Malazan Empire: NoK info - SPOILERS! - Malazan Empire

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NoK info - SPOILERS!

#1 User is offline   Imperial Historian 

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Posted 22 May 2005 - 07:50 AM

i think kiska will remain a mystery for now...

And i sort of got the same impression as you for the duel between skinner and dassem... but there's nothing really to back it up... anyway interesting food for thought on the whole best swordsman issue.

And i want to know when ICE's novel already written novel is coming out...
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#2 User is offline   fan_83 

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Posted 09 May 2005 - 03:18 AM

Jhenna is no longer a guardian.. remmeber where she was taken below teh ground with roots....

thats the end of her

about the guy in the fishing boat.. hes dead.. remember agaryle and obo commenting about it , as to how he went out htere alone and his wife turned to ice.... I think taht said enough to confirm that hes dead..

I say that rake is more powerful than tay because, tay said that only osserc taht he know off could have hold back teh majority of the storm power and obo adn aragyle are just holding off the leftovers.. when tay lent his strength to hold it off, it took all of his powers to hold off the remainder, when osserc is thought by tay to be holding off the majority the hwole time.. adn as we know that rake is equal in power to osserc.. therefore rake much more powerful than tay

and I would think temper has either become a guardian or a nameless one,.. hes taken on teh role of those 2 guys who died stopping jhenna...
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#3 User is offline   Imperial Historian 

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Posted 17 May 2005 - 07:05 AM

Well i placed it as almost a year after the prologue of GotM, seeing as the slaughter in the mouse quarter seems to have been about a year ago, and the year is definitly the same... so my thought is gotm must have taken place in early spring, while NoK takes place in the winter of teh same year... but i've not got any quotes to support, i'll try and bear it in mind on my ext re-read.

Some inconcistencies being in GotM the commander of mocks hold is a fist not a sub fist as in NoK, to me it suggests that the events in the mouse quarter take place in the early stages of the korelian invasion, dassem has just died recently in the GotM prologue, so again that places events about a year before NoK, after the riots the old fist is relieved of command, sub fist takes over and mock's island becomes a backwater again.
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#4 Guest_Edge_*

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Posted 26 June 2005 - 11:30 AM

One of Dassem's bodyguards is called Edge Posted Image Posted Image

He dies Posted Image

Very confusing but very enjoyable.

I certainly wouldn't recommend this book to anyone who hadn't read at least as far as House of Chains. The numerous factions, the subtle differences between Rashan and Meanas, a lot of it would go over their head.

Dassem ia a great character. I hope he is Traveller now.

I got the impression that the Stormriders were an accidental creation of the Jahut's experiments with Ice. They were described as alien more than once.

The whole Guardian issue seems very confused. Temper seems a replacement for the Nameless Ones rather than a replacement Guardian. As for Gothos I always thought he was a willing guest/prisoner of the Deadhouse rather than a Guardian.
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#5 Guest_Kamek_*

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Posted 12 May 2005 - 06:23 AM

quote:
Kellanved and Dancer don't know as much about their realm as they think... remember the excerpt with Apt and boy.... he could see things that Dancer couldn't...


Yeah, I remember, and there's at least one other moment when their dominion was put in doubt (one of the Hounds obeying a Tiste Edur). I just wonder if they think they're fully in charge and don't realise, or if they know full well what's going on and don't care (because, for example, they have much greater ambitions such as ruling the entire pantheon).

quote:
.. and I thought he was looking around to make sure there were no observers left... hence his trying to get Kiska to cross the wall into the house.. Confused


Oh, he was. It's just the way he was so cool about it when still in the reach of the Azath grounds.
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#6 User is offline   Morgoth 

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Posted 25 June 2005 - 02:46 PM

Also, Kiska is a potential Mage while Lorn represented the polar oposite of magic.
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#7 User is offline   Folken 

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Posted 25 May 2005 - 10:35 AM

I seem to recall SE saying he really enjoyed one of the characters created by Esslemont, and that he/she plays a part in BH. Don't remember if he gave us an actual name, but any idea who that might be?
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#8 User is offline   Imperial Historian 

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Posted 08 May 2005 - 12:22 PM

quote:
I rather think that as one of Dassem Ultor's bodyguard and a member of The Sword he had more than moderate ability ....and although he would never have defeated the hound he managed to hold it off a while longer than most others would have.


