[Solidsnape]

Puckstein, on 05 June 2015 - 08:31 PM, said:

Tumblr. And people. If you put your opinion out there and call someone shitty, you'd better be prepared for someone to disagree. But no, omg, someone disgreed, so this is, like, totally pushing triggers, so, like, the best solution is to delete the relevant post and pretend it never happened.



Oh yeah, and also hayfever.

Shame that hand wasn't jade.

[Andorion]

So, the relative visits continue in the wake of my grandmothers passing and they are getting more and more irritating.

Yesterday, one group barged in at 7.30 AM. This was after a phone call the day before when they specifically said they would be coming after 8.30 AM. Having come at an odd time, they then expressed surprise that my brother was still sleeping.

Then we were visited by an elderly cousin of my mother and things got really bad. To give some context, my mother usually always wears the traditional indian dress that is the sari, even though more and more working women like her prefer a more updated hybrid dress like kurti-leggings or jeans. ( A kurti is like along flowing top that reaches to your mid thighs.) But on a vacation we recently took, we persuaded her to ditch the sari in favour of a kurtia nd jeans and she looked very good.

Now this cousin, after making small talk for 10 minutes, suddenly told my mother, that she had seen the vacation photos on facebook and she had seen my mother posing in that dress. She then went on to say in a rather contemptuous tone that my mother did not look good at all, that she should never wear anything else other than the sari. Then she went on to generalize about how the sari was the only apropriate dress for women, that nobody should were anything else, about how she had forced her daughter to always were a sari at all times and how she has trouble letting her daughter in the house now that she is married and no longer wears a sari. She went on to say she has trouble even looking at people who wear western dress as it makes her feel sick and how she could never let somebody like that enter her home.

Throughout this tirade, my mother sat silent and smiling and my father didn't comment as he usually stays aloof from controversy. I was having a lot of trouble restraining myself, but my mother always wants guests to be treated politely so I didn't say anything.

If this is the kind of compassionate visit relatives think appropriate after a death, I would gladly do without them

[Una]

Yep...sucks that you can't choose your family.

I also have a great deal of trouble biting my tongue, so I can imagine how that must have felt. I've got a sharp retort for every situation, but the last thing I'd want to do is be the one to start a feud within the family.

Maybe you should do like your brother and be "sleeping" when they come over. You "worked late" the day before or something.

[amphibian]

Eh, Indian/Nepali guest situations/rules don't usually allow for people missing the visit entirely. The kids are usually allowed to duck out after a quasi polite interval, but the house owner/family has to stay and host. There's the tea, maybe a snack and perhaps some family/recent past/extended family news talk to do in every single visit. Most visits last something like two hours at minimum.

And if things get real awkward, it's still tough shuffling the guests off without being outright rude. Especially if they are older, bc then they get extra respect and are more in control of the social agenda.

The reason why this is trickier than most Western situations is that South Asian families usually keep stronger ties to cousins and stronger host obligations. Bending or breaking these has more consequences - even if it's deserved.

I'm kind of profusive on this bc I just went to a distant cousin's wedding reception last night in Boston, three hours one way trip, with my family and some extended family. There were two hundred pls people at this thing and we had even more social visits this morning - three and a half hours worth.

Had five cups of chai in eighteen hours. Yoooo, no sleep.

[Andorion]

amphibian, on 07 June 2015 - 05:42 PM, said:

Eh, Indian/Nepali guest situations/rules don't usually allow for people missing the visit entirely. The kids are usually allowed to duck out after a quasi polite interval, but the house owner/family has to stay and host. There's the tea, maybe a snack and perhaps some family/recent past/extended family news talk to do in every single visit. Most visits last something like two hours at minimum.

And if things get real awkward, it's still tough shuffling the guests off without being outright rude. Especially if they are older, bc then they get extra respect and are more in control of the social agenda.

