[Veilside]

blackzoid;344606 said:

Eh, you have Karsa above Daseem? No, just no.
Karsa was "shaken" by the fight. He's not in Dassem's league at all.
I'd have put Trull above Karsa skill wise, Trull held off full rage Icarium after all. And Silchas Ruin too.
Don't get me wrong, Karsa is good, but if he was not a Teblor and was human/tiste sized he would do very poorly against such non-ascendents like Brys, Trull, Mok etc.
He is all great strangth/amazing attitude but poor skill.

Trull's dead...

[Illuyankas]

Pfft, like that stopped anyone in this series. And Tarr, you have Endest instead of Spinnock for who fought their way through Assail.

[Veilside]

Isn't Bhrys an ascendant now anyway? Skinner being an avowed is definitely the next best thing to ascendant.

[magicrealist]

Tarr;344891 said:

This is my non-ascendant top fighters list...

1)Skinner (stood up to dassem and possibly killed the second)
2)Brys (cut Ruhald apart without killing him)
3)Kallor (killed a soltaken elient tiste andii)
4)Iron Bars (stood up to a bunch of toblaki gods)
5)Endest (fought through assail!!!)

Iron Bars is hugely overrated.

[Veilside]

magicrealist;344905 said:

Iron Bars is hugely overrated.

How so?

[Illuyankas]

Blues is more deserving of a place on that list, in my opinion.

[magicrealist]

Veilside;344908 said:

How so?

a small return spoiler...

Spoiler

He is no where near the skill level of a fringe top 20 seguleh, and he only came away alive because of the avowed ritual. He's not close to any of the other guys on the list, he's jsut a good soild fighter, nothing amazing. People overrated his acheivments in MT. He managed to hold off gods who had been inactive for ages, gods who were easily butchered by Silchas.

[Veilside]

magicrealist;344919 said:

a small return spoiler...

Spoiler

He is no where near the skill level of a fringe top 20 seguleh, and he only came away alive because of the avowed ritual. He's not close to any of the other guys on the list, he's jsut a good soild fighter, nothing amazing. People overrated his acheivments in MT. He managed to hold off gods who had been inactive for ages, gods who were easily butchered by Silchas.

True enough.

Spoiler

But then Skinner wasn't exactly all that great either. The only Avowed that seemed quite impressive was Cowl.

[8th City]

Good Afternoon.

Been reading this site for almost a year now, while I have been moving through the books, and I appreciate all the theories, discussions, and moments of enlightenment.

And I must say, I am almost a zealous follower of the various top 10 and top 5 lists that have been posted. I just love the arguments for and against.

Saying that, and after reading all the various posts on martial prowess, Here is what I believe the top 5 to be (non ascendant).

1. Bryss (hands down, to be able to sever ligaments/tendons in an opponent who was not without some skill, and to leave that opponent totally at the mercy to whatever comes along is a skill that absolutely none of the other sword fighters/assassins have come close to duplicating)

2. Skinner (I put him here based on his fight with Dassem, who is an ascendant so is not on the list...(see leomen of the falls conversation where he explains what happened to Dassem))

3. Mok (I put him here instead of the 1st, because we have seen what Mok can do)

4. Karsa (no brainer top 5, I think everone above him could kill him, and a couple of ascendants, but his exploits speak for themselves otherwise, to put hiim in the top 5)

5. Trull (stood against Icarium in full rage, if his spear didnt break, he would still be holding, he bigboied Clip, and stood against Ruin toe to toe)


Icarium, why is he not mentioned? Well as far as martial prowess he is above average for sure, but not in the class as those above him. At full rage he is undoubtably a force of nature, but not a world class swordsman)

Where is apsalar? Well if it came down to a knife in the back, then she would be up there, but in a toe to toe fight, anyone in top 5 would make quick work of her.

Segulah 2nd? Segulah 1st? Havnt read all the way through TTH, so not much is known about 2nd, and once again we have never seen or heard of what the 1st is capable of.

So here you go, and once again thank you very much for everything you all put in this forum.


2.

[Veilside]

8th City;344940 said:

1. Bryss (hands down, to be able to sever ligaments/tendons in an opponent who was not without some skill, and to leave that opponent totally at the mercy to whatever comes along is a skill that absolutely none of the other sword fighters/assassins have come close to duplicating)

Not stricly true, but you'll need to read Return to know what I'm referring to.

Quote

Where is apsalar? Well if it came down to a knife in the back, then she would be up there, but in a toe to toe fight, anyone in top 5 would make quick work of her.

