[Aptorian]

No, it wasn't described in that way.

[Lisheo]

Ah, interesting. So chaotic magic at the least doesn't work with the FA.
When Calm does decide to meet up with Karsa, well... Wow. I can only say EPIC!

[D'rek]

It could be that the FA just responded to the K'risnan with sorcery or anti-sorcery of his own, and that the K'risnan wasn't good enough. Someone stronger

Spoiler

(like the Errant, for example)

would be strong enough magically to actually damange or even take out an FA magically)

This post has been edited by D'rek: 23 October 2008 - 01:34 PM

[Lisheo]

The great thing about SE is magic isn't just rock-paper-scissors, its quite possible that say, Rake, would be able to blast an FA to hell.

[D'rek]

Rake tends to blast everything to hell. That's not rock-paper-scissors, that's paper-nuke

[Iconik]

I miss Rake right now.

Minor Reapers Gale Spoilers:

Spoiler

I'm halfways through Reaper's Gale and still no sign of him. At least I get to read Tehol and Bugg go back and forth again..

Anyway, someone in this post had stated that the Imass hated injustice and that they fought for the well being of all the beings on the planet. I had disagreed with that at the time but a passage in Reaper's Gale concreted it all for me.

Spoiler

Someone (I cannot remember who) said that the Imass' infatuation with destroying the Jaghut was nothing but bloodlust. At first they were doing the noble thing by getting rid of the Tyrants...but no one wanted the Tyrants destroyed more than most of the Jaghut population. The Imass...in their bloodlust took it even further and just decided to get rid of ALL Jaghut. That's not honorable.

[Excellence]

They had just found out their deities were Jaghut masquerades having a good fun with them. They couldn't take the risk of more Tyrants appearing among them. Indeed the night Onrack cheated his wife for Kilava, 4 Tyrants were coming for the Imass the next day alone...

They might all seem affable now, but that's 300,000yrs later.

[Excellence]

Aptorian, what I said was from House of Chains, not The Bonhunters.

[Vallel]

I think Imass have been shown to be fallible enough.

The average Imass is a very powerful entity in the wider scope, then there are some Imass who rank among the truly elite of all the denizens of the Malazan world.

But the average Imass can be destroyed by any creature with the skill/strength to get past its weapon and inflict damage on its body.




Personally I think the Seguleh are the most overpowered characters, by far.

Erikson presents us with a race of warriors, strictly human, no warrens, no holds, no otherwise mentioned special abilities or factors.

Yet these humans can defeat beings that should be way above them, endure wounds that should cripple or kill a normal human, move at impossible speeds etc.

They are the most unbelievable characters and are in desperate need of a Dues Ex Machina to explain how they can do what they do.

This post has been edited by Vallel: 10 November 2008 - 03:17 AM

[Silencer]

D'rek, on Oct 24 2008, 02:43 AM, said:

Rake tends to blast everything to hell. That's not rock-paper-scissors, that's paper-nuke

Funnily enough, one of my friends invented a new take on rock-paper-scissors called nuclearbomb-foot-cockroach...

@Vallel - they are somewhat explained. They train from birth to be warriors, with unparalleled discipline. That allows them, mentally and physically, to take the extra wounds and move faster. There is nothing comparable to that in this world...except perhaps a few sects of monks/whatever - some of whom have been known to set themselves on fire and burn to death...without moving or screaming.

You also point out that the Imass are easily defeatable - if anything gets past their guard they die. Same thing with the Seguleh, if anything, they die easier than Imass. An Imass needs to get completely dismembered for it to be stopped...one shot to the throat or chest would take out a Seguleh. Your problem stems from the fact that we have seen 3 Seguleh so far...one of whom was the 3rd highest ranked, said to be able to challenge the first. So that is a very good reason (especially if you take into account what I said above), for his seeming 'over-poweredness'.

I think the Seguleh are actually talked up to be more than they turned out to be. Sure, against an average Malazan soldier or whatever, they would pwn, but they aren't that powerful.

And welcome to the forums, Vallel!

[Vallel]

Silencer, on Nov 10 2008, 02:57 AM, said:

D'rek, on Oct 24 2008, 02:43 AM, said:

Rake tends to blast everything to hell. That's not rock-paper-scissors, that's paper-nuke

Funnily enough, one of my friends invented a new take on rock-paper-scissors called nuclearbomb-foot-cockroach...

@Vallel - they are somewhat explained. They train from birth to be warriors, with unparalleled discipline. That allows them, mentally and physically, to take the extra wounds and move faster. There is nothing comparable to that in this world...except perhaps a few sects of monks/whatever - some of whom have been known to set themselves on fire and burn to death...without moving or screaming.

You also point out that the Imass are easily defeatable - if anything gets past their guard they die. Same thing with the Seguleh, if anything, they die easier than Imass. An Imass needs to get completely dismembered for it to be stopped...one shot to the throat or chest would take out a Seguleh. Your problem stems from the fact that we have seen 3 Seguleh so far...one of whom was the 3rd highest ranked, said to be able to challenge the first. So that is a very good reason (especially if you take into account what I said above), for his seeming 'over-poweredness'.

I think the Seguleh are actually talked up to be more than they turned out to be. Sure, against an average Malazan soldier or whatever, they would pwn, but they aren't that powerful.

