[worry]

If you want an upswing on the GamerGate stuff, this might help your groove: http://www.twinfinit...games-industry/

[Illuyankas]

Haha, I was wondering who that was! I last saw that image of Sarkeesian and Colbert on the first page as a screenshot of a livestreaming site, where the comments were full of stuff like 'NO NO NO NO' and 'TRAITOR' and 'WHAT IS THE JEWESS[sic] DOING ON HERE' so this is quite nice to know.

[worry]

Yah the "Jewess" stuff isn't like majority GG but it comes up often enough to be a minor constant nevertheless. The knot between GG's right wing heroes, PUA/MRA types, and white supremacy collectives is in that shocking-but-not-shocking weird space given its anti-"SJW" misogynist roots.

For example (nsfw for language):

[Una]

Abyss, on 30 October 2014 - 07:51 PM, said:

You're not wrong... he's gone from Canadian multi-arts-media darling to Canada's biggest serial sexual assaulter (or something) in less than a week.


It's really something to see... as if his 'alleged bdsm attacks' have been TO's best-known-least-discussed secret for almost a decade.

Ewwwwww....

I don't work in media and I don't live in TO, so I most assuredly did not Know About Jian. The whole thing is all kinds of creepy. I can totally see if you were a young woman just starting out in that field and he's a Big Star, you would just chalk it up as a bad date, get the hell out, run away, and never look back. What's scary is that it turns out a predator can keep this going for YEARS.

[EmperorMagus]

Una, on 31 October 2014 - 05:52 AM, said:

Ewwwwww....

I don't work in media and I don't live in TO, so I most assuredly did not Know About Jian. The whole thing is all kinds of creepy. I can totally see if you were a young woman just starting out in that field and he's a Big Star, you would just chalk it up as a bad date, get the hell out, run away, and never look back. What's scary is that it turns out a predator can keep this going for YEARS.

What I find a problem with is people taking this to the media instead of the police. The woman are most probably saying the truth, but that does not mean that someone's life has to be ruined without it being a certainty that the someone is in fact, guilty. I realize this isn't the place to talk about this, but had to get this out. Because I find it disturbing that people all assume the guy is guilty, people are innocent until PROVEN otherwise, not the other way around.

[amphibian]

The police aren't the dramatic yet righteous problem solvers tv has built them up to be.

Going to the police means having to deal with invasive questions and tests, where there may not be obvious marks or remnants, at a time when being left alone seems like the best thing to do. Then it's a months or years long process which usually involves direct confrontation, social fallout and a ton of pressure on the victim to be the wounded angel when getting back to normal is probably the best thing to do.

I'm honestly amazed we get as many sexual assault victims complaining and obtaining formal justice as we do.

Yeah, slamming an innocent guy in the court of public opinion is bad. But enabling a system that incentivizes the silence of women in particular regarding assault and sexual assault is even worse.

I don't have the tools to accurately explain the above because I'm a large half white man in the USA. I don't have to deal with this as part of my life every single day like many women all over the world do. It's kind of life changing to realize that and start paying attention to what women have been telling us for so long: men are usually the most dangerous things in their lives and we've built ways of life that insulate men from the costs of that.

[amphibian]

Two women, one being my best friend and another a friend, have told me (and others) that they experienced direct assault and/or long term harassment. Neither went to the police because the law isn't built to easily handle what they experienced and because going to the police could mean escalation - heightening their risk of harm.

[worry]

People are presumed innocent in a court of law until they are proven to be guilty, and any legal outcome would be a reflection of the investigation and trial. On the other hand, if a woman is personally beaten by a man then she doesn't have to assume he did it. She should feel free to talk about it to whatever outlet she sees fit to do so, and be given the benefit of the doubt (no need for assumptions, and even as legal institutions respect his presumed innocence). When at least 8 unacquainted women describe similar events over the last decade, drawing a pattern of behavior, his employer should consider that a red flag and (re)consider their relationship with him, particularly when he's a voice/face for the entity.

[Mezla PigDog]

Slipped up with the dried habanero's while making a chilli last night. Great tasting chilli but oh the consequences today are horrendous.

