[Mezla PigDog]

Azath. When the AI comes things are going to have to be a whole lot different if it doesn't turn into the 1% living in utopia and the 99% grubbing around on the treadmills powering our AI overlords.

Treadmill time will probably be the only bright moment in our day.

[Mentalist]

Got the new bookcase installed.
This year's reading/re-reading plan can start shifting into high gear now that the books are out of boxes in the new place.

[Macros]

Yeah, depressing hard qgree with Mez, AI will just give the haves even more at the expense 9fnthe have not. The great divide will become greater, dystopia beckons

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Macros, on 25 February 2024 - 08:17 AM, said:

Yeah, depressing hard qgree with Mez, AI will just give the haves even more at the expense 9fnthe have not. The great divide will become greater, dystopia beckons

Eventually almost everyone will depend primarily on universal basic income. Preexisting assets will run out for most people (perhaps unless they've invested sufficient assets in the companies that will benefit the most from AI and robotics (yes, including sexbots...)).

At present, the corporate powers that be (and their governmental stooges) have a vested interest in making people dissatisfied---and their lives precarious---so that they keep working for money. AI and robotics will gradually render the need for workers obsolete. The 1% will then instead have a vested interest in keeping the masses contented so they don't cause mayhem:

Quote

The latest billionaire trend? Doomsday bunkers with a flammable moat

The latest billionaire trend? Doomsday bunkers with a flammable moat | Arwa Mahdawi | The Guardian

... unless they just kill or enslave everyone, of course.

A large part of that genuine health precarity and lack of access to education has come about as a result of propaganda against 'welfare', 'government handouts', and 'the redistribution of wealth'. But most people are going to have to embrace these in order to survive.

So yes, the wealth gap between the 1% and everyone else will probably widen. But hopefully, with robotic production and AI optimization, there will be enough abundance that it won't matter much (granted, climate change could make conventional agricultural production and transportation more expensive, but there are already plausible solutions, and AI and robotics will help work out the remaining issues and efficiently implement them). Besides, beyond evidence-based health-promoting goods and services, the material goods and services that people spend money on tend to be unnecessarily wasteful or actively harmful (the garbage fire of desire... though yes I know the title of this thread is not 'Whats making you happy right now is terrible') and not oriented towards creating lasting happiness (in part because, again, corporations benefit from keeping people discontented and buying crap---if it's actively harmful and prompts people to spend money on additional goods and services to try to counteract the negative effects, all the better). Evidence-based variations on Buddhistic practices to control and extinguish harmful desires should be a mandatory part of education, taught at an early age in virtual reality. In terms of the status games that humans tend to obsess over, immersive games and lives in the metaverse will provide attention-absorping-optimized ways for people to occupy their time (while not occupying government buildings or trying to throw their bodies into the gears of the machines (or the limbs of the robots...)). The metaverse will also help wean us off wasting money and transportation fuel on physical status objects.

Making me happy right now (and giving me some more hope for the future of humanity):

Quote

most empirical evidence has given credence to the claim that our brain is incapable of improving our decision-making abilities. Cognitive bias has practical ramifications beyond private life, extending to professional domains including business, military operations, political policy, and medicine.

[...] Confirmation bias, that is the tendency to conduct a biased search for and interpretation of evidence in support of our hypotheses and beliefs [...]

[...] this game-based training intervention transferred more effectively than have other forms of training tested by past research. Games may be more engaging training interventions than lectures or written summaries of research findings. The game also provided intensive practice and personalised feedback

Rewiring decision-making: The promising path to overcoming cognitive bias (psypost.org)

And games in virtual reality, being more immersive and providing more data (about eye tracking, potentially about additional health factors as well---heart rate, breathing, even EKG), may be even more effective, especially when administered every day from an early age. But, shockingly, such training for new humans might not even be necessary at some point within my lifetime:

Quote

In a study that could revolutionize our understanding of brain development, researchers at Harvard University have discovered that the complex neural circuitry responsible for specific behaviors in zebrafish can form without the need for sensory experiences, suggesting that genetic programming alone is sufficient to establish functional neural connections.

