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Points, notes and responses....
Re: end bit - Anyone else read the bit where Kellanved entered the Deadhouse as K. trying to kill Kiska for having witnessed his entrance?
Re: Storm riders -The suggestion was that the Stormriders and Wandwielders were brought into the Malazan world by the Jaghut accidentally, and ended up stuck there. Subsequently, they were trying to get to the Deadhouse to get back to their world, and in the deal, free Jhenna from her forced Guardianship (she was so a former Tyrant). The interesting aside to this was at the end where the grandfather killed the beached Rider, who spoke a human language and bled red blood, like a human.
The fisherman Ascendent who held them back may have been a local (Malaz Island) aspect of Mael or similar, who was drawing on the local talent for power in keeping the Riders back until Surly had most of them killed. 'Chem' is mentioned as a god of the sea a couple of times. Could be him.
Re: Jaghut - Jhenna to Temper: "We sheilded your race from the Kchain. We gave you fire."... Whoa.
Re: Guardianship - Some confusion here. In DG, Moby takes on Guardianship of Tremolor, and presumably the empty suit of armour he finds was Jhenna's. And we see Gothos in Deadhouse. But in NoK Jhenna was Guardian of Deadhouse. Perhaps the Azath transferred Gothos, since Tremolor wasn't under at risk at the time. That said, Temper seemed to accept some form of Guardianship, but in more of the Kettle or Moby volunteer role, rather than Raest or Jhenna as conscripts.
Re: Kiska - great character. Well written. The main reason why i think this would have been a good intro-level story is that she serves as the 'narrator' with little more knowledge than the unfamiliar reader.
Re: patronship - not as term i think we've seen before. Similar to 'mortal sword', perhaps?
Re: Dassem and co. - great bits about this group. The description of the fight at YGhatan was brilliant. Edge and then Temper's fights against the YGhatan champion were amazing.
Re: Shadow cultists - I'm fairly it was Dancer who chatted with Temper after his fight with the Hound and recuse by the cult.
EDIT: It was Pralt - Dassem says so when they meet in the tower.
Not terribly clear whether the cult were Talon, altho some similarities were there.
Re: Hounds - those who attempt to conquer shadow end up its slaves. And according to Edgewalker the Hounds are such. Hmmm... maybe Dessimbelackis did try to conquer K Emulahn or Meanas after all.
- Abyss, giddy from info overload.
NoK info - SPOILERS!
#222
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Posted 17 May 2005 - 01:00 PM
Well whiskeyjack refers to them looking through the red hot rubble for dassems body... which suggests that something involving sorcery must have occured... hmm the "official" story we hear from temper which lasseen spread didn't mention any sorcery though...
Isn't there a mention of kelvanned confronting gryllen at y'ghatan though? which may mean it occured at another time?
Puzzling that....
Isn't there a mention of kelvanned confronting gryllen at y'ghatan though? which may mean it occured at another time?
Puzzling that....
#223
Abyss
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Posted 26 July 2005 - 11:18 AM
Kellanved is sort of the Kaiser Soze of the Malazan world, no?
He's shady, he dissappears, comes back for one grand scheme, and then 'poof', he's gone. Except for the whole running a warren and having custody of a few Thornes that were lying around thing.
- Abyss, convinced the world he didn't exist.
He's shady, he dissappears, comes back for one grand scheme, and then 'poof', he's gone. Except for the whole running a warren and having custody of a few Thornes that were lying around thing.
- Abyss, convinced the world he didn't exist.
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#224
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Posted 03 June 2005 - 10:47 AM
Well I think I said Tiste characteristics ......and the name was Pralt.
Interesting that they could call of the shadow hound..perhaps they were just Talon after all.
Interesting that they could call of the shadow hound..perhaps they were just Talon after all.
#225
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Posted 08 June 2005 - 11:22 AM
You can order in the states from clarkesworld books, though i'm not sure if they have any copies left.
Aside from that, i think nightshade books who did blood follows fro the states were looking at doing a printrun of nok, but you'd have to email them for any timeline on that.
That's always puzzled me to, tatersails warren isnt so different from thyr, she wields telas which is surely simmilar light/fire? Personally i think it would make more sense if the warren anathema to her own was hairlocks, chaos, tays, thyr, doesn't make much sense...
I noticed that two, thought it was puzzling... i don't think tays could be a nameless one if he was surely he would have been gone straight to protect the azath house? Why he swears by the nameess ones though i don't know, possibly it's a curse along the lines of hood's balls....
Aside from that, i think nightshade books who did blood follows fro the states were looking at doing a printrun of nok, but you'd have to email them for any timeline on that.
quote:Which begs the question why did Tattersail think of it as anathema to her own?
