[Mezla PigDog]

I always assumed the butter grease protects the bread from dissolving if the filling is moist.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Maark Abbott, on 23 October 2023 - 07:46 AM, said:

Wait, people don't butter a sandwich first by default?????

Apparently it's common practice in northern Europe (including France, Germany, the Netherlands, Poland, Russia, etc.) but so rare in the United States that it seems shocking to most people---and disgusting to many.

Wonder if it has anything to do with the misguided (now mostly abandoned) war on fat---the mistaken pseudoscientific idea drilled into our collective unconscious back in the 80's and 90's that eating fat will make us fat, and that fat is therefore inherently disgusting. But did the great divergence start before that?...

[Edit: whether consuming saturated fat clogs arteries or not is still disputed. There is scientific evidence both for and against.

Quote

Despite popular belief among doctors and the public, the conceptual model of dietary saturated fat clogging a pipe is just plain wrong. A landmark systematic review and meta-analysis of observational studies showed no association between saturated fat consumption and (1) all-cause mortality, (2) coronary heart disease (CHD), (3) CHD mortality, (4) ischaemic stroke or (5) type 2 diabetes in healthy adults.

Saturated fat does not clog the arteries: coronary heart disease is a chronic inflammatory condition, the risk of which can be effectively reduced from healthy lifestyle interventions | British Journal of Sports Medicine (bmj.com)

Quote

The concept that saturated fat causes cardiovascular disease by raising serum cholesterol is called the ‘diet-heart hypothesis’, a highly influential idea that has been a lynchpin of nutrition policy for some 60 years. This hypothesis remains today a foundation of public health policy, with nearly all dietary guidelines worldwide recommending a cap on saturated fat consumption as a primary measure of protection against heart disease. Over the past 12 years, however, there has been a major shift in scholarly understanding of these fats, with now >20 review papers, by independent teams of scientists, on the whole concluding that saturated fats have no effect on major cardiovascular outcomes, including heart attacks, strokes or cardiovascular mortality, or total mortality. National dietary guidelines have not recognized this new thinking on saturated fats, however, and continue to promote policies based on outdated or insufficient evidence.

A short history of saturated fat: the making and unmaking of a scientific consensus - PMC (nih.gov)

OTOH:

Quote

Much of the evidence [...] for a lack of association between self-reported saturated fat intake and coronary heart disease is observational, which is considered low-quality evidence according to best practice evidence-based methods due to the increased potential for bias in these types of studies. Indeed, one of the studies cited in the editorial noted the quality of evidence to be ‘very low’, indicating that the results are very uncertain.

A high-quality meta-analysis of available randomised controlled trials (which provide the highest level of evidence for cause and effect associations) found moderate quality evidence that reducing dietary saturated fat lowered the risk of cardiovascular events (for every 100 people on a lower saturated fat diet 7 of them had fewer cardiovascular events). However, there was no statistical effect on all-cause and cardiovascular mortality, risk of myocardial infarction, and stroke, compared to usual diet. The reduction in cardiovascular events was observed in the studies replacing saturated fat with polyunsaturated fat.

CEBM response: “Saturated fat does not clog the arteries: coronary heart disease is a chronic inflammatory condition, the risk of which can be effectively reduced from healthy lifestyle interventions” — Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine (CEBM), University of Oxford

]

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 23 October 2023 - 01:11 PM

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

OTOOH, the randomized controlled trials in question rely on self-reported compliance, which can be extremely inaccurate. Getting people to change their habits at will, or getting almost everyone to be honest about their failure to do so, tends to be difficult. So it is probably not high-quality evidence.

A more recent meta-analysis including the randomized controlled trials currently available found no association.

Quote

A meta-analysis of observational, prospective and randomized trials did not conclusively find any significant association between dietary saturated fat and risk for CVD, CHD, CV events or death.

[...] published in the European Journal of Preventive Cardiology [...]

"For decades, the conventional wisdom has been that the consumption of saturated fat undermines cardiovascular health, clogs the arteries, increases CVD risk and leads to heart attacks. This misconception, vilification and condemnation of saturated fat arose from the most comprehensive epidemiological population study, the Seven [Countries] Study [...] "This 'fat is deadly' message propagated in the media spread around the world, and fat, particularly saturated fat, was demonized since the Seven Countries Study. This misguided public health message led to confusion and doubt among patients, their physicians and the public."