[...]

Historically, neuroscience has leaned on the idea that while genetic mechanisms lay down the basic framework of the brain's network, functional connections are honed through sensory experiences and environmental interactions. [...]

However, these models and experiments have not definitively answered whether sensory experiences during development are essential for the emergence of complex behaviors or to what extent the brain's wiring is pre-determined by genetics. [...]

"Our calculations led to a surprising prediction: There is sufficient information in neural development to specify the connections and weights of every neuron, even in the human brain. To test this striking statement, I aimed to show that the neural circuitry that underlies a complex, well-studied behavior in zebrafish can emerge without any learning."

Harvard scientists just revealed a remarkable fact about brain development (psypost.org)

... so, contrary to prior expectations, and depending on just how complex genetically programmed behaviors can be, it might be feasible to genetically engineer humans who actually practice virtue. Of course there will be resistance to non-medical interventions, though the ravages of climate change should help to shift public opinion in favor of genetic engineering for humans. In the meantime, we might be able to genetically engineer mammals to instinctively practice certain behaviors. Perhaps even genetically engineer tigers that would actually make good pets (and guardians... though for that we may need robo-tigers anyway).

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 25 February 2024 - 05:12 PM

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

People are already wearing the Vision Pro to dinners and throwing Vision Pro dance parties:

Quote

parties where DJs and attendees wore the devices and danced to music together [...]

[...] it's "not really an sf dinner party anymore without a couple of vision pros."

[...] people wearing the Vision Pro at several recent dinners

People at Vision Pro Party in SF Dance, Pinch Air (businessinsider.com)

And the Vision Pro (and other augmented reality goggles, headsets, or glasses) are very good at transforming the visual environment (for example, replacing walls with vistas---whatever 3D environment you want). The logical next step is dinners organized around the Vision Pro with shared fantasy environments. Enhancing the colors of the food is slightly trickier, but getting AI to recognize predesignated dishes shouldn't be particularly difficult.

(Also, in my previous post I forgot to mention retirees---yes, universal basic income by definition doesn't take other forms of income or assets into account, so retirees receiving social security (while such people still live) would end up being wealthier than people of what used to be 'working age'; and the voting power of retirees in the United States and many other countries with aging populations might prevent the exclusion of people already receiving sufficient social security, so long as democracy continues its misrule. But younger people can have their desire for status redirected towards non-monetary pursuits, or gamified pseudo-currencies: immersive video games in virtual or augmented reality for example. Or their ability to integrate with AI and solve mathematical and scientific problems, or produce great works of art (in tandem with AI, and the tides of the future... the optimistic future, that is).)

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 26 February 2024 - 03:28 PM

[Maark Abbott]

The notion that abundance will close the wealth gap is so naive that I have a sudden urge to quote Dagoth Ur

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Maark Abbott, on 27 February 2024 - 12:42 PM, said:

The notion that abundance will close the wealth gap is so naive that I have a sudden urge to quote Dagoth Ur

Won't close the wealth gap but will make it much less relevant to personal well-being beyond the desire for money-based status or money-based power relative to other people. What will help close the wealth gap between most people is the replacement of job-based income with welfare, as well as the embrace of welfare and redistribution of wealth as necessities. But unless an asset tax is introduced it won't close the wealth gap for those with sufficient assets (particularly investments that benefit from automation) to spend beyond the welfare payments in perpetuity.

Big tech companies have already cone out in favor of welfare to support the masses of people who will eventually be put out of work by AI. Data-based examinations of social collapse indicate that perceived status inequality has been a major factor, so reducing that perception is in their (and governments') rational best interest:

Quote

History's crisis detectives: Using math and data to reveal why societies collapse—and clues about the future

One of the most common patterns that has jumped out is how extreme inequality shows up in nearly every case of major crisis. When big gaps exist between the haves and have-nots, not just in material wealth but also access to positions of power, this breeds frustration, dissent and turmoil.