Fair point, i meant moderate ability in the group of really good fighters like dassem, the avowed, segueh and co, in normal company he'd be damned good.

quote:

Not sure why Osserc is in this discussion as he doesn't feature in the book?.


Ceda bought it up, tays mentions that only osserc could have held back teh storm or something...

quote:
Of course he wasn't Kellanved... where did that come from?


no idea, ceda bought it up

quote:
I still think it's the same guy. People who are fevered do have dark rings round their eyes....


Hmmm possibly... we shall see, personally i hope they are the same person
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Posted 03 July 2005 - 08:47 AM

whatever..

his description gave that away.. Posted Image
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#10 User is offline   Imperial Historian 

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Posted 30 May 2005 - 01:50 PM

To be honest i have no idea...

Possibly Temper, who is linked to y'ghatan.

kiska, another possiblility if we meet up with tays.

Then there's the seti tribesman ferrule who was also in the sword, as he may be in the area.

Can't think of any other obvious figures...
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Posted 08 May 2005 - 02:19 AM

As you already know this book contains a lot of background information, and I mean a lot. Quite difficult to encompass it in one post so I'll start the ball rolling and pass it on..


1154th Year of Burns Sleep

Among the most interesting points to me -the 'death' of Dassem Ultor and how he and the remaining members of his sword escaped is covered.
Dassem's Sword is made up of Temper, who features prominently in the book, Hilt, Quillion, Point, Ferule and Dassem himself. They operate as a unit to entice out the strongest warriors of any opposing army.
To my mind that part in itself is so worth reading, that and the character of the man...
In fact there is quite a lot on Dassem Ultor and it's going to revive the entire Dassem = Traveller debate again Posted Image
Temper to Dassem "what will you do?" Dassem "Travel. Head west" Posted Image
but the eyes are the wrong colour!

Surly and the Claw, Tayschrenn, Topper, the Talon, all feature in the book..

New characters - Temper of course, Kiska a young female talent. An Imass type character called Edgewalker who patrols the borders of Kurald Emurlahn.. a sort of caretaker it appears. Another Jaghut Azath guardian - only this ones trying to get out!

There are two interesting 'powerful' people - Agayla a woman who has taken Kiska under her wing, and a man called Obo - not sure if Agayla isn't actually Jhess Queen of Weaving, but someone else might think differently.

There are the first real descriptions we've seen of Tayschren, Dancer, Dassem and Kellanved too.

We meet the dead Bridgeburner - the one with the scarred face from HoC and learn of his part in Kellanved's return and with him is Corinn a female of the Bridgburner mage cadre...

There are some Crimson Guard details to play with - the characters themselves don't feature, but we hear of Lazar and Halfdan and the ones slain by Dassem Ultor - Shirdar, Keal and Bartok - with Skinner being the only one to come away from their clash.

Tayschrenn features quite prominently and we get another glimpse of how much power he has.
His decription seems so like to that of Banaschar in the Bonehunters prologue...

Interesting pov from Edgewalker at the end... with reference to the throne.. '...how long would this one last? Why was it none of the long chain of hopefuls ever bothered to ask why the Throne should be empty in the first place?'

Anyway that's some stuff to start off with - it's a great read.
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#12 User is offline   kcf 

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Posted 22 June 2005 - 02:10 PM

I've been thinking on Kiska and who she may be in later books, and I keep coming back to Adjunct Loren. It's been a while since I've read GotM, but I think this fits well.

One thing that caught my eye in particular is that Adjunct Loren has talent but had never trained to use it.
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Posted 06 June 2005 - 11:53 PM

Re-read and a few items of interest..

In the grounds of Deadhouse – Kiska POV.
“Then, so quick and startling did it move, another figure-this one in rags, scarecrow thin and with elongated, oddly proportioned limbs – sprang like a striking snake from the ravaged mound and wrapped it’s arm’s around Oleg’s quarry”

Description similar to Forkrul Assail?


Oleg to Kiska “You were in Shadow. You met the Elder One?”
“Elder?”
“The one who watches the borders”

Is Edgewalker a forgotten Elder God?


