta be a check on that, beyond the vote by whoever to get a Possessed back in.

More confusion, but then noone really knows how possession works.

Galayn Lord, on Nov 12 2008, 12:39 AM, said:

Gamelon, on Nov 11 2008, 10:38 PM, said:

Fantastic!!! This is the best first day for me so far. Can not wait for tomorrow now. Good times. Well done to those that started the train on the mofo. So should we be looking at those that did not vote for him??

Yeah, that narrows it down to ... nine people.

What a crowded game.

States the obvious

Galayn Lord, on Nov 12 2008, 06:36 AM, said:

*crickets*

OK ...


In any case, I'm in favor of heading after Rashan. Anyone mentioned in Anomander's rather bizarre ramblings should be suspect. And we've already struck successfully once, why not again?

Hopefully, a little quicker this time, as should be usual for Day 2.

Stills seems pretty eager to lynch

Galayn Lord, on Nov 12 2008, 09:23 AM, said:

Galain, on Nov 11 2008, 11:18 PM, said:

Whaaaa?

I spotted the drunk slip and pointed it out to you all, you freak! biggrin.gif

That doesn't mean you aren't a Cultist.

As well - and this is more of a general statement - who did and didn't vote for Anomandaris shouldn't be held as relevant. We don't know if Cultists and Killers are aware of their team-mates, so for all we know, some of the people that voted for him thought he might be an Inno they could conveniently help dispose of, and some of those that didn't vote were holding back because they didn't want to attack a potential member of their own faction.

It's pretty dubious to act on the basis of who casts what vote, unless they let some info slip while casting it (that is, if the justifications they give are a bit over the top, or if they just vote without saying why).

Of course, I'm still all up for going after Rashan first thing first, when Day starts.


edit: Corrected some drunken grammar.

And this is the other post stands out. Obviously hasnt been following the game that closely. We're all pretty sure at this point that scum know their own faction. Muddying the water or just confused? Suggests that looking at the trains wont be that helpful, unless it's something obvious like a driveby. Still seems pretty eager to lynch whoever, and Rashan was the definite favourite at this point.

Hmm, after reading through all this, it doesnt really peg him as scum. Most of the people with similar postcounts have played similar games so far, dunno why he stood out to me more than the others. So I'd like to hear some thoughts, else I'm gonna see what else I can find.

[Shadow]

Galain, on Nov 12 2008, 06:45 AM, said:

I don't give a shit about Shadow's "case" on me, although I start to realize I got lucky pushing for an Anomander kill based on a drunk post I probably misinterpreted.

That would make Meanas the one connected to Ano, more than Rashan. I used the "sorry real life" tactics often enough when it was convenient for me to disappear for a while. If it's true, then the bad timing sucked, but the game is young. If it's false, then we have another Ivet, or at worst a symp.

Shadow, does your case on me depend on the fact that you think I would push for a lynch on my own partner when he was relatively quiet on DAY 1 of a 22-player game? Or does it depend on the fact that Anomander's drunken post was actually a PM? I don't see anything else.

You keep stressing that there's 2 connections to Ano, Rashan and me, and now you use the fact that you want to lynch Rashan, which you don't think is connected to Anomander, to get me lynched tomorrow. You put Meanas way far down your list. That's the drop I need to

vote Meanas.

Yawn... I want to lynch Rashan first because you (and several others) think he is the best follow up, and because I am not fully convinced I'm 100% right and that it was a misplaced PM, I just think I very well could be right.
If he's inno, he hasn't so far done a lot to defend himself, either, so I'm not going to shed a lake of tears over his demise.
Also, because so far, I am a minority in believing you could be Ivet, so pressing for your lynch is futile until everyone has seen Rashan's alignment for himself.

Once again, your defending yourself extensively here against a single person who has commented several times that he doesn't want this to overshadow the whole day, and who right now only responds to you. This is possibly my fifteenth post of the day or so and right now I am just replying to you. You're starting to smell of despair to discredit my theory when it is clearcut in its essence:

Shadow believes that the drunk post was a misplaced PM. Reason for this is the 'Are you allknowing? How did you predict I'd be feeling like Rashan?' (to put it in my own words) interpretation, when there has never been that prediction on topic.
If this is a PM, then the likeliest intended recipient is Galain.

