[kaf09]

Just regarding a throwaway comment in HoC, regarding the the relationship of Thyr and Tellan. The Queen of Dreams (T'riss) mentioned something along the lines of Thyr and Tellan being ever aligned (the inference, for mine, was towards Tattersail's postion as the new Imass bonecaster).

[fan_83]

there is the curious fact about the janghut, jhenna

she seems to be the reluctat guardian of deadhouse...and yet she let kellanved, dancer, surly, tay and co to stay in deadhouse without her being mentioned by any of the old guards... weird....

also temper seems to be a very powerful individual and he didn;t injure rood.. like he said the damage he did was equivilant to that of a wasp sting...

and his helmet is a very distinctive one.. I assumed that dancer rescued him due to recognition to the helmet and not the man...

and can we assume that temper has now become the new guardian of deadhouse with lubben ??

also how come the ice scpectres weren;t mentioned in the later books ? were they extinct by then ?? and how did tay know about osserc levle of power ? as he said that something is holding hte main force of the attack back and letting the leftover be handled by obo and argyle... and we know that its kellanved.....

so we can therefore conclude the long running debate of who is more powerful.. rake of tay..

rake = osserc.

osserc >>>>> tay

hmmm

[cauthon]

I've added an ICE article to the wikipedia -- feel free to add to it.

[kaf09]

Just regarding Dassem, it was quite an eye-opener in NoK to learn that he and Skinner of the Avowed has already crossed swords.

A question regarding Kiska's (later) identity - she seemed likely to have a brilliant career ahead of her as Tayschrenn's protege. But I can't think of a likely candidate among the mages and assassins and adepts we've met so far in the Erikson books. The only one who could vaguely fit the bill is Blend, one of the last survivors of the Bridgeburners, but I'm unsatisfied. Am I missing someone or something obvious? Of course it's conceivable that we simply haven't been introduced to Kiska yet as an higher echelon operative of Tayschrenn.

[vaiski]

quote:

Originally posted by Hetan:
but the rest does fit

Yup
Dassem with Rake's sword.. ahh I hope he goes after Laseen.

[kaf09]

@IH, you're right...The "fire" may have occurred after Dassem and his Sword were hors de combat. I cannot recall if the clash with Gryllen occurred "with the empire in Kellanved's time" or with Kellanved in person (my copy of DG is boxed up ready for moving). Of course, we still really have no idea of the timeline. When was 7 cities conquered? Aren (closest to Quon Tali? and the empire's centre) may have been conquered early in the emperor's reign. Hence the later Aren "rebellion" directly after which the Bridgeburners were formed and which clearly precedes Night of Knives. Did the assault on Y'Ghatan (correct spelling for once) represent a reconquest or the 1st conquest of that city by the empire?

So many questions. Anyway at least the circumstances of Dassem's assault on Y'Ghatan answers some of the vexing questions posed in the other forums, viz. why is there no longer a 1st sword? (because Surly wouldn't tolerate such a rival!) and I think it's fairly certain now who is Traveller (as someone remarked earlier and no prizes for guessing who).

[Morgoth]

quote:

Originally posted by Vaiski:

quote:

Originally posted by Hetan:
These sound more like a Tiste race characterisitic?

True. Was it male or female ? Cant remember...
Phaed or Nimander perhaps ?

I can't really imagine one of Anomander's children as a follower of the cult of shadow...

[Rich the Great]

quote:

Originally posted by Imperial Historian:
That's always puzzled me to, tatersails warren isnt so different from thyr, she wields telas which is surely simmilar light/fire? Personally i think it would make more sense if the warren anathema to her own was hairlocks, chaos, tays, thyr, doesn't make much sense...

I thought Tattersail was thyr, and Tayschrenn telas. Although, my personal theory is that because telas and thyr are so alike, that two positives, as it were, repel each other.

[Abyss]

I don't see how Corinn could be T'sail. Corinn has tattoos and was a bridegburner cadre mage, and was in Malaz at Ash's plan when NoK goes down.

Tattersail was a fifth [?] army cadre mage, no tattoos, and Laseen's purge of the magic in Malaz has already happened by NoK.

