[teholbeddict]

IMO the books get much better from Goblet of Fire onwards. They really are worth taking the time to read. Alot of really good stuff is left out of the movies, more than likely because of the sheer amount of material they have to deal with. If nothing else, people really should read from Order of the Phoenix onwards. Those books in particular are very good and definitely worth taking the time to read. You really are missing out on a lot in the movies.

[Mezla PigDog]

teholbeddict, on Jul 15 2009, 04:38 PM, said:

IMO the books get much better from Goblet of Fire onwards. They really are worth taking the time to read.

But are they really though? They are daft kids books really with no serious substance. The only kids books I would feel comfortable recommending are Pullman's His Dark Materials trilogy. Even then, Lyra is an annoying little bint.

[HoosierDaddy]

Mez, if you didn't enjoy Goblet of Fire at all, then I wouldn't recommend the last 3. GoF is the "transition" novel, and is my second favorite in the series. While the series gets progressively more adult, and while the writing gets better, I'd say if you took nothing away from 4 you'd get meager takings from 5 and 6, and book 7 would probably annoy you, despite the fact I think it is the best in the series.

[teholbeddict]

Mezla PigDog, on Jul 15 2009, 10:41 AM, said:

teholbeddict, on Jul 15 2009, 04:38 PM, said:

IMO the books get much better from Goblet of Fire onwards. They really are worth taking the time to read.

But are they really though? They are daft kids books really with no serious substance. The only kids books I would feel comfortable recommending are Pullman's His Dark Materials trilogy. Even then, Lyra is an annoying little bint.

Putting the fact that I am a huge HP fan aside, I can honestly say that the books get much better from Order of the Phoenix onwards. I wasn't a huge fan of the books up until Goblet of Fire. They do get more substance to them in the latter part of the series, and the pacing is much better as well. I would also say that the last books are much less kiddish, which has been evidenced in the progression of the movies.

I've read Pullman's Dark Materials Trilogy and I would say that the last of the HP books are a better read. Although the Dark Materials was good, and the fourth book Lyra's Oxford is worth the read as well. I will agree that Lyra is higly irritating!

[Mezla PigDog]

Well, I read them because they were lying around at my mothers house and I stopped because they had only been published up to Goblet of Fire at the time. How many years ago must that have been? While I found it perfectly readable, I did take from it about as much as I would from reading a leaflet.

If I had kids, I would get them reading Ursula le Guin's Earthsea stuff before I gave them Potter. JK ripped the wizard school from there anyway. I'm not saying Potter isn't fun but the reason it was a global success is because it is the banal candyfloss of kiddie lit. She has seriously littered it with hideous stereotypes and token ethnics.

Seriously, as an adult, of all the books there are to read in the world is there a real reason to pick up Harry Potter above something else? It is only interesting because it is a global phenomenon. But then so is the Big Brother tv series!

This post has been edited by Mezla PigDog: 15 July 2009 - 03:57 PM

[caladanbrood]

His Dark Materials is a more interesting series to read because it has so many different levels, while Potter obviously has much more mainstream appeal, because it's all relatively easy stuff... both have their positive and negetive sides. But while Rowling's writing does improve throughout the series (at a fairly consistant rate, I thought), there isn't a particular leap is style or anything, it just gets a little bit darker in the later books.

Also... it needed a big bang to end the series, which it didn't get, so that's a shame... but not for this thread.

[HoosierDaddy]

Potter isn't and never was, I believe, meant to be of the highest caliber of literature. Not avant garde or novel. It was, however, an endearing series that grew with its readers. As an adult, books one and two were pure fluff. I watched the movies before reading them. Book 3 was slightly better, I thought. Book 4 was extremely enjoyable, despite it's fluffiness. Book 5 starts getting dark, and books 6 and 7 take that darkness and run with it. It is no Steven King, but he enjoys them. If you could tolerate book 4, perhaps give 5 a read, and see if that does anything for you. Word to the wise, it is true to form to the pathetic whining of teenagers the world across.

@Mez: Asking people on an Erikson board if there is better stuff to read is fairly self prophesying! Millions of people read Goodkind too. The masses are wrong and right in equal measure. Just look at Twilight for fucks sake. I'd like to ask Bwgan whether she'd want her daughter to read Potter more than Twilight.

This post has been edited by HoosierDaddy: 15 July 2009 - 04:03 PM

[teholbeddict]

I agree with Hoosier, there is nothing earth shattering or profound about them, but then I could say that about a lot of books. I'm not trying to make them into something they're not. Books 5,6,7 are all really good reads. I actually thought that the last book tied everything up as well as it could be done. There were a lot of loose ends to contend with and she dealt with them all. I didn't have a problem with the way the series ended.

Yes there will always be better things out there to read, that is obvious. I'm just saying that if you enjoy the movies, it is probably worth giving at least those last three books a try because they really are a lot better than the movie. There are a lot of major bits that aren't in the movies, most likely because no one would sit through a five or six hour film! I would honestly give them a try.

This post has been edited by teholbeddict: 15 July 2009 - 04:07 PM

[Yellow]

Went to see this tonight. It was ok, quite enjoyed it.

Telling you, though, I've been to the cinema to see all three LotR films, four star wars films and the Matrix trilogy... and I have never seen anything as geeky/sad as grown men and women holding up imaginary wands at the screen. Jesus, get a grip people.

PS - there was far too much grooming in this film. I was waiting for Slughead or whatever he was called to start talking about the higher love between chaps.

