[zwitterion]

By now we've had Felisin, Blend, Picker, Scillara and sundry extras hint at or flatout engage in lesbian action on stage - in fact there was a point where I felt like a book wouldn't go by without SOME lesbian innuendo, however minor. Thing is, 8 books in and I _think_ the only gay man we've seen so far was Gorlas - maybe - i mean, man liked to do challice in the butt, and she steals a line from Brokeback Mountain to describe it, but who really knows. So what's with that? In the US at least gay men : women is something like 4 : 1 so... you'd think at least ONE of his ridiculously detailed cultures would show some masculine gayness. It only bothers me because making a point of having women get it on for 8 books but not men seems like a kind of repetitive indulgence rather than cultural color. I spose only Blend and Pick are really bonefide homosexuals but still, it's a point which keeps coming up among women, and is utterly absent from the entire male gender in the malaverse..

[alt146]

Lol, lesbian is way hotter than gay.. That said, it's a pretty valid point, one for which RJ is also criticized.

I really cant think of male character who has done something overtly homesexual, may have missed something subtle. There are a couple of really close male bonds, but they dont come across as anything sexual. Deathskull from RG maybe? I was a little confused about the bit where they explain a deathskull is also a flower that only has male parts & they reproduce in some wierd way. THe whole gorlas/challice thing seemed way more a subtle form of abuse/display of dominance than homosexual urges. Who knows?

[Pig Iron]

The thought has crossed my mind several times that you could give a different reading to the mutual "admiration" between all these superinvincible guys with their big "swords", especially given all the homosexual female characters and the complete lack of their male counterparts like you point out. Could give a whole different perspective on Rakes brooding etcetera. You could probably get the Crippled God and his potential sin (imagery of falling to the world/needing to be chained and controlled) in there somehow if you like that kind of thing.

All this said half-joking

[Grief]

Rake has children.

ST and Cotillion on the other hand...

[lobo]

Grief, on Oct 5 2008, 11:38 AM, said:

Rake has children.

ST and Cotillion on the other hand...

By the Bye, lesbians, or HOT- BABES having sex together is a turn- on for men and women. As I speak of the U.S., gay females are accepted in this culture.
We can't say that for gay men. The public still has a bad taste about it, homophobic men(ubiqitous)scarred by it. Male-male sex is thought of as icky, dirty, and preverted.
Having email conversations with a number of authors. All try to shy away from sex, gay men, and masturbation. Since they want to be published. Publishing houses and editors are averse to the topic.
I wanted to venture that Erikson is being carefull. That can't be right since he is immune to publishers decrees as are other best-selling authors. He can write anything and be published.
Army history is riddled by men having sex with men, no girls around to eb that huge testostrone drive. Heterosexual men having sex with other heterosexual men. And quite enjoying it!
Yes, this is a good question without an answer. Someone ask steve himself.

[Ganymed]

Skulldeath, the marine in RG, was kinda weirdish homosexual. Not really gay, but it is said that he lets men use him because his seed is reserved for a princess or something like that. So there was at least an implication of male homosexuality going on.

That said: I think the lack of male homosexuals in the series compared to female ones is simply explained by the fact that SE is a dude. And if he is like most dudes, the thought of men doing it creeps him out slightly, even if he has no problems with people being gay.

[alt146]

But Se is more than us mere mortals, and is without flaw, it must be some sort of clue.

I have read a couple of books that have homosexual characters and I cant say it bothers me that much, though I cant see how any of the characters being gay could add to the series. Even the most powerful hetrosexual romances in the series (cutter & apsalar, WJ and silanah?) dont really get that much focus. The lesbian bits haven't really added much to the series either. Other than one or two racy lines, and showing that the two characters care about each other.

[nomed]

Karsa kills a couple gay dudes in the beginning of HoC, before he finds the bloodwood armor.

[Dragnipurake]

nomed, on Oct 5 2008, 02:52 PM, said:

Karsa kills a couple gay dudes in the beginning of HoC, before he finds the bloodwood armor.