That's always puzzled me to, tatersails warren isnt so different from thyr, she wields telas which is surely simmilar light/fire? Personally i think it would make more sense if the warren anathema to her own was hairlocks, chaos, tays, thyr, doesn't make much sense...
quote:And why would Tays swear upon the Nameless Ones.
I am wondering if he is part of them....but hiding it?
I noticed that two, thought it was puzzling... i don't think tays could be a nameless one if he was surely he would have been gone straight to protect the azath house? Why he swears by the nameess ones though i don't know, possibly it's a curse along the lines of hood's balls....
#226
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Posted 10 May 2005 - 01:02 AM
Coolest scene : -
Temper attempting to stab an apparently dying Dassem to save them from the Claw...and the resulting fight..
..that gave me goose bumps
saddest.....
....their parting...
I wanted to shout Noooo.....! don't do this.
paradigm shift.....
....my thoughts about the character of Tayschrenn..
confusing moments .....
...the Ice warriors...
revelation....
...the spicy smell of the Hounds...
Temper attempting to stab an apparently dying Dassem to save them from the Claw...and the resulting fight..
..that gave me goose bumps
saddest.....
....their parting...
I wanted to shout Noooo.....! don't do this.paradigm shift.....
....my thoughts about the character of Tayschrenn..
confusing moments .....
...the Ice warriors...
revelation....
...the spicy smell of the Hounds...
#227 Guest_Dakkareth_*
Posted 12 May 2005 - 06:41 AM
Did I mention, that I hate you all?
#228 Guest_Kamek_*
Posted 12 May 2005 - 05:25 AM
That was a great read. Sure, it was expensive, but there's no way I could have taken missing out on this book (unlike Erikson's novellas, which I think you can skip quite happily if you want).
I think Osserc was only mentioned because his power is "fire" if you like, vs the ice of the stormriders. I don't mean in comparison to the Tayschrenn as he also uses a type of "fire" warren if I recall correctly, but rather to the person who thought he said it because Osserc is perhaps the most powerful mage.
I don't think Agayla is Jhess (not that I'm sure who that is, but the way you guys talk about her makes her seem like an ascendent) as from Tay's perspective we see:
"Tayschrenn damned the sorceress-she and all others aligned with the Enchantress-their eyes saw everywhere"
So it seems she has a patron, this Enchantress. Who is she though? The Queen of Dreams? Seeing everywhere seems to fit in well with the her the time we see her, as she saw things in her pool or whatever it was. Or maybe she's been mentioned elsewhere and I'm just showing my ignorance. I believe Agayla used Thyr at one point, so maybe that'll help identify the Enchantress, though seeing as Tayschreen also used Thyr despite Tellan (or is it Telas?) seemingly being his main warren, plus mnay, many other sshowing the ability to access multiple warrens, maybe makes that point useless.
The stormriders bothered me too for a while, they just didn't seem to fit in with the world we'd seen before. But then when their origins were revealed, I was much happier. Reminds me of the Crippled God.
Did we know Tayschreen used to serve D'rek, the Worm of Autumn, before whoever he serves now? Or maybe he serves no one now but the Empire. Anyway, he mentions D'rek as his "old master", and seems to even have stood before him in some form. Which I guess is no surprise given his power.
I too don't really understand what happened with the Deadhouse's Guardian. Jhenna is gone, that's pretty much certain, and Temper agreed to take her place and seemed to think he had no way of getting out of it...yet once everything was over, he just went back to Mock's Hold! Can you be a Guardian and walk around freely? Besides, not that long later we see Gothos as the Guardian. But we know he'd been in the Azath's service a long, long time, way back when Icarium tried to free him (though he didn't want to be freed) and possibly shattered Kurald Emurlahn. Did he switch houses when the Deadhouse was left without a Guardian? We know he wants the solitude the Azath provides, perhaps the Azath knows that too and let him move to another, unlike Guardians held against their will.
Oh and I'd also like to know if Jhenna was there when Kellanved and the rest occupied the building. Maybe she stood to the side under orders or some sort of compulsion from the Azath, and just hadn't been menitoned in the books yet. Or maybe she somehow stayed out of the way or hidden all that time.
I wonder if Shadowthrone truly doesn't know about whatever Edgewalker was talking about at the end, or if he does and doesn't care that he can't truly have the Throne of Shadow (as seems to be the case), as he and Cotillion have much more ambitious plans if hints are to be believed, and heading Shadowhouse is just a stepping stone. I guess the last person/thing to think they took the throne was a long, long time ago, as surely if it wasn't the House of Shadows would have kept appearing and disappearing in the Deck of Dragons and people wouldn't have expressed such surprise at the new house when Shadowthrone took over. Must have been before they could even remember.