The reason why this is trickier than most Western situations is that South Asian families usually keep stronger ties to cousins and stronger host obligations. Bending or breaking these has more consequences - even if it's deserved.

I'm kind of profusive on this bc I just went to a distant cousin's wedding reception last night in Boston, three hours one way trip, with my family and some extended family. There were two hundred pls people at this thing and we had even more social visits this morning - three and a half hours worth.

Had five cups of chai in eighteen hours. Yoooo, no sleep.

This is something I am trying to change. I have never been a social person and o have been acutely uncomfortable at extended family gatherings, always preferring my small circle of friends. So I don't actually talk to many people. But at times like this I have to be physically present and hear them talk and specially for a few people just doing that can be horrific. We just got through a 5 and a half hour session of 4 back to back visits and now I feel like slamming my head against the wall until something gives.

The absolute worst part is that 80% of the visitors never turned up to visit my grandmother in the last decade or so. There have been 5 people I have never seen before in my life. If they couldn't bother to come when she was alive and would have appreciated the company, why this faux concern now?

[amphibian]

The surface reason is that they want to commemorate your gran and want to help you to be ok. Because death is never truly gentle.

The deeper reason is that they want to know that despite the loss, you're still aware that they are there as someone in their support network. You and they matter.

The deepest reason is that contracting the support network in case there actually is a need for it is a really good idea, even if the relatives aren't exactly competent or even caring. It makes sense on a social basis. The family will motor onwards haphazardly.

[Tiste Simeon]

Puckstein, on 05 June 2015 - 08:31 PM, said:

Tumblr. And people. If you put your opinion out there and call someone shitty, you'd better be prepared for someone to disagree. But no, omg, someone disgreed, so this is, like, totally pushing triggers, so, like, the best solution is to delete the relevant post and pretend it never happened.



Oh yeah, and also hayfever.

Yup. So far left on the Horseshoe theory they are effectively fascists that you are *literally* raping by disagreeing with them!

[Andorion]

amphibian, on 07 June 2015 - 08:36 PM, said:

The surface reason is that they want to commemorate your gran and want to help you to be ok. Because death is never truly gentle.

The deeper reason is that they want to know that despite the loss, you're still aware that they are there as someone in their support network. You and they matter.

The deepest reason is that contracting the support network in case there actually is a need for it is a really good idea, even if the relatives aren't exactly competent or even caring. It makes sense on a social basis. The family will motor onwards haphazardly.

This is correct in theory. In practice I know who comprise my support network and it's not these people. I said before we are a joint family. Few years back my father was posted across the country for three years, leaving my mother and e to take care of a house where two people were 80+ and the other two were 70+. I had just turned 18, my brother was 12.

Inevitably people fell sick and we did our best. Then my great-aunt, who was a spinster and lived with us, and was 90+ fell seriously ill. This was a wellknown fact. No one visted, no one even phoned. Only our very close circle, like my aunt, or my maternal grandparents cared.

Then one day the doctor told us she had to be hospitalised. In India its a tough and complicated process. We were refused by two hospitals. Finally we managed to get her admitted into a third grade government hospital, which lacked proper staff, infrastructure and facilities. Our only assurance was that we knew th main doctor there, but he was absent during the admission.

After we were through the bureaucracy, the rude and offensive staff who yelled at us for no good reason, we were given a prescription and told to purchase the medicines from a nearby shop. it was midnight. We had to wake the shop owner up. Then we had to take a sample of blood for testing to an outside lab. Finally when we thought we were done, a doctor told us to wait as they might need to administer an injection. It was 1 AM, we were standing in a deserted dark corridoor outside the wards, extra patients who could not get beds were lying on the floor. People were groaning in pain. It was just the two of us. I was 19. My mother who had been extra ordinarily strng, finally broke down and cried on my shoulder. I still remmeber what she said. That it just the two of us. Nobody else cared. Nobody came, nobody called. The sole exception was my maternal grandfather who called repeatedlyy and was ready to come. But he was 80 himself. How could we let him?

