[Serc]

Omtose, on Oct 28 2008, 02:28 PM, said:

If you don't want to randomly lynch, you've got to force a finder into revealing or a lynchtarget into revealing anyone but Sylar (realized it after I typed it in the earlier question, but didn't want to edit it ), then lynching. But, if you lynch Peter (or Claire), most of the unaligned roles will be pissed off beyond belief since their chances at recruitment into a victorious group just were cut back by 33%.
So, it still sounds pretty random all. The best bet is a finder as he or she can count on protection from Peter, but if one is going to reveal right now, I'll eat my keyboard.

not true - the company can only win once they have recruited all players with power. if we lynch claire/sylar and peter then they cannot win by that easy route and so we just hide until all of us have been recruited by them.

Think about it, if you are recruited by sylar your dead, but if hes lynched you have lost.

To be recruited by peter you need to be targetted by two factions.

The company is the only group that works independantly and that we survive with, once sylar and pater are dead the game is effectively over unless some players have wining conditions contrary to that. The company is the only viable solution for anyone in the same boat as me.

If sylar is removed first, peter wins, if claire is removed, peter cant win but can still recruit, but why would you want to be recruited by him, he will be looking to joint he company as well and will want to remove sylar so he cant win. When sylar is then removed, peter will just come forward as the company will want to recruit him and his only chance of voctory is with them.


the rest of us will have to do the same or lose. In fact if i am still alive at that point the company will need to recruit me and others like me to win. Its ando, suresh and simone who are fucked atthat point unless they pretend to be someone they are not.

[Omtose]

Mockra, on Oct 28 2008, 10:31 AM, said:

Emurlahn, on Oct 28 2008, 02:17 PM, said:

wow. I go away for a little while and people explode? I have to say I'm with Serc on this. His original reasons for voting Mockra were sound as it genuinly could seem as if Mockra was sticking a fake quote to Serc. And going back to edit something after people respond to it is a big nono.

But then Mockra freaks out completly. What is that? There's no reason to go off the handle like that I think. Sure Serc is agressive in his play, but he's not offensive and what he said certainly didn't deserve that reaction. In a normal game i'd advocate Mocker as the safest day 1 candidate for killer. Alas, this game doesn't work that way. Still. Mockra, relax.

And I'm in the camp that says no night. I can't remember that being a good choice ever.

I wont chill....the fucker spotted a mistake...i fixed the mistake, then get a high and mighty response that i shouldn't fix it...jesus, i explained that i fixed the mistake in the fixed post.
what is the problem...he is just pissed off because his vote now makes no sense....bah. In the end he is just worried about people perceptions of himself.

I on the other hand have no such worries, i couldnt care less what you people think of me.

For quoting reference, changed quotes are a righteous bitch. I prefer a wrong quote and a post containing the right quote over a changed quote.

[Korvalain]

alright to me it does look like, just randomly lynching on day one like normal could be very bad if by some fluke we hit sylar then peter wins and we've had a very boring game
So i am advocating going to night as well and hoping that the night we get some information form the night.

[Mockra]

Serc, on Oct 28 2008, 02:36 PM, said:

Omtose, on Oct 28 2008, 02:28 PM, said:

If you don't want to randomly lynch, you've got to force a finder into revealing or a lynchtarget into revealing anyone but Sylar (realized it after I typed it in the earlier question, but didn't want to edit it ), then lynching. But, if you lynch Peter (or Claire), most of the unaligned roles will be pissed off beyond belief since their chances at recruitment into a victorious group just were cut back by 33%.
So, it still sounds pretty random all. The best bet is a finder as he or she can count on protection from Peter, but if one is going to reveal right now, I'll eat my keyboard.

not true - the company can only win once they have recruited all players with power. if we lynch claire/sylar and peter then they cannot win by that easy route and so we just hide until all of us have been recruited by them.

Think about it, if you are recruited by sylar your dead, but if hes lynched you have lost.

To be recruited by peter you need to be targetted by two factions.

