Malazan Empire: NoK info - SPOILERS! - Malazan Empire

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NoK info - SPOILERS!

#41 User is offline   Morgoth 

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Posted 25 May 2005 - 09:57 AM

I liked NoK, it was a bit stumbeling in the begining, but got better as it moved along.

The Dassem part was the best part, i've got to agree with that. Especially since it put Whiskeyjack's and thus Kallor's skill with a sword in a better perspective.

Also, I got the impression that Temper was the most competent fighter of in the sword. No matter his technique, he managed to hold of a champion assumed to be the better of all but Dassem. He dispatched an elite member of the claw in mocks hold with little difficulty. And most importantly, he stood his ground against a Jhagut tyrant (or so she seemed to me).
Also, Kiska i think it was, describes Temper as a huge man, and he is shown several times to hold an almost inhuman strenght.

Dassem being traveler fits even better now.
"What will you do?"
"Travel. Head West"
He just fits so nicely as Traveler.

Gothos can travel between Azaths, is it not then natural to asume that the other guradians can as well? If so the the female Jhagut could have come from any Azath.

As an end note, I think Ferrule is Barathol from the BH prologue. Ferrule is of Sethi heritage, Barathol is described as a tribesman from the south. Ferrule returned to his homeland, Barathol lives on the subcontinent. My knowledge of the timeline is not perfect yet 11 years does sound fairly right to me. Also, Ferrule is described as a man fond of close in fighting, more a brawler than a swordfighter. An axe would be the right weapon for such a man I think. And he also has a special helmet, just like Temper Posted Image
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#42 User is offline   Folken 

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Posted 30 May 2005 - 06:02 AM

Answer my question damn you!...ANSWER!
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#43 User is offline   Imperial Historian 

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Posted 21 June 2005 - 10:51 AM

quote:
Kellanved 'annoyed' them by annexing Unta and ousting Price K'ass D'avore, who ruled there or was successor to the throne.


That's what i initially thought... but then we find that the d'avorans had rebelled previosuly and got beat by the untan royal house, and i think they were kicked of there lands then, u'd have thought kelvenned invading unta and defeating the royal house would have made them allies of a sort...

Perhaps the reason for the hatred is that kelvanned didn't return the land to them...

Corrin being tatersail... i don't think so, one we surely would have heard if tatersail had been in the BB's at any point, two tatersails first action in the service of the malazan empire was in the mouse, before Nok, after which she got shipped out... so i don't see her coming back to malaz so soon... plus corrin is a veteran, and you don't become a veteran in 6 months.

Good to see you've finally joined us Dakk Posted Image
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Posted 18 May 2005 - 10:46 AM

quote:
Originally posted by kaf09:
and I think it's fairly certain now who is Traveller (as someone remarked earlier and no prizes for guessing who).


Just a point here... I did mention before that the eyes are the wrong colour...of course it could be an editing error .... but the rest does fit Posted Image
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Posted 08 May 2005 - 10:58 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Imperial Historian:


As to temper, he's just a man with moderate ability with the sword who is quite strong, he's not going to be able to stand up to Rood a hugely powerful hound of shadow, he only managed to stand up to the jaghut because of the help of the azath in my opinion.


I rather think that as one of Dassem Ultor's bodyguard and a member of The Sword he had more than moderate ability ....and although he would never have defeated the hound he managed to hold it off a while longer than most others would have.


quote:
I wouldn't say that temper is now the azath guardian, seeing as he left the house, I think that role belongs to either jhenna still or someone else will take the role at another time.


I agree that I don't think Temper will be the guardian.

quote:
As to tays knowing the power of osserc, he doesn't, osserc is just rumoured to be the most powerful of mages, and so he assumed that only the most powerful of mages would have been able to hold it off, as he didn't think he could./]

Not sure why Osserc is in this discussion as he doesn't feature in the book?.

[QUOTE]And the guy who was holding off the storm was supposedly a simple fisherman, not kelanved, that guy intrigues me more than anyone else in the book who was he, why was he so powerful?


Of course he wasn't Kellanved... where did that come from?

quote:
Oh and tays seems to have a similar description, save his eyes are completely different, he has sunken black eyes, whilst banaschar has flaming eyes as I recall.


umm.. dark, black ringed eyes for Artan..
"something odd about the eyes, something vaguely fevered" for Banaschar.
I still think it's the same guy. People who are fevered do have dark rings round their eyes.... Posted Image
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#46 Guest_Mithfânion_*

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Posted 08 May 2005 - 07:28 AM

Temper took on Rood.........and he managed to hurt it before shadow acolytes called the hound off.... He also took on the Jaghut...and lived

There was another Jaghut then, besides the female Jhenna?