When Kellanved arrived in the Mock’s Hold just prior to Surly’s attack– “An overpowering sensation of pressure bore down upon her like an invisible hand. She senses something enormous nearby, silent in the dark.....A gravid deadly presence too huge to grant her notice. She glanced at Tayschreen and saw him grimace........ A droplet of blood fell from his nose.”
This sounds remarkably like the scene in GotM when Rake arrives in Barruk’s house.


“She’d heard the the Queen of Dreams was a practitioner of Thyr”.... hmmm..interesting?
Corinn the BB cadre Mage’s warren was Thyr...
Tayschrenn is confirmed as using Thyr.
Which begs the question why did Tattersail think of it as anathema to her own?

Lots of Thyr in here.... Posted Image

And why would Tays swear upon the Nameless Ones.
I am wondering if he is part of them....but hiding it?


I don’t think the Guardianship Temper accepted was of guardian to the Azath House in the way that Raest and Gothos are. It was more like gatekeeper...which appears to the position Faro held. And after re-reading I would agree with whoever said it that the both Faro and Trenech may belong to the cult of the Nameless Ones.
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#14 Guest_Jesterxr71_*

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Posted 07 June 2005 - 04:29 PM

does anyone know if or when it will be available in the United States?
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#15 User is offline   Yellow 

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Posted 04 July 2005 - 09:57 AM

Kaiser Soze Posted Image
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#16 Guest_korik_*

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Posted 20 June 2005 - 08:01 AM

that was kurald thyrlan and tellan.
thyr and telas are the children of these warrens.
is there any rule that a powerful mage like tays cant have mastered two warrens within his long lifetime?

anyway just finished it - and really enjoyed it! ICE has a really good style.

few points, i'll add more as i remember them.

the crimson guard fought the malazan army to a standstill on 4(not sure of this number) continents. it seems as if the crimson guard are a pretty large organization. you have got to wonder how kellaved annoyed them in the first place

my view of the stormriders were as jaghut acolytes some sort of cult dedicated to jhenna, maybe her family?
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#17 User is offline   Fid 

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Posted 27 June 2005 - 11:32 AM

Not sure Corinn is Tattersail - as Tattersail was herself when the mages etc were cleared from Malaz City previously - in GOTM IIRC?
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#18 User is offline   kaf09 

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Posted 21 May 2005 - 11:24 AM

@IH, As far as Kiska = Blend is concerned, I doubt it too - I merely wanted to canvas opinion (if Kiska is indeed Blend she must have had a major falling out with Tayschrenn to end up in the Bridgeburners; anyway the details we've already read in MoI etc. might preclude her). Kiska might be well be a High Fist somewhere now.

As regards the duel between Skinner and Dassem, the feeling I got (and of course I acknowledge I might be egregiously wrong) was that Skinner was lucky to survive the encounter. Dassem was simply just too good, even survival against him was a mark of prowess (cf. Possum, or Whiskeyjack, whom of course DU was not trying to kill). Anyway I hope there are more novels from ICE.
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Posted 21 June 2005 - 10:09 AM

quote:
it seems as if the crimson guard are a pretty large organization. you have got to wonder how kellaved annoyed them in the first place


Kellanved 'annoyed' them by annexing Unta and ousting Price K'ass D'avore, who ruled there or was successor to the throne.

Edit: Arghh! It consumed my whole post apart from that last part above Posted Image

Anyway, once more:

Corinn might be Tattersail.

The stormriders are probably servitor creatures like the Nacht, created by Jhenna foreseeing the risk of imprisonment. Only the last scene in the book kinda confuses that nice and tidy theory ...

Tayschrenn could well have mastered Telas and have some skill with Thyr as well - Biditahl in HoC used Thyr, Meanas AND Rashan. And his being impressed by Tattersail's mastery might well be another pointer - to truly recognize a master, you have to be a student yourself ...
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#20 User is offline   Therion 

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Posted 02 July 2005 - 06:42 PM

re: Edgewalker - By impression & description (from Kiska's & Temper's POV) he seems to be Imass. And yet, ICE emphasizes that Edgewalker is not quite an Imass. But he's definitely no living Tiste.

BTW, can someone clarify Aragan and Jhess (Queen of Weaving) for me? Seems the next re-read of the BotF is due Posted Image.
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