The company is the only group that works independantly and that we survive with, once sylar and pater are dead the game is effectively over unless some players have wining conditions contrary to that. The company is the only viable solution for anyone in the same boat as me.

If sylar is removed first, peter wins, if claire is removed, peter cant win but can still recruit, but why would you want to be recruited by him, he will be looking to joint he company as well and will want to remove sylar so he cant win. When sylar is then removed, peter will just come forward as the company will want to recruit him and his only chance of voctory is with them.


the rest of us will have to do the same or lose. In fact if i am still alive at that point the company will need to recruit me and others like me to win. Its ando, suresh and simone who are fucked atthat point unless they pretend to be someone they are not.

This i agree with

*checks quote marks*

[Serc]

Shadow, on Oct 28 2008, 02:34 PM, said:

Emurlahn, on Oct 28 2008, 10:29 AM, said:

Omtose, on Oct 28 2008, 03:17 PM, said:

Serc, why wouldn't you vote Sylar but would vote Peter? As an unaligned, either of them is a way to victory. Unless you think that Sylar's wincondition is the easiest to achieve, of course, and that you will be his target in one of the upcoming nights?

The best way to go forwards in this game is to lynch Claire, and then Sylar. That way we avoid anyone sudenly winning night 1, or something equally ridiculous.

If we do it that way, then I spose the only way for Peter to win is to eradicate the Company (as I somewhat doubt the company would just win by default once Claire and Sylar are gone) whereas the company needs to recruit all those with roles. That should even the playingfield for both sides and really make things interesting.

When it comes to lynching, I think that Mockra or Fener are good options at this point. Fener's explosive symping of Mockra seems to me to be the result of him knowing something about Mockra that we do not. Perhaps he is one of the unroled knowing the alt of his friend, or perhaps they are both in the company. I seriously doubt they are Peter and Claire, but if so Fener strikes me as the likely claire as Peter cannot know of Claire's identity unless the mods hates us.

Basically, I think both of them are good picks for the simple reason they do not seem to have any of the roles who's death will grant another faction an instant victory.

@ the Italicised part: to me it would make perfect sense that Peter knows Claire. how else can he protect her?
if Peter DOESN'T know Claire, that's not fair to him , imho, so we shouldn't count on it.

if peter knows claire he will protect her every night from sylar and win by waiting us out. the only way for the company or sylar to win is then get peter first and peter wont ever save or recruiot anyone else. Now peter could gamble night 1 that claire is safe, but his game is over if he gambles wrong and sorry but i just dont se ethat happening,its like healers in a merc game, as long as the leader is alive the healer heals them. It doesnt sit right in this games set up for peter to know claire. i mean noah HAS to know claire, its his daughter. It wouldnt make sense otherwise. You cant have loads of people knowing claire.

@shadow - cheers - totally missed that both times.

[Shadow]

hmm
company needs to capture either
1) peter, Sylar, Claire and Adam

OR

2) the rest of heroes (people with powers, however many there are), escluding the 4 in option 1/

so, IF we lynch Claire and then Sylar, the company no longer needs Peter and Adam.
ofc, with Hiro's time manipulation, I can't help but think he may be able to resurrect Claire? he was trying to save HER in Season 1, after all...

[Mockra]

Omtose, on Oct 28 2008, 02:39 PM, said:

Mockra, on Oct 28 2008, 10:31 AM, said:

Emurlahn, on Oct 28 2008, 02:17 PM, said:

wow. I go away for a little while and people explode? I have to say I'm with Serc on this. His original reasons for voting Mockra were sound as it genuinly could seem as if Mockra was sticking a fake quote to Serc. And going back to edit something after people respond to it is a big nono.

But then Mockra freaks out completly. What is that? There's no reason to go off the handle like that I think. Sure Serc is agressive in his play, but he's not offensive and what he said certainly didn't deserve that reaction. In a normal game i'd advocate Mocker as the safest day 1 candidate for killer. Alas, this game doesn't work that way. Still. Mockra, relax.