2. Lynching Rashan will prove if the other line of thoughts (rashan is Ano's partner) is true or false, so let's do that first.

Now, I'm going for a good, long stroll in the sun. I'll be back only in a few hours. Hope the game will develop... cause this is becoming quite a monotony and sheer lack of will to read through all these back and forth posts will just drown my thoughts and point in spam.

This post has been edited by Shadow: 12 November 2008 - 12:08 PM

[Meanas]

Path-Shaper, on Nov 12 2008, said:

It is day 1, you have just under 2 hours remaining

There are 22 players remaining. 12 for a lynch, 11 to go to night.

11 votes for anomandaris - rashan, emurlahn, galain, serc, thyrllan, shadow, fener, galayn lord, gamelon, omtose, mockra
2 votes for rashan - telas, liosan
1 vote for emurlahn - D'riss
1 vote for tellan - meanas

This is about the time my internet connection fucked up and if you do not want to believe me fine. But from my point of view, with 2 hours left and Anomandaris at L-1, the chances of a lynch not occurring were minimal, now you people who say seem to think this connects me to Anomandaris because I did not vote for him? huh?
I feel insulted that you lot think I am scum and that I would have been stupid enough to make up an excuse to disappear, when it was blatantly obvious that Ano was going to get lynched.

[Shadow]

Oh, because I said I would:

vote Galain.

And now, I'm out.

[Ruse]

Right, I see where Shadow get's his interpretation from. But the post is pretty incoherent and more than a little ambiguous. I dislike plans where multiple people have to be lynched to prove someone's guilt or innocence. They waste time and very rarely give definitive answers.

I dont see how rashan turning up innocent means anything other than rashan was innocent. I see Shadow put his vote on galain, which I like.

In the meantime, let's put that on the backburner for a while. Lots of people still have to check in today. I'd like to hear their thoughts on the whole thing. I'd especially like to hear from Korv and Mockra, our current lowest posters. I made a semi case against GL. Any other thoughts for cases?

Edit - when I say I like Shadows vote, I mean in terms of vote for people you find suspicious, rather than some other person that may or may not prove anything.

This post has been edited by Ruse: 12 November 2008 - 12:39 PM

[Galain]

Shadow, on Nov 12 2008, 02:10 PM, said:

Oh, because I said I would:

vote Galain.

And now, I'm out.

No, you said you would vote Rashan

Urgh, ok, so it became clearer in his second-to-last post. He thinks Ano's post was a misplaced PM to me, his partner. And that I was doing "damage control" by pointing it out and voting him, ultimately getting him lynched.

Well, many posts appeared after the offending drunken post, and nobody cared. Not even Serc, who took a closer look at Anomander. On day 1, why would I "bring it out" like that, seeing the absolute lack of damage done at that point? Why would I not kept the pressure on Gamelon, who was a good lynch target in many player's minds?

As for Meanas, well, like I said, it could be a coincidence and you really had internets problem. Well, I can't know, so sorry, you're still a good target to me because of Ano's CF, better than most if we follow that angle.

Now, if we go back and relook at player's behavior unrelated to Ano, then there's other good candidates there too. Ironically, Rashan is one. I'm open to discussion, I just like to have a vote on.

EDIT: Also, his "psychic" comment fits perfectly with an answer of what I posted on thread, I don't see the need to bring up a mysterious missing PM. At least not to the point of voting me. Shadow, I hope as hell you're scum.

This post has been edited by Galain: 12 November 2008 - 12:43 PM

[Galain]

hmmmm, the dead alts are posting in spoiler heaven.

IT HAS BEGUUUNN!!