This post has been edited by Mezla PigDog: 31 October 2014 - 08:49 AM

[QuickTidal]

worry, on 31 October 2014 - 06:30 AM, said:

People are presumed innocent in a court of law until they are proven to be guilty, and any legal outcome would be a reflection of the investigation and trial. On the other hand, if a woman is personally beaten by a man then she doesn't have to assume he did it. She should feel free to talk about it to whatever outlet she sees fit to do so, and be given the benefit of the doubt (no need for assumptions, and even as legal institutions respect his presumed innocence). When at least 8 unacquainted women describe similar events over the last decade, drawing a pattern of behavior, his employer should consider that a red flag and (re)consider their relationship with him, particularly when he's a voice/face for the entity.

9 women now, the latest of which has used her name and is a lawyer/author.

What upsets me is that I have a friend (who I'm not really close with anymore) who works in the TO music industry and she's kind of at least passing friends with him. I worry that she knew and passed it off as flirtation or something. Especially in the wake of Jann Arden apparently confirming that this has been a behind the scenes open secret about him. How many people just sat by and said nothing?

[Illuyankas]

The Jimmy Saville effect.

[Una]

amphibian, on 31 October 2014 - 06:18 AM, said:

The police aren't the dramatic yet righteous problem solvers tv has built them up to be.

Going to the police means having to deal with invasive questions and tests, where there may not be obvious marks or remnants, at a time when being left alone seems like the best thing to do. Then it's a months or years long process which usually involves direct confrontation, social fallout and a ton of pressure on the victim to be the wounded angel when getting back to normal is probably the best thing to do.

I'm honestly amazed we get as many sexual assault victims complaining and obtaining formal justice as we do.

Yeah, slamming an innocent guy in the court of public opinion is bad. But enabling a system that incentivizes the silence of women in particular regarding assault and sexual assault is even worse.

I don't have the tools to accurately explain the above because I'm a large half white man in the USA. I don't have to deal with this as part of my life every single day like many women all over the world do. It's kind of life changing to realize that and start paying attention to what women have been telling us for so long: men are usually the most dangerous things in their lives and we've built ways of life that insulate men from the costs of that.

I know that a man is innocent until proven guilty. That's pretty well drilled in since childhood. That's the standard in this country, and that is as it should be. The burden of proof is on the accuser, beyond reasonable doubt, and that is as it should be. But as soon as you bring in sex, then the one thing you absolutely must do is obtain consent. Both parties need to have it. It has to be unequivocal. If you're not sure that you have it, you don't have it and you should not proceed. If the other party is not sure that he or she has given it and you should not proceed. If the other party is unable to give it due to intoxication, being too young to understand, mental incapacity, or any other situation where judgement might be impaired, you don't have it. If the other party is scared that you might beat them up or kill them if they don't comply, then it doesn't matter if they are not physically resisting, that's still rape. We know this. Everyone but the most unrepentant sociopath gets that and understands why it has to be that way. The upshot of that is that it's up to the alleged rapist to prove that he did obtain consent. So practically speaking, the alleged rapist is innocent until proven guilty and guilty until proven innocent at the same time. I'm no lawyer, but I'm not sure how the courts resolve that disconnect.. I'm not sure how I resolve that disconnect. What I am hearing time and time again though is that if the case manages to make it to trial, the way it plays out is that the victim ends up having to prove that she did not consent. And from there, the deck is stacked against her. The first thing to do is always to discredit the witness or victim, and that always ends up meaning that the defence will immediately start painting her as a whore, as if that makes it ok. Something as normal as agreeing to go out on a date with someone means you must have expected they might try to sleep with you, so you must have been agreeing to getting punched in the head, violently choked, and forced to perform oral sex. Where in the real world does that actually work? Our world, apparently. I lost a little bit of sleep over it last night.