And I'm in the camp that says no night. I can't remember that being a good choice ever.

I wont chill....the fucker spotted a mistake...i fixed the mistake, then get a high and mighty response that i shouldn't fix it...jesus, i explained that i fixed the mistake in the fixed post.
what is the problem...he is just pissed off because his vote now makes no sense....bah. In the end he is just worried about people perceptions of himself.

I on the other hand have no such worries, i couldnt care less what you people think of me.

For quoting reference, changed quotes are a righteous bitch. I prefer a wrong quote and a post containing the right quote over a changed quote.

bah....

[Serc]

Mockra, on Oct 28 2008, 02:31 PM, said:

Emurlahn, on Oct 28 2008, 02:17 PM, said:

wow. I go away for a little while and people explode? I have to say I'm with Serc on this. His original reasons for voting Mockra were sound as it genuinly could seem as if Mockra was sticking a fake quote to Serc. And going back to edit something after people respond to it is a big nono.

But then Mockra freaks out completly. What is that? There's no reason to go off the handle like that I think. Sure Serc is agressive in his play, but he's not offensive and what he said certainly didn't deserve that reaction. In a normal game i'd advocate Mocker as the safest day 1 candidate for killer. Alas, this game doesn't work that way. Still. Mockra, relax.

And I'm in the camp that says no night. I can't remember that being a good choice ever.

I wont chill....the fucker spotted a mistake...i fixed the mistake, then get a high and mighty response that i shouldn't fix it...jesus, i explained that i fixed the mistake in the fixed post.
what is the problem...he is just pissed off because his vote now makes no sense....bah. In the end he is just worried about people perceptions of himself.

I on the other hand have no such worries, i couldnt care less what you people think of me.

listen, calling me a fucker because you made a mistake about me is just abit on the wrong side of playing for fun ok. That you make my vote look pointless was the response i gave you. take my statement about fener and his winning conditions, if he went back and edited that post to look like he didnt say what i commented on but something different, he could claim i was falsely harrassing him. you are just pissed off because you made a mistake and someone pointed it out. Dont call me a fucker just because you cant edit posts without making a fuck up.

[Serc]

Shadow, on Oct 28 2008, 02:42 PM, said:

hmm
company needs to capture either
1) peter, Sylar, Claire and Adam

OR

2) the rest of heroes (people with powers, however many there are), escluding the 4 in option 1/

so, IF we lynch Claire and then Sylar, the company no longer needs Peter and Adam.
ofc, with Hiro's time manipulation, I can't help but think he may be able to resurrect Claire? he was trying to save HER in Season 1, after all...

that stuff never worked in the show, i doubt he has that ability here.

[Mockra]

Shadow, on Oct 28 2008, 02:42 PM, said:

hmm
company needs to capture either
1) peter, Sylar, Claire and Adam

OR

2) the rest of heroes (people with powers, however many there are), escluding the 4 in option 1/

so, IF we lynch Claire and then Sylar, the company no longer needs Peter and Adam.
ofc, with Hiro's time manipulation, I can't help but think he may be able to resurrect Claire? he was trying to save HER in Season 1, after all...

yes the company needs peter and adam....they need everyone. So that would include them

[Omtose]

Serc, on Oct 28 2008, 10:36 AM, said:

Omtose, on Oct 28 2008, 02:28 PM, said:

If you don't want to randomly lynch, you've got to force a finder into revealing or a lynchtarget into revealing anyone but Sylar (realized it after I typed it in the earlier question, but didn't want to edit it ), then lynching. But, if you lynch Peter (or Claire), most of the unaligned roles will be pissed off beyond belief since their chances at recruitment into a victorious group just were cut back by 33%.
So, it still sounds pretty random all. The best bet is a finder as he or she can count on protection from Peter, but if one is going to reveal right now, I'll eat my keyboard.

not true - the company can only win once they have recruited all players with power. if we lynch claire/sylar and peter then they cannot win by that easy route and so we just hide until all of us have been recruited by them.