And welcome to the forums, Vallel!

Thanks for your welcome and input.

Perhaps you are right. The Seguleh we have seen could literally be 1 in a million human beings. A convergence of genetics, natural talent and training producing almost supernatural ability.

This post has been edited by Vallel: 10 November 2008 - 03:12 AM

[D'rek]

Well Mok's younger brothers weren't supposed to be particularly super-amazing, but I figure they're trained extremely well in dodging all manner of attacks, so they're good at staying alive...

[Darts]

Aptorian, on Oct 23 2008, 07:01 AM, said:

Well, naturally the FA would beat them. The FA are the single most deadly thing I can remember the reader encountering in the books. They're magically resistant, they've got more dexterity and speed than Rodeo running from a skunk, their bodies have ironlike bones and super regeneration.

Didn't two demons kick a FA's ass in MT?
Well the first encounter involved Fear and Trull and some more Tiste Edur I think, but the only Edur who managed to hurt it was Trull who threw a spear at it. The demons then chased the FA til it jumped into a bottomless pit or something, and then pissed down that pit...

As far as I recall those two demons never got sent back, and they didn't seem to break a sweat taking on a FA... Now they were supposed to be princeses (SP?) where the other demons used in the war were "common folk", like Lilac who was a fisherman, and they were 2 on 1 but I got the expression that they had no trouble at all handling the FA.

[Vallel]

Darts, on Nov 11 2008, 12:07 AM, said:

Aptorian, on Oct 23 2008, 07:01 AM, said:

Well, naturally the FA would beat them. The FA are the single most deadly thing I can remember the reader encountering in the books. They're magically resistant, they've got more dexterity and speed than Rodeo running from a skunk, their bodies have ironlike bones and super regeneration.

Didn't two demons kick a FA's ass in MT?
Well the first encounter involved Fear and Trull and some more Tiste Edur I think, but the only Edur who managed to hurt it was Trull who threw a spear at it. The demons then chased the FA til it jumped into a bottomless pit or something, and then pissed down that pit...

As far as I recall those two demons never got sent back, and they didn't seem to break a sweat taking on a FA... Now they were supposed to be princeses (SP?) where the other demons used in the war were "common folk", like Lilac who was a fisherman, and they were 2 on 1 but I got the expression that they had no trouble at all handling the FA.

As you pointed out those two demons were in fact the tyrant overlords of that entire society of demons. Given how tough a commoner was compared to say the average human solider those tyrants were probably pretty damn powerful.

Like any other species the FA likely vary considerably from individual to individual. The chasm between a skinny mundane human male and Tayschrenn for example is enormous.
I think the general assertion is that even the most bottom of the barrel FA is a physical powerhouse, while the elite's of their race?, who knows how massive the power they might wield.

[Darts]

I agree! But as far as being the deadliest described I'm unsure.... What I really want to know is if these two demons still roam around? This might be described later, I've read about half of RG...

As far as they being "elite"; it doesn't say much of their general capacity since we don't know the FA's capacity. He might have been a "whatever titles the FA used" or he might have been a lowly farmer. And since they were 2 on 1 even that knowledge might be unimportant...

edited a whole lot of wrongness

This post has been edited by Darts: 11 November 2008 - 01:54 AM

[D'rek]

You'll see them again in RG

Spoiler

and one of them kills a much-loved marine of the 14th!!!
(Now don't you wish you hadn't read this? Heh heh)

[Jude]

The Imass are really only so over powered because there are so damn many of them. For instance, when they all showed up in MoI, I found myself saying "well that's it for the Pannions then." Ofcourse, another over powered race is definitely the KCCM. As far as physical prowess goes, I'm pretty sure they're second to none, then they've got their gravity magic. I'm actually having trouble wrapping my head around how the Tiste invasion was successful against them. God damn Tiste.

[Lisheo]

I can only guess, but the Tiste have probably more mages than the usual KCCM, who, it was said, had all their magic power channeled into the Matrons. Also, sound/gravity magic has only been mentioned as a possible weapon once, the Matron Death Cry, in MT. Which might just be a normal death cry lol. I doubt it would have as many destructive applications as Darkness seems to have.
There were a LOT more Tiste. And also some of them are draconean Soletaken. Dragons tear KCCM(minor spoiler)

Spoiler

(referred to as their children)

apart, I would guess.
Tiste had invested weapons, as shown by Ruin in MT.
True, the KCNR had skykeeps, but they and the KCCM were fighting each other at the same time, its said in one of the books.

[Grief]

Well, we dont know how great it is, weapons wise.
Yes, it can make ace fortress' but Tay dies quite some damage to Moons spawn, the seas pressure messes it up, and we are told that Omtose Phellack destroyed some.

Now, if Tay and co can do some decent damage to Moons spawn, a bunch of andii mages, plus Silchas, Scabby and probably some other powerhouses around, they're gonna beat it.

We don know if it is an effective weapon. The floating mountains, I think, were rituals or somesuch, not done by one person, certainly. Therefore, each one will have less power.
Id say that its powerful, but if you're making someone float, anf they're setting you on fire, weapons wise, they win.

Its also possible that the tiste had magical protection.

[Aptorian]

Well, Moons Spawn was said to have had all kinds of machinery inside it. The andii probably didn't know how to use a fraction of the Skykeeps potential