[tiam]

Sinisdar Toste;368148 said:

*cough* kruppe and pust *cough cough*

still i expect you are right.

Also the Rake and Dassem been foreeshadowed frm MT

[fafner]

nah kruppe and pust will work together to kill the CG one by his left ear and one by his right the CG will kill himself after 1 hour

[Ammanas]

Hmm, maybe Karsa will kill Shadowthrone when it is discovered that ST has indeed occupied a bunch of thrones. Or maybe Killy will get loose and be just a little upset about being imprisoned.

[Tapper]

I think Karsa can appreciate the fact that ST did fairly little with the thrones he gained, all in all, and somewhat approves of the way he used his power. And Kilmandaros does not strike me as the rabid variant of an FA - it was implied in the prologue where she did show up (RG? can't remember) that her offspring was being wayward and lost focus in its striving for peace - not she herself.

[VampireGoat]

I cant see karsa sticking around for the tyrant. SE's been growing karsa throughout the series I cant accept he's just gonna drop him for the rest of the main series, karsa's main series finalle being that rather poor cameo he had in TTH would be rubbish.

Also Picker wasn't JUST the messanger. Whatever she was told involved her 'going back to war' and walkin up to karsa and saying 'dont go anywhere just yet big fella ya gotta kill something here first' hardly sounds like mission complete.

It'd make sense for Karsa to kill the CG because the CG has been trying to chain and bind karsa since he entered the story. Karsas very nature is the oposite, trying to break said chains. He is still the Knight of Chains afaik and if Karsa is gonna continue and break free as he always said then its gonna take the pulling down of the house of chains or the god commanding it. This is a series that has revolved around lesser beings killing bigger beings, karsa is on the forefront of this. He's a trainee god slayer from day one and I don't see how thats over.

Also Hood & co seem to get involved only in the biggest of world issues, the new ruler of darujhistan isn't going to be hoods concern in the slightest however the conflict between all the gods is. The Tyrant, for all the foreboding, is still just daru's problem just as the crimson guard are the malazan empires problem.

We have not seen the end of karsa in the main series he's not gonna be dumped off yet. The key thing I've noticed in two ICE books is he generally steers clear of establish SE characters anyway after all a characters writing style often shapes the character. The only characters they share as such belong to the entire malaz world ie the empress, certain gods etc.

[Dragnipurake]

Well, she did, and so ended up in an azath.

Tapper;368395 said:

.........And Kilmandaros does not strike me as the rabid variant of an FA - it was implied in the prologue where she did show up (RG? can't remember) that her offspring was being wayward and lost focus in its striving for peace - not she herself.

[Tapper]

Not exactly - she turned pre-emptively on Rake because she expected him to turn on her after their spring-cleaning in shadow - probably because she suspected him of wanting to rule Shadow. He tucked her under his arm and deposited her in an Azath. I'd say that's a whole of a lot different from killing everything in a 10 mile radius to bring peace and silence as the FA in Midnight Tides does...

[Skywalker]

Tapper;369299 said:

Not exactly - she turned pre-emptively on Rake because she expected him to turn on her after their spring-cleaning in shadow - probably because she suspected him of wanting to rule Shadow. He tucked her under his arm and deposited her in an Azath. I'd say that's a whole of a lot different from killing everything in a 10 mile radius to bring peace and silence as the FA in Midnight Tides does...

That may or may not be true.

We don't know for sure that it was Rake that put her in the Azath...

Since the Azath is undersea, I'd like to think Rake almost-pwned her, and then after telling her "I didn't even mean to betray you, you dumb hag", walked off... then Mael (or even Sechul Lath) comes along, says... Fee Fii Fo Fum, off to the Azath with this giant bum. Poof. Off goes killy to the undersea wonderland.

[Dance]

Per the Crazy Theories thread...

Karsa will end up killing (or attempting to kill) K'rul.

Logic -
Karsa breaks chains.
The biggest chain on the gods is worship.
(Theory) That chain is caused by the warrens, and the linkage of power created by them.
Karsa is in Daruj to kill a god.
K'rul, an Elder God, is the warrens.

[Grief]

The worship thing is pretty much there own fault as far as I can tell. its possible to deny it but they choose not to. The elder gods take power not from the worship, but from the blood, which, with or without the warrens has power.