This isn't purely academic for me. I'm heading to the home of an apparently nice young man this evening. Our stated purpose is to watch a movie. If there's a little bit of a cuddle on the couch, I really won't mind at all. But if he gropes me, date's over. If he slaps me around when I tell him I'm not ready for that kind of touching, I'm getting out any way I can, but probably wouldn't head to the hospital unless I had visible, documentable injuries. If he rapes me, I probably would call the cops, after making my getaway and ensuring my own safety. But it would mostly be so they can open a file and take a statement. In my naitivete, I would probably figure that it's better to have generated a police report and end up not pressing charges than to want to press charges later and not have the police report to back it up. But you never know. I might panic, call a friend, and take a shower to clean the horrifying ick and memory of it, which is exactly the last thing you are supposed to do after an assault. Isn't it stupid that I have to worry about stuff like this, when I should be looking forward to a nice evening with the nice young man I know through a mutual hobby?

[Tiste Simeon]

It's interesting from a policing side. We are working very VERY hard to do better with DV related incidents and sexual harassment is a big part of that. We had a news report recently stating that reports of domestic/sexual assault were way up and the news made that sound like a bad thing. However I think it is good. Not that it is happening more: I don't necessarily believe it is actually happening more, but that more people feel they can report it. Sure it means way more paperwork for us (some of the DV policies implemented require big write ups) but things are - very gradually - changing. Traditionally, the police have not been very good with things like this but hopefully we are getting better.

[worry]

In the US reports did a spike after the Ray Rice (NFL player) video came out, and I agree with your perspective that it's actually a good thing, like a curtain being undrawn. Not sure we're getting any better from a police perspective, but with the size and sprawl of the US it's probably a mishmash place to place, ranging from pretty good forward steps to godawful horror show.

[Nicodimas]

Ummmmm..do you all really want to know about DV relationships and the level of manipulation....

Idk..tough call this is a learned and progressed ability by the perp and they know how to get away with...everything.

I agree with Tiste..small subsuction..but is is brutal if you have seen a --long-- term case. some people are total pieces of shit.

more education plz imho.

This post has been edited by Nicodimas: 01 November 2014 - 05:13 AM

[Nicodimas]

Messing with me:

I love my family they are amazing. I have six nephews and nieces... I am really blessed we get along and are awesome as a family.

Really fun cause they let me take them out and do the whole Halloween thing. but...then I felt like I missing out and messing up a part of my life. /grrrrr

This post has been edited by Nicodimas: 01 November 2014 - 05:10 AM

[worry]

Because you don't have kids? It's a tough call but you gotta side with not producing more fodder for the apocalypse. Not that I think they wouldn't stand a fighting chance, but even most well prepared people are unlikely to be in the 1-2% that survive. Just the sad odds.

[Nicodimas]

Its' tough i wanna have kids, but they totally dependent on ya..like really go out and hunt your own food. ya know?

They are somewhat tough at first cause you can't have metaphysical conversations about deep stuff. I have tried this often with my nephews and nieces with diagrams, pie charts, and graphs...

but lost them when I got excited...thought they were following, but you know..cartoons are cool stuff.

Advantages to having kids:

A) you get to have beings totally reliant on you
they love you 100% back..kinda like a dog..not a cat
C) You can totally brainwash em and make them believe in anything..see that..that's god he follows these rule i made up dont fucking piss him off.lightning.


Another disadvantage.

A)That whole girl part...right......but the good part is I can totally tell her the advantages of having kids on date one..see above ^ for details.

This post has been edited by Nicodimas: 01 November 2014 - 06:46 AM

[Nicodimas]

Allergies...Fing annoying. Go away.

[QuickTidal]

My stance on it comes from watching my mother be in an abusive relationship (the main guy she dated after she split with my dad, but prior to her meeting my stepdad and marrying him) This guy was both verbally and physically abusive and I was a scarwny little 13-year old, so when I found out I couldnt' do anything. My sister called the police and by the time they showed up he'd convinced my mom to deny anything happened. I also called them once and he got arrested (not for the abuse) but for sitting drunk in the car in the driveway. Basically throughout it all my mother just tolerated it, didn't report it, and we all lived through about 5 years of hell.

I wished she'd reported it, but I recognize how scared she was.