The old man in the boat was interesting. Agayla says the paths to Ascendency are far more varied than Tay imagines when talking of him, so I guess that's a pretty major hint that he was an Ascendant. I'm not sure he'll even come up again though. I almost felt he was just a good, interesting side story to show that very thing (that there are lots of ways to ascend).
Did Dancer have access to a warren? I always thought he didn't for some reason and only gained "magical" abilities once he ascended. Then I thought he demonstrated it in NoK, only for it to turn out to be Kellanved projecting him, a favoured trick apparently. So I guess I'm wondering if there is evidence for or against in other books.
I thought it was very amusing how Dancer got into the Deadhouse as fast as he could, but Kellanved stayed cool and looked around first. I'm not sure if that's a sign of his arrogance, insanity or a mixture of both, but it was good.
I think that's all I have right now, and it's plenty.
I think Osserc was only mentioned because his power is "fire" if you like, vs the ice of the stormriders. I don't mean in comparison to the Tayschrenn as he also uses a type of "fire" warren if I recall correctly, but rather to the person who thought he said it because Osserc is perhaps the most powerful mage.
I don't think Agayla is Jhess (not that I'm sure who that is, but the way you guys talk about her makes her seem like an ascendent) as from Tay's perspective we see:
"Tayschrenn damned the sorceress-she and all others aligned with the Enchantress-their eyes saw everywhere"
So it seems she has a patron, this Enchantress. Who is she though? The Queen of Dreams? Seeing everywhere seems to fit in well with the her the time we see her, as she saw things in her pool or whatever it was. Or maybe she's been mentioned elsewhere and I'm just showing my ignorance. I believe Agayla used Thyr at one point, so maybe that'll help identify the Enchantress, though seeing as Tayschreen also used Thyr despite Tellan (or is it Telas?) seemingly being his main warren, plus mnay, many other sshowing the ability to access multiple warrens, maybe makes that point useless.
The stormriders bothered me too for a while, they just didn't seem to fit in with the world we'd seen before. But then when their origins were revealed, I was much happier. Reminds me of the Crippled God.
Did we know Tayschreen used to serve D'rek, the Worm of Autumn, before whoever he serves now? Or maybe he serves no one now but the Empire. Anyway, he mentions D'rek as his "old master", and seems to even have stood before him in some form. Which I guess is no surprise given his power.
I too don't really understand what happened with the Deadhouse's Guardian. Jhenna is gone, that's pretty much certain, and Temper agreed to take her place and seemed to think he had no way of getting out of it...yet once everything was over, he just went back to Mock's Hold! Can you be a Guardian and walk around freely? Besides, not that long later we see Gothos as the Guardian. But we know he'd been in the Azath's service a long, long time, way back when Icarium tried to free him (though he didn't want to be freed) and possibly shattered Kurald Emurlahn. Did he switch houses when the Deadhouse was left without a Guardian? We know he wants the solitude the Azath provides, perhaps the Azath knows that too and let him move to another, unlike Guardians held against their will.
Oh and I'd also like to know if Jhenna was there when Kellanved and the rest occupied the building. Maybe she stood to the side under orders or some sort of compulsion from the Azath, and just hadn't been menitoned in the books yet. Or maybe she somehow stayed out of the way or hidden all that time.
I wonder if Shadowthrone truly doesn't know about whatever Edgewalker was talking about at the end, or if he does and doesn't care that he can't truly have the Throne of Shadow (as seems to be the case), as he and Cotillion have much more ambitious plans if hints are to be believed, and heading Shadowhouse is just a stepping stone. I guess the last person/thing to think they took the throne was a long, long time ago, as surely if it wasn't the House of Shadows would have kept appearing and disappearing in the Deck of Dragons and people wouldn't have expressed such surprise at the new house when Shadowthrone took over. Must have been before they could even remember.
The old man in the boat was interesting. Agayla says the paths to Ascendency are far more varied than Tay imagines when talking of him, so I guess that's a pretty major hint that he was an Ascendant. I'm not sure he'll even come up again though. I almost felt he was just a good, interesting side story to show that very thing (that there are lots of ways to ascend).
Did Dancer have access to a warren? I always thought he didn't for some reason and only gained "magical" abilities once he ascended. Then I thought he demonstrated it in NoK, only for it to turn out to be Kellanved projecting him, a favoured trick apparently. So I guess I'm wondering if there is evidence for or against in other books.