[Telas]

Rashan, on Nov 12 2008, 01:49 AM, said:

apologies for my absence, life is an unfortunate event that occassionally needs my attention.
We got ourselves scum day one, suitably awesome, It seems I am now chief suspect for some reason, based of the back of Rashans ramblings, well there not much I can say in defence of that, I know not his thought train, or motivation for said post.
although my vote remained on Ano, I still dislike telas for making mountains out of molehills

Mountains out of molehills? My original vote for you was based on you making a genuine vote for a nothing reason that could have been applied to a number of people at the time. A weak reason for my vote, I knew it was weak and said as much then. Whether that analysis was right or not is not particularly important because the reason I kept my vote on you the rest of the day was because of the way you reacted to having votes on you. You made the same sort of overreaction twice.

Vote Rashan

I still like this vote.

I feel the whole misplaced PM theory proposed by Shadow is ridiculous. It looks like an attempt to force suspicion off of Meanas. For that as well as Meanas's vote for Tellan yesterday and offering an unprovable defence I have Meanas as my second favourite for scum.

[Korvalain]

Sorry I haven't been around. Had a lot of work on and haven't had a chance to read or post.
Caught up now more or less, so thats nice work on Ano.

So its looking like Rashan or Meanas today. Galain also got a mention in Ano's drunk rambling post.

I'm probably leaning towards Meanas at this point, I don't like he didn't put the vote on Ano and instead moved to Tellan. What was it going to achieve moving to Tellan late in the day with 3 hours to go? I know he said he couldn't make it back with an hour and a half to go and I can sympathise with that. But 3 hours he's going to pressure someone? Yeah right.

And this is his reasons for not voting Ano.

Meanas said:

Anomandaris: Yeah, he has basically just lorded over us the fact that he has a better avi then us! Annoying yes, if he keeps it up I will happily vote for him.

Tellan: Ah just posting to avoid modkill! 'Hearts not in it' 'dont expect much from me' Thats not fucking playing damn it! Thats just annoying.

right now:

Vote: Tellan

Because fuck it even if Anomandaris is just rping at least he is trying and Telas and Gam may actually be worth having around, whereas Tellan just seems to be apathetic!

Ano was just RPing? His post didn't seem like it to me, or that he was trying to Lord it over us. More like Meanas was trying to halt the train.

Not sure when I'm back next so I'll put my vote on now.
Vote Meanas

[Rashan]

3 dead? not too surprising in a game this size, a trigger happy vig is an option there.
I've thought about the "smoking gun post" from Ano, now that I read it with a clear head, I see it as him saying "holy shit I'm loaded, now I know how rashan feels trying to post when he's tanked" but whom it was directed at with the psycic comment I havent decided yet, Galain is a hot candidate but I'll have to go back to the post and sscan its surroundings.
All in all I prefer a meanas vote for now, his "internet problems" resolved in too timely a fashion for my liking.
Holding off until I investigate ano's post more

[Meanas]

Korvalain, on Nov 12 2008, 03:13 PM, said:

Sorry I haven't been around. Had a lot of work on and haven't had a chance to read or post.
Caught up now more or less, so thats nice work on Ano.

So its looking like Rashan or Meanas today. Galain also got a mention in Ano's drunk rambling post.

I'm probably leaning towards Meanas at this point, I don't like he didn't put the vote on Ano and instead moved to Tellan. What was it going to achieve moving to Tellan late in the day with 3 hours to go? I know he said he couldn't make it back with an hour and a half to go and I can sympathise with that. But 3 hours he's going to pressure someone? Yeah right.

And this is his reasons for not voting Ano.

Meanas said:

Anomandaris: Yeah, he has basically just lorded over us the fact that he has a better avi then us! Annoying yes, if he keeps it up I will happily vote for him.

Tellan: Ah just posting to avoid modkill! 'Hearts not in it' 'dont expect much from me' Thats not fucking playing damn it! Thats just annoying.

right now:

Vote: Tellan

Because fuck it even if Anomandaris is just rping at least he is trying and Telas and Gam may actually be worth having around, whereas Tellan just seems to be apathetic!

Ano was just RPing? His post didn't seem like it to me, or that he was trying to Lord it over us. More like Meanas was trying to halt the train.

Not sure when I'm back next so I'll put my vote on now.
Vote Meanas

Thats me trying to halt the train? WTF?
I ignored the drunk post, because it was a drunk post, last drunk post I took seriously was the damn predator and the rest of his posts were him telling us his Avi was better than ours. Hmmmm..... does that make sense now.