Think about it, if you are recruited by sylar your dead, but if hes lynched you have lost.

To be recruited by peter you need to be targetted by two factions.

The company is the only group that works independantly and that we survive with, once sylar and pater are dead the game is effectively over unless some players have wining conditions contrary to that. The company is the only viable solution for anyone in the same boat as me.

If sylar is removed first, peter wins, if claire is removed, peter cant win but can still recruit, but why would you want to be recruited by him, he will be looking to joint he company as well and will want to remove sylar so he cant win. When sylar is then removed, peter will just come forward as the company will want to recruit him and his only chance of voctory is with them.


the rest of us will have to do the same or lose. In fact if i am still alive at that point the company will need to recruit me and others like me to win. Its ando, suresh and simone who are fucked atthat point unless they pretend to be someone they are not.

Not sure if Peter can be recruited. Same for Sylar.

I think with Sylar out of the way, the game becomes an elimination fest between Peter('s faction) and Company, and Peter has a pretty good chance of winning that if he has a vig on his side and the company don't. Since abilities are removed once you're with the company, all it has is numbers and a few initial leaders with abilities, whereas Peter saving people is likely to work on more than kills, so he has plenty of triggers. It will become a race between Peter saving unaligned and Company rushing to catch him. Even if he is caught (all they need is one recruit revealing his identity, which they learn after being saved), then that does not remove the fact that Peter's henchmen have abilities and the captives don't.
Also, what if the Company's recruiter is eliminated, the one thing you didn't factor in yet?

[Emurlahn]

Barghast, on Oct 28 2008, 03:32 PM, said:

@ Emurlahn: And what if each faction has a winning condition we don't know of? They were too vague in the rules, with two many possibilities of a Day One win, do you really think Gem would let her quite long-delayed game end so easily? I don't think so. This is a complicated game and I very much doubt that we have been told everything, it's a mindfuck designed for WIFOM. We can't act hastily.

but we cannot base our games on the existance of victory conditions we have no way of knowing. We can only base ourselves on the information we have and go from there. Saying we should refrain from one action or another because there might be a victory condition we do not know of that will protect us or benefit from it is to my mind ridiculous

[Shadow]

hmm
if peter's "Saves" only work on NK attempts, it becomes a major guessing game for him, so we get some balance.
of course, as long as Claire's dead, it doesn't really matter to him--he's best off just revealing who he is and getting NK-ed by Sylar, who thus gets an easy win..

Edit: cross-post with Emur. this was @ Omtose.

This post has been edited by Shadow: 28 October 2008 - 02:53 PM

[Emurlahn]

@Omtose - I would reckon the company to have two recruiters. It won't be too much since players can actually escape from the cult on their own.

[Shadow]

Emurlahn, on Oct 28 2008, 10:49 AM, said:

Barghast, on Oct 28 2008, 03:32 PM, said:

@ Emurlahn: And what if each faction has a winning condition we don't know of? They were too vague in the rules, with two many possibilities of a Day One win, do you really think Gem would let her quite long-delayed game end so easily? I don't think so. This is a complicated game and I very much doubt that we have been told everything, it's a mindfuck designed for WIFOM. We can't act hastily.

but we cannot base our games on the existance of victory conditions we have no way of knowing. We can only base ourselves on the information we have and go from there. Saying we should refrain from one action or another because there might be a victory condition we do not know of that will protect us or benefit from it is to my mind ridiculous

well, even from what we know, I think there's too many risks of an early ending from a rando day 1 lynch.
that's why i'd also advocate for night.

[Omtose]

Shadow, on Oct 28 2008, 10:50 AM, said:

hmm
if peter's "Saves" only work on NK attempts, it becomes a major guessing game for him, so we get some balance.
of course, as long as Claire's dead, it doesn't really matter to him--he's best off just revealing who he is and getting NK-ed by Sylar, who thus gets an easy win..