I thought it was very amusing how Dancer got into the Deadhouse as fast as he could, but Kellanved stayed cool and looked around first. I'm not sure if that's a sign of his arrogance, insanity or a mixture of both, but it was good.
I think that's all I have right now, and it's plenty.
#229 Guest_korik_*
Posted 20 June 2005 - 07:56 PM
while i remember, i love the fact that aragan turned up again. i like it that ICE is carrying on that tradition
#230
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Posted 21 May 2005 - 08:57 AM
From waht we've seen of Tays so far he has always acted alone no bodygaurds, no one accompanying him, so its perhaps unsuprising that we haven't met kiska or his other bodygaurd.
Personally i think it goes back to the SE/ICE pact where they use the same world but not the same characters, Kiska may come into play in one of SE's later books, but i suspect that she is mroe likely to appear in one of ICE's.
As for kiska=blend, i doubt it.
And regarding the fact that dassem and skinner crossed swords... do you take that as meaning an honourable draw o,r skinner or dassem win but let the other leave?
Personally i think it goes back to the SE/ICE pact where they use the same world but not the same characters, Kiska may come into play in one of SE's later books, but i suspect that she is mroe likely to appear in one of ICE's.
As for kiska=blend, i doubt it.
And regarding the fact that dassem and skinner crossed swords... do you take that as meaning an honourable draw o,r skinner or dassem win but let the other leave?
#231
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Posted 09 June 2005 - 05:54 AM
Yeah, i just noticed that inconsistency, i always got telas and thyr mixed up...
So according to NoK tatersail and tays use teh same warren... do we get confirmation in MOI about what warren tays uses?
That would suggest people who wielded the same warren would repel each other more... btu all the squad mages in HoC use meanas so that doesn't quite work.
I think it's most likely that this is merely a GotMism as Kamek said...
So according to NoK tatersail and tays use teh same warren... do we get confirmation in MOI about what warren tays uses?
quote:Although, my personal theory is that because telas and thyr are so alike, that two positives, as it were, repel each other.
That would suggest people who wielded the same warren would repel each other more... btu all the squad mages in HoC use meanas so that doesn't quite work.
I think it's most likely that this is merely a GotMism as Kamek said...
#232
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Posted 02 July 2005 - 06:04 AM
Yes, agree with Abyss, the Riders were "alien" and were coming to Malaz Isle under the influence of Shadow Moon to either 1. Escape the Straits (as was suggested, iirc) or 2. Get to the Deadhouse.
Agayla tells us that this is only possible for the Riders because Laseen's purge against the local magery left them too weak to repel the Riders. The fisherman was one of the survivors of the purge (he was a wavesinger, or something like that), like Agayla.
Overall, quite enjoyable but a little dissappointed. I felt that the story got a bit confused at moments and I struggled now and then to follow ICE's writing (just a question of clarity, to my mind) but my main gripe was that the story was nowhere near exciting or violent enough. I mean, we never really saw any of these terrible "nightmares" and there was not nearly enough suspense or horror, imho. Following on from the SE tradition of hints and bluffs was welcome (and filling in a few blanks created by SE) and he did create a few excellent characters , especially Temper (that old sod had no idea just how damned good a fighter he was).
Lastlt, I might have missed something obvious throughout SE's books but I NEVER IMAGINED Kel...I mean, he ...looked like that!!!!
Agayla tells us that this is only possible for the Riders because Laseen's purge against the local magery left them too weak to repel the Riders. The fisherman was one of the survivors of the purge (he was a wavesinger, or something like that), like Agayla.
Overall, quite enjoyable but a little dissappointed. I felt that the story got a bit confused at moments and I struggled now and then to follow ICE's writing (just a question of clarity, to my mind) but my main gripe was that the story was nowhere near exciting or violent enough. I mean, we never really saw any of these terrible "nightmares" and there was not nearly enough suspense or horror, imho. Following on from the SE tradition of hints and bluffs was welcome (and filling in a few blanks created by SE) and he did create a few excellent characters , especially Temper (that old sod had no idea just how damned good a fighter he was).
Lastlt, I might have missed something obvious throughout SE's books but I NEVER IMAGINED Kel...I mean, he ...looked like that!!!!
Victory is mine!
#234
Therion
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Posted 03 August 2005 - 06:00 PM
I have a new (loony?) theory - could Edgewalker be Scabandari, resurrected in some form? Sure, he is walking Kurald Emuhrlan which would probably not be a fitting prison for someone associated with Shadow. OTOH, it would make a nice punishment if he were able only to guard, yet never take control of the warren (again?).