And you do not like that I voted for someone else? At least I voted for someone.

[Rashan]

Anomandaris, on Nov 11 2008, 11:56 AM, said:

Surefoot Stout MGB For the win. goodtimes goodtimes.

shite even fucked up I'm pretty good looking, Galain now you have the lameerest avatar. Oh it was omtose i was a symping, you need to go back and reread that part me thinks. funny though are you phycic? how did you know i was going to feel like reshan. lol the bed is a calling. no votes for me. lets see what the morning looks like.

what a collection of garbage one had to wade through to even find this.
I assume surefoot stout mgb is the liquid that brought anomander to this drunkewn juncture.

Theres the bit that people seem to be debating, how did you know I was going to feel like rashan (reshan). Who is he addressing there? methinks Galain of the back of his now your avatar is the lame one comment.
As for the symping omtose, I dont know if this clears omtose as in ano was aware in his drunken head he was fake symping omtose, or he actually WAS symping omtose, I'm more inclined to lean towards he was fake symping and I'm putting omtose in my not ivets column for now. (doesn't mean he can't ba culterist type)

On my browse through to find this, I took note of MEanas as well, now he does seem very knowledgable (lucky form him I'm not a Sci-fi fan or he would have ruined several books for me from what I can gather.) He could just be a big fan or he could have been landed with an ivet/cultist role and decided he needed some thorough investigatoin to prepare for his evilness. I'm leaning towards the he researched it, for now, But I want to hear more from Galain for now, so
Vote Galain

oh and telas, igmeoy

[Galain]

Rashan, on Nov 12 2008, 03:50 PM, said:

Anomandaris, on Nov 11 2008, 11:56 AM, said:

Surefoot Stout MGB For the win. goodtimes goodtimes.

shite even fucked up I'm pretty good looking, Galain now you have the lameerest avatar. Oh it was omtose i was a symping, you need to go back and reread that part me thinks. funny though are you phycic? how did you know i was going to feel like reshan. lol the bed is a calling. no votes for me. lets see what the morning looks like.

what a collection of garbage one had to wade through to even find this.
I assume surefoot stout mgb is the liquid that brought anomander to this drunkewn juncture.

Theres the bit that people seem to be debating, how did you know I was going to feel like rashan (reshan). Who is he addressing there? methinks Galain of the back of his now your avatar is the lame one comment.

you have to be kidding me

[Fener]

I'm back temporarily.

I think we can, for the sake of sanity, assume one of those nk's were a vig. Barghast and Tellan are probably a scum kills, the low posters and all that. I'd guess D'riss is the vig kill.

The case on Galain seems solid to me, because one can interpret it as Galain wanting to distance himself from a fuck up and at the same time not making too much of a scene about it. It fits.

I don't really buy Meanas excuse - if we end up lynching him because his connection failed, then tough luck, it's mafia. And I would have believed him more if he hadn't turned up right after the deadline.

I'm willing to vote for either Galain or Meanas at this point, to me they're equally lynch worthy.

[Emurlahn]

Well, I definitely didn't expect 3 NKs, I'm hoping that at least one of them is a Vig because 3 kills a night from the killers seems a bit ridiculous to me especially as we got rid of one already so it would have been 4 which is mightily over the top . At the moment as I stated last night I can sort of the see the point behind shadows argument against Galain but that was a massive risk Galain took in bringing up that post like that if he was Anos partner. Now Rashan is obviously pointed to by Anos drunk post but I am unsure as to whether its because they both got drunk and couldn't post properly or its because he actually was symping him.
I'm not sure about Meanas, coming in and sticking a totally random vote on Tellan and saying he could be back to lynch Ano but not turning up does strike me as a bit iffy, also although I do remember him saying he had computer problems for most of that day I would have thought that knowing he could have computer problems he would have left his vote on the sensible target rather than the random one.

[Telas]

I really do fail to see how Ano's drunk post implicates Galain as being scum. The only way it can is if it is, as Shadow pointed out, a misplaced PM. For me that is too far-fetched.