If you take out K'rul it wouldnt even help, as at one point someone(possibly even K'rul) states that only the younger warrens are him. Irritaatingly this is contradicted at other points, so im unsure what to think. SD, KG, etc are all from before him iirc. Thats obvous enough anyway, as we are told MD was one of the first things around, if not the first. And shes the pure embodiment of KG pretty much. Also you'd have to wipe out every dragon as well.

If this happens and Wu turns into earth(all the dragons gone, magic gone, technology takes over, the old races die out, people forget shit) i wont be happy.

Also you cant kill K'rul. As far as I can tell killing an elder god permanently isnt possible. Edgewalker isnt gone, hes dead. If it was possible, why didnt rake do it to draconus. If it was the CG would be a far easier problem to solve. Edge doesnt answer about how its possible to kill an "elemental force". So even if it is possible, im doubting Karsa has he power. Think how much it took to chain the CG. He embodies one warren. K'rul embodies how many?

Besides, you'd have to get through Kruppe first(and his mule) so I doubt its possible.

[Dance]

Grief;369383 said:

The worship thing is pretty much there own fault as far as I can tell. its possible to deny it but they choose not to. The elder gods take power not from the worship, but from the blood, which, with or without the warrens has power.

If you take out K'rul it wouldnt even help, as at one point someone(possibly even K'rul) states that only the younger warrens are him. Irritaatingly this is contradicted at other points, so im unsure what to think. SD, KG, etc are all from before him iirc. Thats obvous enough anyway, as we are told MD was one of the first things around, if not the first. And shes the pure embodiment of KG pretty much. Also you'd have to wipe out every dragon as well.

Suppose the plan is by the younger gods, who are basically shanghaied into the worship system by K'rul. The Elder Gods will still be stuck.

Grief;369383 said:

If this happens and Wu turns into earth(all the dragons gone, magic gone, technology takes over, the old races die out, people forget shit) i wont be happy.

I'd assume whoever's planning it would have another system to put in place. Some other powerful being who contains a warren, perhaps?

Grief;369383 said:

Also you cant kill K'rul. As far as I can tell killing an elder god permanently isnt possible. Edgewalker isnt gone, hes dead. If it was possible, why didnt rake do it to draconus. If it was the CG would be a far easier problem to solve. Edge doesnt answer about how its possible to kill an "elemental force". So even if it is possible, im doubting Karsa has he power. Think how much it took to chain the CG. He embodies one warren. K'rul embodies how many?

Besides, you'd have to get through Kruppe first(and his mule) so I doubt its possible.

Nightchill?

And as for Karsa vs Kruppe/mule... well, this is the man who choked a Deragoth to death. And if there's anyone more stubborn then a mule, it's Karsa.

[Grief]

Nightchill was in mortal form when killed. This is described as a risk, as she could die.
Her death is her own fault, so unless K'rul starts taking stupid risks I doubt it.

I think there are better God vs. Karsa fights possible too.
Im hoping that Kallor will finally become a god(how remains a mystery) and we'll get him vs Karsa. The other problem i've got is that a lot of gods seem to be able to kick Karsas arse.

Draconus seems only a little worse than Rake with a sword, and Karsa isnt on that level.
Unless its one of the weaker gods, which wouldnt be as good a fight.

I reckon its gotta be a weaker/younger god(ST, Cotillion etc) because the blood oil he rubs into his skin we are told is made of otataral dust, and thats why hes immune to magic, so any god using an elder warren would kill him.

I reckon Karsa vs Cotillion would be quite cool.

[Ammanas]

Grief;369414 said:

Nightchill was in mortal form when killed. This is described as a risk, as she could die.
Her death is her own fault, so unless K'rul starts taking stupid risks I doubt it.

I think there are better God vs. Karsa fights possible too.
Im hoping that Kallor will finally become a god(how remains a mystery) and we'll get him vs Karsa. The other problem i've got is that a lot of gods seem to be able to kick Karsas arse.

Draconus seems only a little worse than Rake with a sword, and Karsa isnt on that level.
Unless its one of the weaker gods, which wouldnt be as good a fight.