As an aside, Kellanved's reliance on Bridgeburner vets to back him up against Laseen says much about why Laseen may have been trying to kill the BBs off in GotM.

- Abyss, feels so special with all this knowledge.

[gyrehead]

Thanks korik, I didn't think we had seen him "on stage" prior to this (well openly as Ferrule) but I was not sure if there had been a mention of him at some point.

[Abyss]

Points, notes and responses....

Re: end bit - Anyone else read the bit where Kellanved entered the Deadhouse as K. trying to kill Kiska for having witnessed his entrance?

Re: Storm riders -The suggestion was that the Stormriders and Wandwielders were brought into the Malazan world by the Jaghut accidentally, and ended up stuck there. Subsequently, they were trying to get to the Deadhouse to get back to their world, and in the deal, free Jhenna from her forced Guardianship (she was so a former Tyrant). The interesting aside to this was at the end where the grandfather killed the beached Rider, who spoke a human language and bled red blood, like a human.

The fisherman Ascendent who held them back may have been a local (Malaz Island) aspect of Mael or similar, who was drawing on the local talent for power in keeping the Riders back until Surly had most of them killed. 'Chem' is mentioned as a god of the sea a couple of times. Could be him.

Re: Jaghut - Jhenna to Temper: "We sheilded your race from the Kchain. We gave you fire."... Whoa.

Re: Guardianship - Some confusion here. In DG, Moby takes on Guardianship of Tremolor, and presumably the empty suit of armour he finds was Jhenna's. And we see Gothos in Deadhouse. But in NoK Jhenna was Guardian of Deadhouse. Perhaps the Azath transferred Gothos, since Tremolor wasn't under at risk at the time. That said, Temper seemed to accept some form of Guardianship, but in more of the Kettle or Moby volunteer role, rather than Raest or Jhenna as conscripts.

Re: Kiska - great character. Well written. The main reason why i think this would have been a good intro-level story is that she serves as the 'narrator' with little more knowledge than the unfamiliar reader.

Re: patronship - not as term i think we've seen before. Similar to 'mortal sword', perhaps?

Re: Dassem and co. - great bits about this group. The description of the fight at YGhatan was brilliant. Edge and then Temper's fights against the YGhatan champion were amazing.

Re: Shadow cultists - I'm fairly it was Dancer who chatted with Temper after his fight with the Hound and recuse by the cult.

EDIT: It was Pralt - Dassem says so when they meet in the tower.

Not terribly clear whether the cult were Talon, altho some similarities were there.

Re: Hounds - those who attempt to conquer shadow end up its slaves. And according to Edgewalker the Hounds are such. Hmmm... maybe Dessimbelackis did try to conquer K Emulahn or Meanas after all.

- Abyss, giddy from info overload.

[Imperial Historian]

Well whiskeyjack refers to them looking through the red hot rubble for dassems body... which suggests that something involving sorcery must have occured... hmm the "official" story we hear from temper which lasseen spread didn't mention any sorcery though...

Isn't there a mention of kelvanned confronting gryllen at y'ghatan though? which may mean it occured at another time?

Puzzling that....

[Abyss]

Kellanved is sort of the Kaiser Soze of the Malazan world, no?

He's shady, he dissappears, comes back for one grand scheme, and then 'poof', he's gone. Except for the whole running a warren and having custody of a few Thornes that were lying around thing.

- Abyss, convinced the world he didn't exist.

[Imperial Historian]

You can order in the states from clarkesworld books, though i'm not sure if they have any copies left.

Aside from that, i think nightshade books who did blood follows fro the states were looking at doing a printrun of nok, but you'd have to email them for any timeline on that.

quote:

Which begs the question why did Tattersail think of it as anathema to her own?

That's always puzzled me to, tatersails warren isnt so different from thyr, she wields telas which is surely simmilar light/fire? Personally i think it would make more sense if the warren anathema to her own was hairlocks, chaos, tays, thyr, doesn't make much sense...

quote:

And why would Tays swear upon the Nameless Ones.
I am wondering if he is part of them....but hiding it?

I noticed that two, thought it was puzzling... i don't think tays could be a nameless one if he was surely he would have been gone straight to protect the azath house? Why he swears by the nameess ones though i don't know, possibly it's a curse along the lines of hood's balls....