The way it is worded in the rules, I think it is at the least recruit,kill and possibly guard.
It might well extend to finds too. After all, you can save someone from being investigated without the sentence looking like complete bollocks.

[Mockra]

Serc, on Oct 28 2008, 02:45 PM, said:

Mockra, on Oct 28 2008, 02:31 PM, said:

Emurlahn, on Oct 28 2008, 02:17 PM, said:

wow. I go away for a little while and people explode? I have to say I'm with Serc on this. His original reasons for voting Mockra were sound as it genuinly could seem as if Mockra was sticking a fake quote to Serc. And going back to edit something after people respond to it is a big nono.

But then Mockra freaks out completly. What is that? There's no reason to go off the handle like that I think. Sure Serc is agressive in his play, but he's not offensive and what he said certainly didn't deserve that reaction. In a normal game i'd advocate Mocker as the safest day 1 candidate for killer. Alas, this game doesn't work that way. Still. Mockra, relax.

And I'm in the camp that says no night. I can't remember that being a good choice ever.

I wont chill....the fucker spotted a mistake...i fixed the mistake, then get a high and mighty response that i shouldn't fix it...jesus, i explained that i fixed the mistake in the fixed post.
what is the problem...he is just pissed off because his vote now makes no sense....bah. In the end he is just worried about people perceptions of himself.

I on the other hand have no such worries, i couldnt care less what you people think of me.

listen, calling me a fucker because you made a mistake about me is just abit on the wrong side of playing for fun ok. That you make my vote look pointless was the response i gave you. take my statement about fener and his winning conditions, if he went back and edited that post to look like he didnt say what i commented on but something different, he could claim i was falsely harrassing him. you are just pissed off because you made a mistake and someone pointed it out. Dont call me a fucker just because you cant edit posts without making a fuck up.

I called you a fucker because you got all snooty with me.
Not because you voted for me. I said i dont care about your bloody vote.

I would have thought you WANTED the goddamn quote fixed FFS.
Since it was miss quoting you.
Then i get attitude AGIAN for doing what i thought you would want...god almighty.

Nothing i did was good enough for you it would seem. All i was trying to do was make you happy, see what happens...now your just a fucker. :gaes-orfantal:

SERENITY NOW....serenity now

[Serc]

true - but peter cant win if claire is dead, but wins as soon as sylar dies if claire is still alive. therefore the size of his faction is irrelevant to him and he isn't out to recruit people, merely to get sylar and protect claire. he can also only recruit when he blocks an action. i sylar attacked me, peter guarded/healed emurlahn and the company tried to capture mockra, i would die and sylar would get my power. mockra would join the company but emurlahn wouldn't notice anything had happened.

if noah is killed, then the company is fucked.

strangely when you said that it struck me that there is a slight flaw in the game, claire dies, peter cant win, and company cant win easy route. Sylar dies, sylar cant win. Noah dies, company cant win. maybe we need to vote nathan in as president then? joking of course

[Shadow]

^

imaginary rep for the Seinfeld quote.

ETA: yet another cross-post... @ mockra

This post has been edited by Shadow: 28 October 2008 - 02:56 PM

[Shadow]

Serc, on Oct 28 2008, 10:53 AM, said:

true - but peter cant win if claire is dead, but wins as soon as sylar dies if claire is still alive. therefore the size of his faction is irrelevant to him and he isn't out to recruit people, merely to get sylar and protect claire. he can also only recruit when he blocks an action. i sylar attacked me, peter guarded/healed emurlahn and the company tried to capture mockra, i would die and sylar would get my power. mockra would join the company but emurlahn wouldn't notice anything had happened.

if noah is killed, then the company is fucked.

strangely when you said that it struck me that there is a slight flaw in the game, claire dies, peter cant win, and company cant win easy route. Sylar dies, sylar cant win. Noah dies, company cant win. maybe we need to vote nathan in as president then? joking of course

i'm assuming that if Claire dies, Peter can win if Sylar kills him, no?
then he becomes part of Sylar.. unless I need to re-read the rules again..