Apsalar held her own against 5 hounds of shadow, I wouldn't rule her out.

[BeLeG]

Silchas Ruin diod not kill all the 5 Toblakai gods.In fact the Seregahl were busy fighting Iron Bars, Ublala and the two undeads.
So please dont say Iron Bars is overrated because he isnt.
He is the only one to survive a fight against 5 (probably ascended) Toblakai warriors.

think about Rake using Vengeance/Gried...we all know the strength of his will..

[Veilside]

BeLeG;345028 said:

Silchas Ruin diod not kill all the 5 Toblakai gods.In fact the Seregahl were busy fighting Iron Bars, Ublala and the two undeads.
So please dont say Iron Bars is overrated because he isnt.
He is the only one to survive a fight against 5 (probably ascended) Toblakai warriors.

think about Rake using Vengeance/Gried...we all know the strength of his will..

Sure, but the fact that he merely went up to them and stuck his swords threw them says a lot about him.
Iron Bars is good, but he's not that good.

[scabandari]

When silchas fought the toblakai they were rusty but admittedly ubala and iron bars were out of it by then so he was on his own

Brys is over rated yeah he had accuracy but Rhulad still had barely unlocked any of the swords power so wasn't all that good and fear isn't all that good but he said he could stand against brys for a long time before he died
Trulls dead anyway so hes not counted unless he comes back which he probably will as hes in the deck of dragons now
Mok can't be in there as at the moment hes still the third but ST did say he was on the rise

[Veilside]

scabandari;345043 said:

When silchas fought the toblakai they were rusty but admittedly ubala and iron bars were out of it by then so he was on his own

Silchas was rusty too, probably more so, as he had to fight off one of the three sisters in the barrows.

[scabandari]

yeah thats just practice and she wasn't that tough so he was probably fresher than the toblakai

[BeLeG]

Trull stood up against an enraged Icarium but he couldnt believe what his eyes witnessed when he saw Brys fight.Did anyone else cut the tendons of his opponent without opening any major vessels in the series??Ok I havent read TtH but thats the most impressive thing in terms of sword skills I ve seen in MbotF so far

Of course Silchas is stronger than Iron Bars but the Seregahl didnt notice him because they were busy beating the others.And Silchas didnt face 5 of them
the Seregahl were rusty you say?They did manage to kill almost everyone else inside the Azath

[Veilside]

scabandari;345053 said:

yeah thats just practice and she wasn't that tough so he was probably fresher than the toblakai

She was an eleint soletaken. Of course she was tough.

BeLeG;345054 said:

Trull stood up against an enraged Icarium but he couldnt believe what his eyes witnessed when he saw Brys fight.Did anyone else cut the tendons of his opponent without opening any major vessels in the series??Ok I havent read TtH but thats the most impressive thing in terms of sword skills I ve seen in MbotF so far

Of course Silchas is stronger than Iron Bars but the Seregahl didnt notice him because they were busy beating the others.And Silchas didnt face 5 of them

Trull fought Icarium long after witnessing that fight. A hell of a lot happened to him between those events.

RotCG spoiler

Spoiler

Seguleh are trained to target major veins and tendons, a low ranked one almost kills Iron Bars, so Brys isn't the only one capable of that, certainly the top 250 Seguleh would be capable of it.

[scabandari]

yeah i suppose but the others in the barrow may have been quite weak and they could have spent ages killing the others its not as if time is really an issue within the Azath but yeah silchas is probably pretty tough but not as hard as Anomander plus hes ascended so he doesn't count.

[Veilside]

scabandari;345062 said:

yeah i suppose but the others in the barrow may have been quite weak and they could have spent ages killing the others its not as if time is really an issue within the Azath but yeah silchas is probably pretty tough but not as hard as Anomander plus hes ascended so he doesn't count.

I'd say he was pretty much on par with Rake, although probably more powerful as an Eleint, due to having drunk more of Tiam's blood.

[BeLeG]

a lot happened to Trull after that but is there any mention of his skills being better now?Anyway do you really think that Brys is overrated?His mental power is just as great as his swordsmanship.Remember his fight against the Guardian.And the way his mind works.Imagine Brys after 10 or fifteen years

Spoiler

About the Seguleh: can they target the tendons without hitting the vessels with a speed to match Brys' speed?Until I read something more spectacular I'll count Brys among the very best.

scabandari:weak denizens of the Azath?You cant be serious


About Ruin:I dont think he is equal to Rake.Rake was the champion of MD.It cant be just because he is her firstborn.