Also, exactly what info is given on Osseric and from whom does it come?

Anything on any of the other Founding races?

What's this about "Ice spectres"?

Did Patch say it was a character from NoK? I don’t recall.

Yeah, he did. Quote:

quote:
...in fact, there are story arcs which weave between the two authors, and they confer regularly...for example, there is a major character in NoK who turns up in BH (actually, some of the primary personalities in MBotF are in NoK)...yes, there will be additonal MBotF novels from CE...

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#47 User is offline   vaiski 

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Posted 22 May 2005 - 08:17 AM

Quick Ben noted in MoI that Blend has "raw put pure talent, right in her bones, and she doesn't even know it" so obviously not Kiska.

As for the duel, "Only Skinner had come away alive from their clash" - doesn't sound like Skinner had the upper hand to me.
Anyways, regarding whole best swordsman thing, I still hold to Brood's opinion. I'm not saying that he knows, has seen or heard about every swordsman out there but he does have a lot of experience of wars and battles.
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Posted 01 June 2005 - 12:47 AM

When Temper was healed by the Talon, this bit caught my eye....."unnaturally tall and slim, conversing in a foreigh lilting language that made Temper uneasy". These sound more like a Tiste race characterisitic?

Secondly - about Barathol = Ferrule, he is described by Temper as "as short, hairy and vicious-looking as ever". Does that fit with the description of Barathol?
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#49 User is offline   Imperial Historian 

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Posted 10 May 2005 - 11:36 AM

I have to say... after reading the bits in NoK that it is clear that dassem is teh vbets swordsman of them all, and is amazingly cool altogether.

NOW MAJOR SPOILERS, IF YOU ARE EVEN CONISDERING READING THE BOOK DONT READ THIS BIT AS IT MIGHT RUIN ONE OF THE BEST BITS IN THE BOOK FOR YOU

We basically see dassem fighting in seven cities, he and his sword go to remove the last champion of the seven cities cause, sturgen who somehow has the magical blessing which means he is amazingly fast. Dassem and sturgen duel, and during teh fight teh sword and dasseem are cut off from teh rets of the army, and during the fight he is hit by something, its not clear what, though it is suggested that it has somethign to do with the claw, anyway dassem is near mortally wounded, he manages to fend off sturgen, who then procedes to demolish most of the rest of the sword, before being stopped by temper long enough for the rest of the army to reach them. During this time whilst mortally wounded dassem easily manages to fight off all the seven cities veterans save sturgen the champion, which is pretty amazing.

After this dassem is brought back to the alazan camp, and is being "looked after" by surly and the claw. Temper and Ferrule the remaining members of the sword, join dassem in the tent, killing tehre claw gaurds on the way, lasseen leaves the tent and leaves her two top assasins and a few other claws in the tent to assainate temper, ferrule and dassem.

Temper realises that dassem will never succumb to hood, she hates him so much, so attempts to kill him hoping this will rouse him, dassem then knocks tmper out and procedes to kill all the claws in the tent, within a few seconds, which is again damned amazing, and one of teh coolest moments in the book. (Note: we say a couple of claws surrounded by the bodies of a few squads of veteran bridgeburners at one point, and the only reason the bridgeburners seem to have won is because one of them let off a cusser)

After that temper, dassem and ferrule travel off into the west, seperating along the way, dassem goes off to travel the world alone.

The ice warriors are the ice spectres yes.
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#50 Guest_Mithfânion_*

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Posted 09 May 2005 - 10:50 AM

*Ice spectres anyone....

And who are the sides opposing each other in this book..
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#51 Guest_Mithfânion_*

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Posted 11 May 2005 - 01:26 AM

Thanks for that Hetan.

This info on Dassem reminds me of Greymane for some reason, he's still so incredibly mysterious and possibly on a par with Dassem himself (according to Brood). I hope that character turns up soon.

BTW since this book seems to be very well received indeed it would be superb if ICE could get a contract for his own Malazan novels as well. You'd think Transworld at least would be interested....