[...] The findings were similar after review of randomized controlled trials.

[...] "This review shows consistency across studies and coherence of epidemiologic and experimental scientific evidence, providing powerful evidence for absence of observed cardiovascular harm of saturated fat,"

Meta-analysis: No conclusive link between saturated fats and CV risk (healio.com)

Saturated fat: villain and bogeyman in the development of cardiovascular disease? | European Journal of Preventive Cardiology | Oxford Academic (oup.com)

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 23 October 2023 - 02:11 PM

[Maark Abbott]

The US puts oxo onto custard creams so I don't take anything yanks say about 'disgusting' seriously.

Unbuttered sandwiches? Madness.

[Gorefest]

Hear hear. Weirdos.

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

Maark Abbott, on 24 October 2023 - 06:51 AM, said:

The US puts oxo onto custard creams so I don't take anything yanks say about 'disgusting' seriously.

They do what now???!

[worry]

The US has never heard of oxo or custard creams.

[Tiste Simeon]

TheRetiredBridgeburner, on 24 October 2023 - 08:19 AM, said:

Maark Abbott, on 24 October 2023 - 06:51 AM, said:

The US puts oxo onto custard creams so I don't take anything yanks say about 'disgusting' seriously.

They do what now???!

Indeed. That caused me to spit out my tea and exclaim "I say!"

(Apologies for the foul language there!)

[Tsundoku]

Tiste Simeon, on 24 October 2023 - 10:43 AM, said:

TheRetiredBridgeburner, on 24 October 2023 - 08:19 AM, said:

Maark Abbott, on 24 October 2023 - 06:51 AM, said:

The US puts oxo onto custard creams so I don't take anything yanks say about 'disgusting' seriously.

They do what now???!

Indeed. That caused me to spit out my tea and exclaim "I say!"

(Apologies for the foul language there!)

Steady on old chap.

Although a chap could argue a chap was so startled it might explain an involuntary, atypical outburst of invective.
A chap would of course try not to let it happen again.

[Maark Abbott]

worry, on 24 October 2023 - 10:35 AM, said:

The US has never heard of oxo or custard creams.

OBJECTION!

There is literally a dish called biscuits and gravy.

How can you have a dish called biscuits and gravy... if you've never heard of biscuits or gravy? A clear contradiction!

[worry]

Mods, we have a silly goose loose in the hoose. I repeat we have a goose loose in the hoose.

[Maark Abbott]

worry, on 24 October 2023 - 11:53 AM, said:

Mods, we have a silly goose loose in the hoose. I repeat we have a goose loose in the hoose.

I'm not a goose, I am This Banana.

[Tiste Simeon]

Well hold on a second. I don't think we can really blame those lot for having been lied to, thus leaving them not knowing what either biscuits or gravy actually are.

Because I've had the American version of biscuits and gravy and they are neither biscuits nor gravy.

[QuickTidal]

Tiste Simeon, on 24 October 2023 - 02:02 PM, said:

Well hold on a second. I don't think we can really blame those lot for having been lied to, thus leaving them not knowing what either biscuits or gravy actually are.

Because I've had the American version of biscuits and gravy and they are neither biscuits nor gravy.

American gravy is vile and you feel how bad it is for you when you ingest it. It's inexplicably WHITE (or beige really), and tastes like a salt slurry.


I'm glad Canada's traditional foods and condiments come largely from being in the commonwealth....this means I had like proper Yorkshire puddings made by my English/Japanese grandma and real gravy at holidays as a kid.

[Tiste Simeon]

As a general rule, if it's from Yorkshire, it's superior.

Like Yorkshire puddings.
Or Yorkshire tea.

Or me.

[QuickTidal]

Tiste Simeon, on 24 October 2023 - 02:30 PM, said:

As a general rule, if it's from Yorkshire, it's superior.

Like Yorkshire puddings.
Or Yorkshire tea.

Or me.

Agree.

I drink Yorkshire tea daily (it costs more here in Toronto than other teas, but it's taste is superior so it's worth it), and every year I make the Yorkshire puddings for everyone now that my grandmother has passed.

[Tiste Simeon]

QuickTidal, on 24 October 2023 - 02:33 PM, said:

Tiste Simeon, on 24 October 2023 - 02:30 PM, said:

As a general rule, if it's from Yorkshire, it's superior.

