[Forkrulian]

This is why I can't understand the TtH hate. Barring the "weep for the lost children of the world stuck strip mining for rich assholes" storyline, all the others delivered. And it had the best ending ever, involving the best character ever, who performed the most badass feats EVAR. What the hell do you people want?

[Gem Windcaster]

Forkrulian;366236 said:

This is why I can't understand the TtH hate. Barring the "weep for the lost children of the world stuck strip mining for rich assholes" storyline, all the others delivered. And it had the best ending ever, involving the best character ever, who performed the most badass feats EVAR. What the hell do you people want?

Good question. They can't handle the pressure on their brains? If I had to choose between bleeding eyes and bleeding brains, I'd take bleeding brains anytime.

Oh, and Anomander is awesome.

- Gem, thought TtH was awesome-candy.

[Agraba]

Forkrulian;366236 said:

This is why I can't understand the TtH hate. Barring the "weep for the lost children of the world stuck strip mining for rich assholes" storyline, all the others delivered. And it had the best ending ever, involving the best character ever, who performed the most badass feats EVAR. What the hell do you people want?

Because this series is more about the little guys than the uber gods. And when it came down to it, even though they held most of the air-time throughout the book, they had absolutely no contribution to the end convergence. It centered around the uber-gods that didn't even seem to have a place in the book until that point! TtH was, thus far, SE's least clever way of connecting plot threads at the climax of a book. Plus, if I just wanted to read about badass dudes doing badass things, I'd just read something else, like the bible, where the biggest badass of all does the most badass things (lots of smiting; at some point he even wipes out the entire human race barring two people!).

The one thing I like most about Anomander Rake is that he's not possessed with certainty. He's not always absolutely sure that his actions are the correct actions, and he's not held to a conviction that he's right, and his ends must be met by any means possible. He's skeptical of circumstance, and whether his ends should be met after all. He's even skeptical about his own ends. For example, after so much war against the Malazans, in MoI he hits Caladan Brood with a recent revelation (after hundreds of millennia he's still having recent revelations) that the Malazans are not worth opposing, because he now feels they do more good than harm. Anomander's wise uncertainty is, IMO the only reason he's not a tyrant.

so let's say: 41 - doesn't hold to stubborn convictions

[Gem Windcaster]

Agraba;366273 said:

The one thing I like most about Anomander Rake is that he's not possessed with certainty. He's not always absolutely sure that his actions are the correct actions, and he's not held to a conviction that he's right, and his ends must be met by any means possible. He's skeptical of circumstance, and whether his ends should be met after all. He's even skeptical about his own ends. For example, after so much war against the Malazans, in MoI he hits Caladan Brood with a recent revelation (after hundreds of millennia he's still having recent revelations) that the Malazans are not worth opposing, because he now feels they do more good than harm. Anomander's wise uncertainty is, IMO the only reason he's not a tyrant.

Seconded! Nicely put.

[Optimus Prime]

I thought TtH was brilliant, but to each their own I suppose.

42. Anomander was the baddest black dragon ever in fantasy

[Ammanas]

Well, I have to say I didn't much like TTH when I finished it, either. After reflecting back on it, I believe it was due to my expectations. Toll the Hounds---I was expecting a lot of ST, a LOT more.

After judging it on what it did deliver, I have to say it was pretty awesome.
Looking back on the loony predictions and crazy theories, I don't remember any that said:

1)Dassem will kill Rake to get to Hood and not get Hood anyway.
2)Envy and Spite would mix it up in Darujhistan
3)The Hounds of Light would appear
4)Hood and Rake would be dragnipured

What I still found uninteresting

1)Clip
2)the Dying God
3)Cutter or Crokus, take your freaking pick of names, he's still an idiot

What I want to know more about

1)Silanah's whereabouts--I'd like to see her spew some KG on Kallor--she would doubtless have the sense to drop Kallor BEFORE he drew his sword.
2)Tulas Shorn--was he the original god of shadow?
3)why were the Seguleh pickled?
4)the Tyrant

[Kage-za]

#43. He kept an evil magic crow as a pet dog.

[Battalion]

I thought that Rake's demise was a bit ... gay. Standing on the pile and all that. I wasn't overly impressed.
Basically, I wanted to see him fight Oserc before he died. I wanted to see him fight Ikky. I wanted to see him fight Ruin. I wanted to see him fight Karsa. I confess, I also wanted to see him fight Traveller, and that fight was wicked, but I just wanted to see so much more of him.

[Kage-za]

prediction: We'll see Nimander fight Ruin and/or Osserc.

[VampireGoat]

Bleh gonna get hated for saying this but am i the only person a little tired of Rake? Maybe it's all the praise he's received recently but Rake has imo run his course now and im glad he's gone and out the way with.

He's just a bit to perfect for me, completely selfless, no arrgoance or any form of self-importance and utterly unstoppable.

He's become true goodguy justice incarnate with a kick arse appearance and turns into a dragon. He's mega cool but he's become...well predictable as well.

His story through TTH was a bit predictable from the word go, did a lot of standin around and then walked to his death and saved everyone doing so. I didn't know the means but the end result might as well have been written on the front cover. Infact TTH would made more sence being called Anomander Rake, I still don't get what the point of the hounds were really anyway. We've seen them materalise in cities from nothin why did they need to destroy half of it? Rake was the books point of focus.