Is my mind playing tricks on me, or do I seem to recall that in one of Edgewalker's POVs it is mentioned that he tried to control/was in control of the warren once?
If he were Scabandari, him attempting to take control of Emuhrlan would imply that there was some higher power than himself, which would have to be Mother Dark. Maybe Kurald Emuhrlan was literally ripped from Kurald Galain, i.e. Mother Darks influence? And while Scabandari and the Edur had influence, the "creation" of the warren and its Throne did not necessarily imply that Scabandari would occupy it -- possibly due to the laws of nature/sorcery, or some action by Mother Dark or the Andii?
Is my mind playing tricks on me, or do I seem to recall that in one of Edgewalker's POVs it is mentioned that he tried to control/was in control of the warren once?
If he were Scabandari, him attempting to take control of Emuhrlan would imply that there was some higher power than himself, which would have to be Mother Dark. Maybe Kurald Emuhrlan was literally ripped from Kurald Galain, i.e. Mother Darks influence? And while Scabandari and the Edur had influence, the "creation" of the warren and its Throne did not necessarily imply that Scabandari would occupy it -- possibly due to the laws of nature/sorcery, or some action by Mother Dark or the Andii?
#235
Abyss
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Posted 04 August 2005 - 08:14 PM
Edgy did say he tried to control it once.
I would have thought Meanas didn't even exist as such when Scabby was shattered by the Elder Gods, but hey, a lot can happen in a few hundred thousand years. It could have existed as a fragment of KE even then.
I like the poetry of expansionist Scabby being forced to eternally walk the borders of a realm he could never control. The personality/attitude seems all wrong for it to be him, but again, a few thousand years can be excellent therapy for anti-social tendencies.
One also wonders where this tendency of Meanas to enslave those who tried to control it came from, and how the Hounds ended up in the same boat, but obeying Shadowthrone, unlike Edgy who told him to bug right off.
- Abyss, thinks Edgewalker needs a serious pedicure.
I would have thought Meanas didn't even exist as such when Scabby was shattered by the Elder Gods, but hey, a lot can happen in a few hundred thousand years. It could have existed as a fragment of KE even then.
I like the poetry of expansionist Scabby being forced to eternally walk the borders of a realm he could never control. The personality/attitude seems all wrong for it to be him, but again, a few thousand years can be excellent therapy for anti-social tendencies.
One also wonders where this tendency of Meanas to enslave those who tried to control it came from, and how the Hounds ended up in the same boat, but obeying Shadowthrone, unlike Edgy who told him to bug right off.
- Abyss, thinks Edgewalker needs a serious pedicure.
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#236
cowl
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Posted 04 August 2005 - 08:32 PM
Abyss said:
One also wonders where this tendency of Meanas to enslave those who tried to control it came from, and how the Hounds ended up in the same boat, but obeying Shadowthrone, unlike Edgy who told him to bug right off.
I didn't think that Edgewalker and Shadowthrone had met. if they had the it would have been Kellanved nyway wouldn't it as he hadn't taken over then. maybe edgewalker has to obey shadowthrone now he's in charge of the realm.
#237
Set'alahd Crool
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Posted 05 August 2005 - 02:48 PM
Edgewalker. I seem to recall something about him. Some rumour.....
It's gone again.
@Cowl: They meet alright. I got the impression that Edgewalker is a slave TO shadow rather than being a slave IN shadow. He's not shadowkeep's fulltime buttler, subject to its ruler's whims. He walks the borders of Emurlahn. And if Jhedel can be believed he's a lot more than your average god. Or was, at least.
Scabby? Maybe. Maybe not. That's one of which we probably will learn the truth. Edgewalker's identity, if he's not Scabby, might well remain a mystery.
It's gone again.
@Cowl: They meet alright. I got the impression that Edgewalker is a slave TO shadow rather than being a slave IN shadow. He's not shadowkeep's fulltime buttler, subject to its ruler's whims. He walks the borders of Emurlahn. And if Jhedel can be believed he's a lot more than your average god. Or was, at least.
Scabby? Maybe. Maybe not. That's one of which we probably will learn the truth. Edgewalker's identity, if he's not Scabby, might well remain a mystery.
#239
Abyss
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Posted 08 August 2005 - 03:10 PM
It's been implied, more than once, mostly in HoC, that the Hounds of Shadow were tied to Dessimbelackis, who was D'ivers, and who did have seven forms.
The theory that the Hounds are or once were some form of shapeshifter isn't TOO crazed.
- Abyss, some form of seatshifter.
The theory that the Hounds are or once were some form of shapeshifter isn't TOO crazed.
- Abyss, some form of seatshifter.
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