I reckon its gotta be a weaker/younger god(ST, Cotillion etc) because the blood oil he rubs into his skin we are told is made of otataral dust, and thats why hes immune to magic, so any god using an elder warren would kill him.

I reckon Karsa vs Cotillion would be quite cool.

Maybe. Just have to point out that MBoTF assassins have not fared well at all when it comes to facing warriors one on one. Cotillion is the exception, I suppose. Didn't he kill Edur warriors after the sorcerers in HoC? Or was it only sorcerers?

[Dance]

Grief;369414 said:

Nightchill was in mortal form when killed. This is described as a risk, as she could die.
Her death is her own fault, so unless K'rul starts taking stupid risks I doubt it.

I think there are better God vs. Karsa fights possible too.
Im hoping that Kallor will finally become a god(how remains a mystery) and we'll get him vs Karsa. The other problem i've got is that a lot of gods seem to be able to kick Karsas arse.

Draconus seems only a little worse than Rake with a sword, and Karsa isnt on that level.
Unless its one of the weaker gods, which wouldnt be as good a fight.

I reckon its gotta be a weaker/younger god(ST, Cotillion etc) because the blood oil he rubs into his skin we are told is made of otataral dust, and thats why hes immune to magic, so any god using an elder warren would kill him.

I reckon Karsa vs Cotillion would be quite cool.

K'rul might be tricked into a mortal form in order to save someone he cared about - doesn't the Errant use that to trap Mael at one point?

I think Karsa is a better swordsman then people give him credit for, and there is something to be said for raw strength and reach. And for being underestimated.

Also, Karsa is immune/resistant to elder magic as well, as Binadas finds out in HoC.

[Grief]

Rallick Nom owns Turban Orr(a swordsman) in a duel.
Im pretty sure Kalam at some point has killed warriors. As has Apsalar.
Cutter owns Gorlas.

Assassins dont do too badly, it just depends how good they are in relation to who they're fighting.

Edit: Also, Karsa is resistant, but not immune. Now this seems a major problem for your average mage, but im betting most gods could take him down. He certainly doesnt have the resistance to fight off someone with the magical ability of Rake, K'rul etc. Also, we know nothing of K'ruls prowess with a weapon. In the 300,000 or so years he has lived, you'd think he picked up a decent grasp on how to fight. After all, as Baruk(I reckon) says, a life that long needs hobbies. Lots of other beings that old are good with a sword, Rake, Kallor, Draconus. So it isnt exactly far-fetched to assume that he can fight without magic.

[fafner]

personally i believe what the errant said in RG that the whole war was between old and new. so every old god need to have a new one that want to take over his power. so lets say that we got
errant - paran
krull - CG?
MD -?
draconus - kallor?
tiam - ?

[HoosierDaddy]

I think that the Errant is biased by his position, and by his own actions in reconstituting the holds. Self-made prophecy stuff. However, I do believe that the tension between older, elder forces and the younger gods is a facet of the power struggle taking place.

[Dance]

Grief;369452 said:

Edit: Also, Karsa is resistant, but not immune. Now this seems a major problem for your average mage, but im betting most gods could take him down. He certainly doesnt have the resistance to fight off someone with the magical ability of Rake, K'rul etc. Also, we know nothing of K'ruls prowess with a weapon. In the 300,000 or so years he has lived, you'd think he picked up a decent grasp on how to fight. After all, as Baruk(I reckon) says, a life that long needs hobbies. Lots of other beings that old are good with a sword, Rake, Kallor, Draconus. So it isnt exactly far-fetched to assume that he can fight without magic.

Wasn't Binadas close to the warlock king in power? Not exactly an average mage. But I think the issue of Elder God magic vs Karsa isn't answered yet, so we'll have to wait and see.

I'm sure he's competent with a sword, but we don't have any indication that he's extremely skilled with one. I would certainly bet on Karsa to beat Kallor and possibly Draconus - K'rul would have to be on par with Rake or Dassem to be beating him.

[HoosierDaddy]

I don't think K'rul goes around waving pointy objects. That just isn't a read I've got on him. He doesn't seem to have any powers at all, aside from entering people's dreams. Did SE rip of Jagang? Joke.

[fafner]

don't forget that k'rul gave kruppe a blessing in his dreams. that means he still got some powers