Now he's done, he was cool, he was tough and he was heroic. But now he's done and im glad to see him shelved

[HoosierDaddy]

VampireGoat;366838 said:

Bleh gonna get hated for saying this but am i the only person a little tired of Rake? Maybe it's all the praise he's received recently but Rake has imo run his course now and im glad he's gone and out the way with.

He's just a bit to perfect for me, completely selfless, no arrgoance or any form of self-importance and utterly unstoppable.

He's become true goodguy justice incarnate with a kick arse appearance and turns into a dragon. He's mega cool but he's become...well predictable as well.

His story through TTH was a bit predictable from the word go, did a lot of standin around and then walked to his death and saved everyone doing so. I didn't know the means but the end result might as well have been written on the front cover. Infact TTH would made more sence being called Anomander Rake, I still don't get what the point of the hounds were really anyway. We've seen them materalise in cities from nothin why did they need to destroy half of it? Rake was the books point of focus.

Now he's done, he was cool, he was tough and he was heroic. But now he's done and im glad to see him shelved

Uh-oh. I hear the sharpening of pitch-forks and a line of what looks to be hundreds of torches.

Rake was a cool character. Far from my favorite in the series though.

[Optimus Prime]

I was just paying him his dues.

Oh and Rake was arrogant. He knew that pretty much, he was top dog, but in his mind it didn't matter.

[eekwibble]

You posted that in the wrong thread VG.

Rake was king of awesome in the awesome house of High House Awesome. His awesomeness is not to be questioned in this awesome thread of awesome respect for the awesome character that he awesomely was!

He wasn't just 'cool'. He was awesome! The hounds were awesome too but not as awesome as Rake.

I think the HoS bust up half the city for an awesome laugh after awesomely escorting the awesome Traveller to the awesome city and being awesomely bored 'cause they didn't really get to do anything awesome on the way 'cause the awesome Karsa awesomely scared the awesome shit out of them.

And whilst we're awesomely at it; GotM was a vague line from one of the character's (can't remember which) daydreaming aboot the possibility of there being actual 'Gardens' on the actual 'Moon' not the awesome Moons Spawn, Deadhouse Gates had very little to do with the awesome Deadhouse (until the end of the awesome book), Memories of Ice had bugger all to do with any memories of any ice until the awesome end, HoC was mostly aboot the awesome Karsa Mutherfucking Orlong who awesomely spurned the actual HoC just to be awesome, Midnight Tides was another obscure reference to something from one of the poems and nothing really to do with the book's awesome content, The Bonehunters is the only book to date with a direct link from title to main awesome storyline, Reapers Gale was another line from a poem at the start of an awesome chapter of the awesome book.

What made you think that TtH was going to be aboot... Hounds?

I fully expect Dust of Dreams to be the awesome story of a muslim transformercat's struggle to cope with life in modern America and tCG to be three awesome pages of a farm boy with a magic sword waking up in McDonalds with a dog with different coloured eyes lying across his feet!

eekwibble - awesomed out.

[Forkrulian]

Agraba;366273 said:

Because this series is more about the little guys than the uber gods. And when it came down to it, even though they held most of the air-time throughout the book, they had absolutely no contribution to the end convergence. It centered around the uber-gods that didn't even seem to have a place in the book until that point! TtH was, thus far, SE's least clever way of connecting plot threads at the climax of a book. Plus, if I just wanted to read about badass dudes doing badass things, I'd just read something else, like the bible, where the biggest badass of all does the most badass things (lots of smiting; at some point he even wipes out the entire human race barring two people!).

The one thing I like most about Anomander Rake is that he's not possessed with certainty. He's not always absolutely sure that his actions are the correct actions, and he's not held to a conviction that he's right, and his ends must be met by any means possible. He's skeptical of circumstance, and whether his ends should be met after all. He's even skeptical about his own ends. For example, after so much war against the Malazans, in MoI he hits Caladan Brood with a recent revelation (after hundreds of millennia he's still having recent revelations) that the Malazans are not worth opposing, because he now feels they do more good than harm. Anomander's wise uncertainty is, IMO the only reason he's not a tyrant.

so let's say: 41 - doesn't hold to stubborn convictions

Speak for yourself, you like reading about the "little guys" that Erikson writes well about, I like reading about the clashing of titanic forces that he writes well about. You basically stated my case for me and crushed your own argument when you wrote what you did about Anomander. His gods/powerful beings have personalities, strengths, weaknesses, etc of their own, whereas I don't remember God in the Bible having many weaknesses...

I think Erikson is a bit of a modern day Homer. He can get down in the trenches with battles' participants, or up in the minds of extremely powerful beings and make both very interesting.

[fafner]

stood alone against a army of tiste liosan so his people can get away

[Grief]

A reasonable sized bit of GotM is Brood bitching about Rakes arrogance, and this is one of his best friends/guys who knows him best supposedly.

He is awesome.

[Zendog13]

Makes garden utensils sound cool

[Andirak]

44. Fought and chained not one, not two, but three pure Eleint, and they sounded really, really scared of him (with good reason)
45. Made Karsa Orlong sweat, literally, and also made him realize that there are things out there scarier than he is (probably a good thing for him).



And yes, I know, a bit late, but it's never too late.

[beru]

and dont forget that after fighting the Hounds he thretens ST with a assult on FREAKINGS SHADOW RELM and ST actally reacts as if he can do it (how knows now? RIP Anomandaris dragnipurake)

[Dragnipurake]

46. Had he accepted 'godhood', he would have been the only god to have served his followers