Like Yorkshire puddings.
Or Yorkshire tea.

Or me.

Agree.

I drink Yorkshire tea daily (it costs more here in Toronto than other teas, but it's taste is superior so it's worth it), and every year I make the Yorkshire puddings for everyone now that my grandmother has passed.

And I am your favourite person obviously

[QuickTidal]

Obviously!

[Cause]

My sister got diagnosed with adult adhd a while back and she says the medication has changed her life. Speaking to her recently she opened up about some things regarding how it helped her and how she struggled without. I recognized a lot of what she was saying and so I decided to speak to a specialist who gave me a script. There is apparently a huge genetic component that runs through families and beside my sister my dad was the worst procrastinator I ever knew. Its been a week and while I have to say its not a magic pill, I cant just take it and find myself working but it does seem to shorter the distance between thinking about 'I should do task A' to actually starting it and following through.

Truth is I did take a very low dose of ADHD medication before during my PhD. After I had to switch my thesis after 2 years because it hit a dead end I struggled with motivation and it was a really hard time for me. Probably the hardest of my life. I also knew that writing up my masters was a struggle and so when it came time to write my PhD I spoke to a specialist got a script took the pills, they helped and when I finished I stopped taking them because I didnt want to become dependent on a pill, or addicted, or spend my life using crutch. I wonder if that was a mistake. I got the pills more because I know people take them for cramming and to help academically and I felt like if I could take something to help me what is the harm but didnt really see myself as an adult with ADHD. I am definitely not hyperactive for one (which turns out isn't a necessary symptom despite being the H in the name). The pills helped though.

Even know I think its hard to know do I really have adult ADHD or would the pills just help anyone. I also think when seeing a specialist its kind of like how a hammer thinks everything is a nail. Whats the difference between lack of executive function and lack of motivation. What's a normal amount of avoiding undesirable tasks vs having an problem/inability to follow through on such tasks. What's the normal amount of inattentiveness during a zoom meeting vs a debilitating one. I have sat through hour long zoom meetings and not paid attention for even a minute, but I think some of these meetings do not even have a minute of content I need to know so... I did well in school but I never studied. I remember telling my English teacher once I didn't need to study English as I was a native speaker. I found science and biology easy and picked it up. I did really bad in Afrikaans and Hebrew, you cant pick up vocabulary without some study but I just attributed it to a poor ear and a lack of interest in learning a language I never once had to speak outside of a classroom. I was proud of doing well without having to work particularly hard. Just thought it meant I was smart. I wasnt winning academic awards but in my preferred subjects I was in the top 25% or higher. I remembers my first year at university was a struggle becuase suddenly that wasnt good enough, there was no way around being prepared for a test without studying the text book. Their were questions on things that the lecturer never discussed in class. The tests were on chapters 1-12 for example and self study was expected. I did manage to adapt and with all the homework and lab assignments 'I worked well under pressure'. Every assignment was started and finished the night before the due date which since I had 4 labs a week and one was due to basically every day of the week I never thought of as odd. Even now I like precise deadlines as they help me get things done.

As I said its only been a little over week. I dont sit down in front of my computer and knock out 8 hours of perfect work but I have managed to clean up my apartment better than usual having finally done a few low priority tasks that I kept putting off for later until next week became next month. I spoke to amazon and organized a return of a partially broken product that has I have been meaning to get around to for 6 months. I managed to finally organize building maintenance to come do a few fixes in my apartment. I have better organized some work I have been doing.

Given that it seems to help and assuming it continues to help I now cant help but wonder at the missed opportunity to have not been on the medication for longer or sooner. Given that I was able to be 'successful' I never really looked for a problem before. I am planning on keeping a close eye on how I am feeling and seeing if it really is making a differences. Some part of it may still be a placebo or just me makign the most of some early motivation at the start of something new.

[amphibian]

Having a diagnosis of a disability is an interesting thing because there is often a psychological component to accepting that there is an issue that can clash with the independence and self sufficiency that so many of us fiercely protect. Another wrinkle is that conditions can change over time, getting more intense or less and/or even both. Think of someone who has a bad back that gets better for a time, then worse, then better etc. The same can happen for other types of disability.

taking the medication now and seeing good results is a good thing. I'm sorry about the missed time before and if you can, try not to beat yourself up for leaving it off before. You're doing your best.