[...] All of these cases saw people become frustrated at extreme wealth inequality, along with lack of inclusion in the political process. Frustration bred anger, and eventually erupted into fighting that killed millions and affected many more.

For example, the 100 years of civil fighting that felled the Roman republic was propelled by widespread unrest and poverty. Different political camps were formed, took increasingly extreme positions, and came to vilify their opponents with progressively more intense language and vitriol. [...]

Perhaps one of the most surprising things is that inequality seems to be just as corrosive for the elites themselves. This is because the accumulation of so much wealth and power leads to intense infighting between them [...]

All this competition leads to increasingly drastic measures, including breaking rules and social taboos to stay ahead of the game. And once the taboo of refraining from civil violence falls—as it too often does—the results are typically devastating.

[...] One of the really common historical patterns is that as people accumulate wealth, they generally seek to translate this into other types of "social power": political office, positions at top firms, military or religious leadership. Really, whatever is valued most at that time in their specific society.

[...] Trump is only one recent and fairly extreme version of this motif that pops up time and again during ages of discord. And if something isn't done to relieve the pressure of such competition then these frustrated elites can find masses of supporters.

History's crisis detectives: Using math and data to reveal why societies collapse—and clues about the future (phys.org)

It's ultimately not wealth but 'whatever is valued most at that time in their specific society' beyond material necessities and pleasures that don't depend on comparing one's own wealth to that of others (to what extent that confers 'status' or 'goodness' or is valued varies greatly) that motivates the elite infighting that spirals out of control in these numerous historical examples (including the ones we're living through---you in the UK, and us especially here in the US).

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 27 February 2024 - 01:30 PM

[Abyss]

Azath, can you please create your own thread and just post whatever quotecrap salad you feel like sharing there and not anywhere else?

[amphibian]

Legit would read the containment strategy thread.

[Maark Abbott]

Wife being back at work, she was gonna get some pay this month but we expected it'd be one week only and that March would be a struggle.

We are pleasantly surprised that she got three weeks' pay instead. So we are instantly back to being comfortable. I celebrated by getting her some chocolate and an apple & blackcurrant gin liqueur.

I also treated myself to some Khoo's Northern Beacon because apparently I am a fucking idiot and want to burn.

[Mezla PigDog]

That's great to hear Maark. Enjoy that breathing room!!

[Maark Abbott]

Thanks ^^ We're celebrating a little by going out tomorrow to get lunch and have a potter around town. Wife got herself some tickets for a concert in October and I'm looking to go to a convention in Birmingham in August. Should be good times ahead now!

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Abyss, on 27 February 2024 - 05:29 PM, said:

Azath, can you please create your own thread and just post whatever quotecrap salad you feel like sharing there and not anywhere else?

Well, you're the moderator, so I'd suppose I have to do what you say or get banned.

If the primary issue is that lengthy quotations make it difficult to see shorter posts, it seems like spoiler tags for excessively long quotations would be sufficient. Perhaps for any quotation beyond the equivalent of a paragraph of reasonable length, or some other length limit if you think that's too much (max line number and max word count, for example). It's suboptimal, since the main point of providing the most relevant or interesting seeming quotations, minus filler, is to help save you the time it would take to read all of a lengthy article, and clicking 'spoiler' takes extra time. But my quotations are usually related to a specific topic or ongoing discussion, so while I could move the quotations to a separate thread and link to them within my posts in other threads, having to go from that thread back to the original thread would take even more time.

I'm perplexed that you seem to think my quotations are 'crap'. You seem well-informed enough to understand that the sources I'm quoting are generally either well-established media or legitimate experts. Perhaps my tendency to elide credentials (which are easily found in the links using your browser's search function) has led you to assume otherwise. Or perhaps you mean you don't find them interesting. Or perhaps 'crap' is referring to the arrangement; perhaps you find the removal of the connective filler, unnecessary details, etc. and the jumps from point to point frustrating to read.

However, I'm getting the impression that you really just want me to stop posting altogether, but you're reluctant to ban me outright without a warning.