A couple of days later another of my relatives had to be hospitalised, in a different hospital. I remember my mother and I would rush out of the house at 4PM when the visitng hours started. We would go to the first hospital, get the list of meds for that day, run across the street to the shop, my mother would submit the prescription, hand over the money, and then run for the second hospital. I woul wait, pick u the meds, return to the hospital, submit them to the nurse on duty and then run bak to my house. I would have to cook fo rmy brother, for his tutor who came in the evenings, make up a scrath meal for my mother and me, all inside 1 hour and then return to the hospital for the evening doctors meet the waiting for which could drag on for hours. My college semester exams were on. I don't remember how I studied. Note, we do not own a car. All of this was done on foot or on public transport.

This sounds like a rant, and you may not want to read my personal stuff, but this is the reason why I no longer believe in my relative's support network.

This post has been edited by Andorion: 08 June 2015 - 02:27 AM

[Una]

Well, with that context, I am taking away just one main point:

All of these relatives were no help at all and now they have to gall to come round, drink your tea, eat your food, and insult you in your own house? After everything your mother went through? And she said nothing? You mother is clearly a saint.

[Tsundoku]

With guest rights come guest obligations. The first being politeness. Just because someone is a guest (and/or relative) in your house, does not give them the right to act like a dick. If anyone behaved the way you described in my house, they would be politely shown the door.

Must be a cultural thing, I guess. Although I always believed "respect your elders" shouldn't be confused with "put up with their shit".

Still, I'm not in Ando's shoes. If I was I'd be a lot warmer for a start. And Ando would be looking at me asking wtf was I doing in his shoes.

[Andorion]

@ Sombra, thanks for making me smile with that last line.

Don't get me started on elders.

And beneath this rage and anger there is just so much grief and regrets. There is this ceremony we do on the tenth day after the death. Essentially it is to ensure the peace of the departed soul.

One of the rituals involves token offerings of the things the departed loved. So we were discussing what to give today, and it was mainly food, as my grandmother loved to eat.
There were these chocolate pastries she loved and suddenly all i could think of was how long i had not bought any for her. I always thought later, and now there will never be a later.

I couldn't continue talking

[amphibian]

Andorion, on 08 June 2015 - 02:06 AM, said:

This sounds like a rant, and you may not want to read my personal stuff, but this is the reason why I no longer believe in my relative's support network.

That sounds like you getting incrementally used to life as it changes slowly day by day until your family's life is something that is profoundly different and really, really hard to do. I'm glad you all got through.

My father had to deal with something similar when we first moved to the US when I was a toddler. He was apart from his family for the first time and my mother's family was very little help at first, then a big help which went sideways after some time and then no help at all. My grandmother was very close to being an absentee slumlord in letting us use her house for three years, while she lived in California. She sold out the house from under us to hit the real estate market right and it was just as my father graduated college with no secure job, while my mother was working part time. My father went to engineering school full time, worked two part time jobs and worked with my mother to practice with me how to speak, how to lipread, how to deal with the equipment and doctor visits/emergency hospital visits a deaf and asthmatic child needs. I was too young to really pay attention to this, but now that I'm older, I realize the difficulty of all that and that my parents getting through this was amazing. My father holds a big grudge against my grandmother for this and other things she's done over the years and I understand that better now.

Since then, we have relied on my mother's family for nothing. No expectations, no requests and when they ask for help, we help what we can without putting ourselves in difficulty. That mindset has served us well and fortunately, my mother deals well with this by using the occasional long phone call with those she's close to and yearly trips to see her mother and sister for a week's vacation before coming back to us.

Since about 1992 onwards, my parents (and to some extent, my brothers and I) built a strong enough support network that when I had a lung collapse on me two years ago and spent a week in the hospital, I was never alone during visiting hours. Family came, friends came, sometimes seven or ten at a time. I had people calling to check up on me and my family, bring food to the house and so on. Most of them were Nepali, but the Americans and people from other places were gracious and kind and they all really did help us.