This post has been edited by Yellow: 15 July 2009 - 09:16 PM

[teholbeddict]

Lol! There were alot of people dressed up when I went to see it last night. Most of them were dressed as quidditch players, but there were a fair share with wands and hats. Of course they were the ones at the front of the line, who must have been there at the crack of dawn!

[D'rek]

Yellow, on Jul 15 2009, 05:12 PM, said:

Telling you, though, I've been to the cinema to see all three LotR films, four star wars films and the Matrix trilogy... and I have never seen anything as geeky/sad as grown men and women holding up imaginary wands at the screen. Jesus, get a grip people.

When the Return of the King came out, I went to an all-night thing where they showed the first two extended movies and RotK all in one night, with about half an hour in between. I went as my normal self and then when I got there realized my error as it was full of saurons and hobbits and elves. My sister and her friend put fur on their shoes to make'em look like ginormous bare feet and got all dressed up. That's still the nerdiest for me, and I don't think this'll beat it...

[Sir Thursday]

Went and saw this earlier and thought it was OK...not quite as impressed as it sounds like you guys are though. Definitely not as good as the 5th film in my eyes.

The principle problem, I felt, was that Harry and Dumbledore had by far the most screentime, and they were the two weakest actors of the lot. That lead to a lot of the better actors being criminally underused. I realise that is a gripe with the source material as much as anything, but it definitely detracted from my enjoyment somewhat. Thematically and tonally, I didn't feel it was as tight as the Order of the Phoenix. Then there was an element of disconnectedness because the relationship stuff of the first half of the film had little to no linkage to the second half what with Ron, Hermione, Ginny etc. not really being involved in the second half at all.

Positives, however: I thought Slughorn was really well portrayed, really enjoyed his screentime. In fact, apart from Harry, Dumbledore and Hermione, the rest of the cast played their parts to perfection (sometimes Emma Watson's line delivery seemed a little off sometimes...Radcliffe is still too wooden, and Gambon has never really got the part right). Nice to have some continuity of setting (I think I'm right in saying they didn't redesign Hogwarts again...). They also managed to capture the feeling that a school year has gone past, something I felt was distinctly lacking from the 4th film and annoyed me a lot about it. I liked the way they managed to convey Malfoy's struggle with what he was being asked to do, even if it was slightly OTT in its execution (every shot of him seemed to be him brooding...it was a little too much at times).


Oh and regarding the books: I felt Order of the Phoenix was actually the weakest of the books - far too much angst and introspection to go with a plot that I felt was stretched out a bit too thin. However, they managed to trim the fat very well and make the film of it the best of the lot. But TB is right that the tone darkens quite considerably in tomes 5,6 and 7, and I felt that in the latter two of those, Rowling managed to get it just about right for the most part. (Caveat:

Spoiler

That last chapter should never have been included. The saccharine-ness of it, it burns! It would have been perfectly fine to leave it without the epilogue. I mean, Albus Severus Potter? Pass me the bucket, I need to throw up.

)


Sir Thursday

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

I just talked to a couple of friends who just saw this. They are both big fans of both the series and the movies. They are PISSSSSSED about how bad this movie was. They're ranting about it like I was ranting about T4.

[MTS]

Raymond Luxury Yacht, on Jul 16 2009, 11:19 AM, said:

I just talked to a couple of friends who just saw this. They are both big fans of both the series and the movies. They are PISSSSSSED about how bad this movie was. They're ranting about it like I was ranting about T4.

I woke up to text messages filled with RAGE this morning. It was funny. I hope it's them just being picky, though. I want this movie to be good.

This post has been edited by Mappo's Travelling Sack: 16 July 2009 - 01:56 AM

[HoosierDaddy]

I enjoyed it... but I was underwhelmed. Slughorn was brilliant and had me laugh multiple times. There was just too much material in the book to translate it to the film well. The relationships were poorly, poorly, poorly, poorly developed. I can not stress that enough. They just kind of.... pop up. The books does a very good job of explaining Harry and Ginny. This movie... not so much.

Good parts: Slughorn; Snape; surprisingly Malfoy; visual; Dumbledore (more of him); Harry on Felix; the Cave.

Bad parts:

Spoiler

Where in the fuck is my battle scene at the end? Absolute assholes took out the best part of the book

. Harry is getting better, but needs to keep improving.

Spoiler

Oh, so you blew up the Burrow. That makes sense

. Relationship development.

Overall? Entertaining. Not brilliant. Not as good as GoF or OotP. 7/10 (GoF 8/10, OotP 9/10).

This post has been edited by HoosierDaddy: 16 July 2009 - 05:34 AM

[Yellow]

I'm surprised that Harry is still such a crap wizard, and yet is expected to defeat the bad guy in the next film(s). Every time he attacks someone with a spell, it just gets deflected (except for when he

Spoiler

murdered Malfoy... for which there was no come back whatsoever

).

This guy is the chosen one? He needs to practice a bit, methinks.

All the kids are still awful actors, and all Rickman had to do was say "Indeed" a lot, and very slowly.

Still better than the last film, though.

[Aptorian]

Ah but yellow, if you've read the last book you know that

Spoiler

the whole final battle is detirmined in 2 seconds by who shouts the loudest

[dktorode]

Aptorian, on Jul 16 2009, 09:54 AM, said:

Ah but yellow, if you've read the last book you know that

Spoiler

the whole final battle is detirmined in 2 seconds by who shouts the loudest

i cant even remember what happened...

[HoosierDaddy]

Well, it wasn't what Apt said.

[Aptorian]

It was, it totally was Hoosier!

It's the most anticlimactic thing ever.

I know there wasn't much Rowling could do about it, what with having built that stupid magic system, but seriously, that final showdown was pathetic.