I just read the first book of HOC and was going to mention this. anyway, there is no logical rule that the author has to mention MSM in his books as many times as lesbian stuff to prove that it does exist in his story world as commonly as it does in reality. after all, SE & ICE are not describing every single individual on wu.

[H'Ranga]

Afaik the Errant and the chancellor had some fun together in RG... and wasn't the chancellor the Errant's son or something like that? THAT'S creepy...

[VampireGoat]

Indeed they did have a gay fling going on

which was also incest as well I believe

Another gay character is Briv no 3 in lees of laughters end.

Cant think of any others at the moment.

[Greymane]

It kind of implied that Gesler and Stormy were gay way back when they were introduced in DHG. Sure, they were mostly joking as they said it, but later on when Felisin tries something on them, one of them makes some remark about how they are immune to her charms.

Apart from that, and the Errant and Letherii Chancellor, I can't think of any other examples though.

[lorddarkflare]

There are enough examples. As mentioned earlier, it is rather difficult for a male writer to write Homosexual Males, and this is mainly due to the fact that even if ideologically and socially they accept gays, there is a deep repulsion ingrained by both nature and society. With that said, there are enough mentions of male homosexuals and homosexual sex, but i do not get the feeling that Erickson gives much weight to that kind of thing. His main(sex related) thing seems to be sexual perversion and role reversal of said perversions(though of the top of my head i can remember 2, i think there were four instances), the two main being the Women rapist of the tenescowi and Beak's mother sexually abusing him and his brother.

[Osric]

Well to be fair, I think the characters mentioned are bisexual not homosexual, blend and picker have sex with men and women for example. There are a lot of innuendos to it tbh, I think it's a lot more open in SE's books then anywhere else. Besides, the setting of the book doesn't really allow for happy couples, let's assume Gesler and stormy are gay together, you won't be seeing any romantic scene's there. And I personally am not interrested in any sex scene's with them, can you imagine? "oh stormy I love the way you never wash your beard".


No thanks.
And yeah the errant being the manslut he is had sex with at least one guy and probably more. Since that was his job. Imagine that, from the most powerful god to a prostitute.

All of this is not serious by the way.

[Lisheo]

I always thought Stormy and Gesler were gay, truth be told... Theres some comment about one of them getting dressed up in drag and fooling the other for like a night in HoC I think lols

[Giles]

alt146, on Oct 5 2008, 08:06 PM, said:

. Even the most powerful hetrosexual romances in the series (cutter & apsalar, WJ and silanah?)

I think you mean Korlat here ... Silanah is a pure blood dragon, and is with Rake

[Blend]

Lisheo, on Oct 6 2008, 10:03 AM, said:

I always thought Stormy and Gesler were gay, truth be told... Theres some comment about one of them getting dressed up in drag and fooling the other for like a night in HoC I think lols

Oh come on, Stormy and Gesler are about as gay as Samwise and Frodo. I think their closeness stems from spending most of their lives together and at war... The whole brotherhood / fellowship thing that people who go to war together inevitably get.

Anyway, as has been mentioned, male homosexuality, when it DOES show up in Fantasy Lit, generally is used to belittle someone, to make them seem more evil, less liked. It all comes from society's belief in "Two women are hot, but two men are weird!" thing... But what can ya do when the publisher's got the last say right?

I once read a book by Ricardo Pinto called The Chosen that had a beautiful gay male love story... And you didn't really realize it until later in the book. And even when you do realize it, you notice that he dances around the idea instead of outright saying that they're having gay sex... Anyway, great book, check it out... I promise there's no icky man on man gay sex orgies...

[SiriusL]

Blend, on Oct 6 2008, 08:36 AM, said:

I once read a book by Ricardo Pinto called The Chosen that had a beautiful gay male love story... And you didn't really realize it until later in the book. And even when you do realize it, you notice that he dances around the idea instead of outright saying that they're having gay sex... Anyway, great book, check it out... I promise there's no icky man on man gay sex orgies...

American Gods by Neil Gaiman had a passage about two gay characters. It was romantic, and there was nothing hidden in the sex scene. I don't think it's entirely up to the publisher what to include and not include, but you definitely don't see too many major homosexual good guys.