Things will get better and once these people leave, you can cut them out as much as you possibly can without repercussions.

[Andorion]

Ok, your child hood sounds really rough. Glad you got through it ok.

What you said about building your own support networks is exaclty what I think. You can't rely on people to help you just because you are related. For example one of the people who really helped us, who has always been there for us is a colleague of my mothers who has now become practically part of the family. We know that in an emergency he will be there for us. Similarly I know three of my friends will come to help if I call them. I know people say blood is thicker than water, but not always.

This post has been edited by Andorion: 08 June 2015 - 05:29 PM

[melonhead]

Andorion, on 08 June 2015 - 05:28 PM, said:

Ok, your child hood sounds really rough. Glad you got through it ok.

What you said about building your own support networks is exaclty what I think. You can't rely on people to help you just because you are related. For example one of the people who really helped us, who has always been there for us is a colleague of my mothers who has now become practically part of the family. We know that in an emergency he will be there for us. Similarly I know three of my friends will come to help if I call them. I know people say blood is thicker than water, but not always.

I believe there is a remixed version of that saying that says the opposite, it goes something like this.
"The blood of the covenant is thicker than the blood of the womb."

[worry]

Pretty gross sayings.

[amphibian]

Yeah, that phrase coiner needs to be sitting there, sticking a ruler into dozens of endometrial linings, blood drawn from onetime friends, blood drawn from strangers, and blood drawn from enemies and this trial has to be independently verified.

These things have to be done scientifically, yanno?

[Loki]

On a lighter note, my foot is itchy.

[melonhead]

amphibian, on 09 June 2015 - 03:12 AM, said:

Yeah, that phrase coiner needs to be sitting there, sticking a ruler into dozens of endometrial linings, blood drawn from onetime friends, blood drawn from strangers, and blood drawn from enemies and this trial has to be independently verified.

These things have to be done scientifically, yanno?

Thats how i did it. except i used a big knife to extract the blood.

edit: also, my stupid philosophy assignment is driving me crazy. Ive decided I hate philosophy. I used to love that class.

This post has been edited by melonhead: 09 June 2015 - 06:16 AM

[Gust Hubb]

melonhead, on 09 June 2015 - 05:00 AM, said:

amphibian, on 09 June 2015 - 03:12 AM, said:

Yeah, that phrase coiner needs to be sitting there, sticking a ruler into dozens of endometrial linings, blood drawn from onetime friends, blood drawn from strangers, and blood drawn from enemies and this trial has to be independently verified.

These things have to be done scientifically, yanno?

Thats how i did it. except i used a big knife to extract the blood.

edit: also, my stupid philosophy assignment is driving me crazy. Ive decided I hate philosophy. I used to love that class.

I really hate grossing placentas. Fairly simple, but leave blood everywhere.

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

Andorion, on 08 June 2015 - 05:28 PM, said:

Ok, your child hood sounds really rough. Glad you got through it ok.

What you said about building your own support networks is exaclty what I think. You can't rely on people to help you just because you are related. For example one of the people who really helped us, who has always been there for us is a colleague of my mothers who has now become practically part of the family. We know that in an emergency he will be there for us. Similarly I know three of my friends will come to help if I call them. I know people say blood is thicker than water, but not always.

We are currently finding this with my Gran. She's 90 and flatbound due to ill health, she only gets out occasionally when well enough for someone to take her out a short distance in the car. There's all sorts of family politics involved with my Dad and his siblings from when my Grandad died, but at the moment by Dad and Aunt do everything for my Gran and the other two never bother. I live 60 odd miles away and visit when I go home, and she sees far more of me than her two sons who both live no more than ten minutes drive away.

So in short, I agree with the building of own support networks and not necessarily relying on blood to be thicker than water (however you wish to go about proving that in the name of science!)

Still, I'm sorry to hear of both yours and Amph's situations.