ICE did say that he is currently rewriting the first novel, I wonder if this is because he knows it will be published or that he hopes it. In any case, I'm thinking that the continent of Assail that Erikson keeps referring to and that everyone is so eager to find out about, might actually be a part of ICE's game plan, since he mentioned in the interview that there are areas that Erikson still hasn't touched and probably won't unless he himself doesn't write them. Assail & Korelli would certainly qualify wouldn't they....
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#52 User is offline   vahlar 

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Posted 02 July 2005 - 07:54 AM

Does anyone else think Edgewalker sounds like a Tiste, perhaps an Edur being in shadow and all?
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#53 User is offline   gyrehead 

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Posted 20 June 2005 - 09:03 AM

I've got a couple of questions now that I read it and then gone back through after reading comments here and parsing through the five series books.

Jenna wanted the Ice to come through because she wanted it to free her, right? But I got the sense that this was a gamble on her part and that the Ice taking hold of the Deadhouse was not a sure "good" thing for her. Was she somehow responsible for the Stormriders attack? Or did she just sense it and hope for the best?

What happened to Ferrule? I have only read the series once and cannot remember if his fate was mentioned.

Do we know who or what is killing the Stormriders? For some odd reason unknown I thought maybe that was where Kellanved and Dancer were before their assault on the Deadhouse.

Is NOK the first in the series that ICE has planned or the bridge to that series with the first book being what he already has written? And has he ever refered to what the series would be called to avoid confusion?!

Overall I enjoyed the book very much, though it lurched a bit in the first half. The second half picked up and moved quite well. Though there were a couple of instances that a good editor could have helped. Some of the duplications in action seen through first Kiska's eyes and then Temper's eyes could have been a little less redundant and still manage to convey the information that each was privy to.
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#54 Guest_Kamek_*

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Posted 09 June 2005 - 02:57 AM

I've always thought the whole thing of warrens being anathema to each other was dropped in the long time between GOTM being written and the rest. We know there are lots of things in that book that Erikson would like to correct (god I hope for a rewrite someday), and I've always though that's one of them.

I certainly can't recall it being mentioned since. Feel free to correct me.
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Posted 09 May 2005 - 04:47 AM

Sooo, while I'm impatiently waiting for my copy to arrive and edging around this thread without actually reading ... maybe someone could post a bigger scan of the cover image? To help me waiting?

Posted Image
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#56 User is offline   Abyss 

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Posted 04 July 2005 - 09:07 AM

@Fist Gamet - re: Temper - him not realizing just how good he is was one of the things i loved about that character. The bit towards the end where Kiska watched him take on Possum and another Claw, and then we reread the same scene from his perspective, really made that point.

@Korik - re: patronship - i took patronship to mean a link between the warrior and the power behind him, god or otherwise. Much was made of Surger being a 'patroned champion', and when Temper stood against him, Ferrule later mentioned that people were wondering whether he was hiding a patron.

Re: Talons - i'm pretty sure the Shadow Cult existed before Dancer showed up and took it over. Pralt mentioned that the island belonged to them under the Shadow Moon for one night every hundred years or so, implying a longer existance than the Malazan Empire. My guess is that Dancer took over the cult to secure the link to shadow. He developed the Talons separately, altho apparently with some links. Curiously, some of Surly's Claws apparently joined the Cult, but did not become Talons.

Re: Edgewalker - hmmm.... interesting that some of you thought he was Tiste.

- Abyss, thought he was Jimmy Hoffa.
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#57 Guest_Mithfânion_*

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Posted 08 May 2005 - 10:54 AM

So what is the grand evil that has been unleashed?

Who are the sides in this struggle?
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Posted 10 May 2005 - 07:42 AM

Ice warriors are the Ice spectres then?

What is revealed about Dassem then? Do we get to see what happens to him, that is how he "dies"? Does he disappear and if so, how? Is he injured in battle and if so by whom?
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Posted 10 May 2005 - 01:08 PM

The other reference to the Storm Riders as they are also called is in Blood Follows... where Bauchelain is telling Reece that passage across the sea shouldn't cost them more than a jar or two of blood.. *chuckle*
Not sure if there are any more elsewhere though..?
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#60 User is offline   fan_83 

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Posted 10 May 2005 - 01:42 PM

Imp HIst: there has been plenty of hints dropped regarding the skill and power of daseemm.. so its not so surprising..
after all hes said to have grown enough in power to rival hood;s and he is teh malazan empire first sword after all... with a mage as powerful as tay and an assasin as good as dancer.. why would you think hes worthy of being called first sword..

but still hes cool...

can;t wait to see if hes traveller
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