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 01 March 2024 - 02:29 PM

[Abyss]

Azath Vitr (D, on 01 March 2024 - 02:29 PM, said:

Abyss, on 27 February 2024 - 05:29 PM, said:

Azath, can you please create your own thread and just post whatever quotecrap salad you feel like sharing there and not anywhere else?

Well, you're the moderator, so I'd suppose I have to do what you say or get banned.....

Skip the victim game, i'm not playing. If i was waving the modgod stick you would know it. This is not the first time i have mentioned it to you either, and i didn't play the mod-card then either.


I dislike your entire approach of dropping large quotes into threads, with minimal or no constructive comment, and unclear what is quote or comment. You have something useful to say, say it. You have a link you think is relevant, post it. The rest is, in my opinion, clutter. I do not think you should leave, i am not threatening you with a ban, i do think that you should create your own thread, where anyone who is interested in your clutter can see it and the rest of the forum is spared.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Abyss, on 01 March 2024 - 03:16 PM, said:

Azath Vitr (D, on 01 March 2024 - 02:29 PM, said:

Abyss, on 27 February 2024 - 05:29 PM, said:

Azath, can you please create your own thread and just post whatever quotecrap salad you feel like sharing there and not anywhere else?

Well, you're the moderator, so I'd suppose I have to do what you say or get banned.....

Skip the victim game, i'm not playing. If i was waving the modgod stick you would know it. This is not the first time i have mentioned it to you either, and i didn't play the mod-card then either.


I dislike your entire approach of dropping large quotes into threads, with minimal or no constructive comment, and unclear what is quote or comment. You have something useful to say, say it. You have a link you think is relevant, post it. The rest is, in my opinion, clutter. I do not think you should leave, i am not threatening you with a ban, i do think that you should create your own thread, where anyone who is interested in your clutter can see it and the rest of the forum is spared.

I've been putting all quotes except extremely short ones in

Quote

quotation brackets

for months now, as suggested, and (with the exception of quotes from other forum members) including a link at the end of each quotation (even when quoting multiple times from the same source). Anything inside [ ] within those quotes is my edit or commentary. (For extremely short quotes, like 'blah blah', of course I've been using ' ', though I could start putting those in quotation brackets as well.) And my recent posts have all included my commentary on those quotes immediately before or after them. If there's anything else I could reasonably do to make the distinction between quotation and commentary clearer, feel free to let me know. I could put the quotes in italics as well for example.

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 01 March 2024 - 03:56 PM

[Abyss]

Or you could stop or cut way back the quotes. In case you haven't noticed it's not something the rest of us do often.

[Mentalist]

People tend to react a lot better when you paraphrase whatever it is you are trying to quote. When you throw a number of multi-paragraph quotes one after another, it's not always clear how one set of arguments flows from another.

Anyhow, making me happy is the fact that it's Friday, and the snow is melting again.

also, topical:

This post has been edited by Mentalist: 01 March 2024 - 09:39 PM

[Maark Abbott]

An ally! Guitarist knows someone up the road from me and it turns out they've also seen fuckery going on here and have reported it in. We might actually get somewhere...

[Cause]

I will finally get to see the city of Dresden, No not Dresden but Chicago.

Any recommendations?

[Abyss]

Cause, on 18 March 2024 - 02:28 AM, said:

I will finally get to see the city of Dresden, No not Dresden but Chicago.

Any recommendations?

One of my favoritest cities in the US, it's been waaaaay too long since I've been back.

If you're flying in, if workable take the train from the airport to as close to your destination as possible. Cabs are expensive, slow.


Go see Sue. She's worth it.

Three dots and a Dash tiki lounge. Take careful note of the address. When you get there, walk to the back alley behind the address and look for the doorman. Arrive early, thirsty, maybe not too hungry, it's more snacks and apps than dinner. INSANE drinks, massive rum list.

The Girl and the Goat is exceptional food. Go. Eat everything.

The Bongo Room serves some of the bestest breakfasts/lunch/brunch you will ever consume. Great neighborhood to wander in too.

Pick a Blues club w live music, go. Dont overthink it, even the less known ones will have an act worth seeing.