[ShadowOwl]

Another thing I wondered about, if Gothos has 'captured' the elder god who is the creator/ builder of the Azath, and if Gothos has been taking said azath houses and planting them where he wanted it, is it possible Gothos created the Nameless Ones? And if so, what would his purpose have been other than to really run the worlds/realms his way? Perhaps he could be the biggest quietest tyrant of all???? Just a wild theory.

[polishgenius]

I'm glad to read IH's post there.

Spoiler

I was beginning to suspect, with the semi-confirmed setting of the two books remaining not being Darujhistan, that he was just going to leave that thread unresolved, so it's good to get confirmation that ICE is doing it.

Anyway, although it likely wasn't the Tyrant itself, perhaps the Imass in the mines was linked with it and what Humble Measure was after at the digs? That storyline seemed to be pretty pointless otherwise.

[Morgoth]

why must the tyrant be a specific person that will return. Couldn't the tyrant be a position, a throne of sorts, open to whomever have the strenght to take it?

[Illuyankas]

I personally think the Tyrant is an exiled human Tyrant from Assail. The idea of an continent full of pseudo-Seguleh chopping the crap out of Imass with mass produced magic swords is great. It also fits in with ICE doing Assail.

[Cause]

ShadowOwl;354708 said:

Another thing I wondered about, if Gothos has 'captured' the elder god who is the creator/ builder of the Azath, and if Gothos has been taking said azath houses and planting them where he wanted it, is it possible Gothos created the Nameless Ones? And if so, what would his purpose have been other than to really run the worlds/realms his way? Perhaps he could be the biggest quietest tyrant of all???? Just a wild theory.

An interesting idea. Yet I have always had the impression that gothos is one depressed immortal. Nothing ever changes, his history books are called Gothos folly. Named so by himself. I think he chooses to serve the azath because hes that bored. Also Im not sure I would call the azath builder an elder god. Their seems to be much more too it. Also dont forget gothos said he was saving that 'one'. Suggesting theirs more than one builder.

Finally as the azath appear to exist on multiple worlds in muliple places in multiple reliaties. I think no one entity commands it all

[8th City]

caladanbrood;345537 said:

While reading it, I did think that the tyrant was the Imass that Harllo met, but I doubt he'll escape from the Azath that quickly...

I think we have a winner here folks. Remember the Imass was a subject of Raest and tried to face him alone, and paid for it, but he has Raest's Sword, and basically internally threatened the gods of the world.

I do not think SE will be really obvious about who the tyrant will be, he probably doesnt know yet. But my money is on the Imass.

[Vis17]

Another thing for the Imass, after we see he is taken by the Azath, Antsy comments on how he 'should have stayed on the path'. But earlier on, there is a very clear comment regarding the Imass and the plans of elder gods being awry because it doesn't occur to them that 'some people do not use paths'.

Perhaps his path to whatever power he wants lies through the Azath?

Raest also mentions the chance for a conversation with him. Perhaps a collusion of the two? All in all, it's not the last we'll hear of it, I'm betting.

[Cause]

I dont recall him having rhaests sword. He has an imass sword. the bone handle which has become fossilized.

Also Antsy's comment I think is entirely literal. while the imass is being figurative.

Besides it seems as if the tyrant has been around before and the imass was in a hole when darujhistan was built. And now being stuck in the azath I dont see how it can come right just yet

[Illuyankas]

It was Raest's comment, actually. And the swords was iron crafted to look like a flint Imass sword.

[Abyss]

Raest tossed the Imass down the hole. That pre-dates the Darujhstan Tyrant(s).

Interesting that this whole story will shift to ICE.

- Abyss, curious to read ICE's take on Karsa and co...

[Sindriss]

I realise it will kill the discussion if true, but I think the tyrant is somebody we have never met before. This universe has never had any problems of throwing some new characters into the fray

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

Imperial Historian;350554 said:

I asked steve about this at the bbq, and from what I remember this is what he said

Spoiler

He also said that karsa, and I presume a large number of the characters left in darujhistan will not appear in the next two books and will be taken over by ICE for his as yet untitled book

Spoiler

So no more Karsa in the series? I find that disappointing, and a little hard to believe.

I am so glad I found this thread about the Tyrant. I thought I was going to be the only one confused by this. It was going to end up in my stupid questions thread, because I was sure I was the only one missing something.

[Flawed]

The whole Tyrant business was puzzling for me.

Although i do see it a little differently.

IF the Tyrant was an all powerful being then surely we would of heard of them. Or they would detail their name in some form of another. But we never actually hear a name. Just a title. " The Tyrant "

This also is lent credit from the fact that Daru used to be ruled by " Tyrant Kings ".

So. As some people have said , i believe it will be a person obtaining the power to be come the Tyrant or some such. Not a returning entity. As " The Tyrant " is a title, nothing more...

[Illuyankas]

I'm beginning to think that it's a mispelling, that all they were concerned about was building frames to hold scarves and cravats. Stupid Tierack Kings.

[Abyss]

Btw, in his musing on the Tyrant situation at the end, barul thinks about the agents trying to bring back A Tyrant, not THE Tyrant.

Likely there were more than one historically.

- Abyss, part-time Tyrant

[Leanoric]

I just posted something very related to this in another thread:

http://www.malazanempire.com/forums/showth...?t=11184&page=5

Basically, it gives quotes about Humble Measure having secret crypts, ancient texts, and a Master Plan.

Crypts hold bodies. Ancient, "fraught texts" may well contain secrets about who they are and how to bring them back - certainly Humble Measure thought he had "made a discovery" in them that would "ensure that no foreign power could ever threaten the city... ever again". What is often required to do things like this? Blood! And what has HM been doing? Ordering people (malazans) killed.

Baruk's quote about the tyrants:

Quote

There were servants hidden in the city, and they were even now at work. To bring about a feel return, to awaken one of the Tyrants of old. Neither woman in this room was unaware of this, and the fear was palpable in its persistent distraction.(page 922)

So, there were clearly more than one Tyrant. They are 'of old'. I don't think it's anyone we have met - no character that we know of has been a previous Tyrant of Darujhistan, I believe.

It's also interesting that Baruk calls the people at work (obviously HM is only one, although perhaps the most important one?) 'servants'. Servants of whom? Crazy theory - the T'orrud Cabal are themselves behind the plot and Baruk is referring to their own servants? After all, they all know about it. They distrust each other enough to think that any of them might make a grab for Dragnipur if given the chance. It says they all feel fear at the idea of the Tyrant returning, but that does not mean they are actually opposed to the idea. Who knows.

[Abyss]

Also, earlier in the book Baruk speculates that of the Torrud Cabal who are left, he fully expectes one of him, Derudan or Vorcan/Verada to betray the others.

Also interesting that Baruk thought those 'killed' by Vorcan may have just done a vanishing act. Aside from Crokus' uncle, who was possessed by Raest then sploded by Hedge.

It seems odd that the Azath would wake Vorcan so she could go assist the a Tyrant. baruk's inner monologue certainly suggests he wouldn't willingly betray them. Which leaves Derudan.

Of maybe the 'dead' Cabal will show up again helping the Tyrant.


- Abyss, never trusts a dead conspirator...

[Cause]

Not a vanishing act, closer to suicide

[Where is Dassem Ultor?]

I initially read that as a vanishing act as well; I do remember their "deaths" coming quite fast in GotM.

[Paran]

In GotM Baruk sensed all their deaths, not just fourn out. I assume this means there was a connection within the Cabal of a magical sort. From the internal monologues I was led to believe that they accepted Vorcan's out as a lesser evil that living to see the next Tyrant.