[scabandari]

It has to be
1) The seguleh first
2) Karsa Orlong he beat Icarium when the fought and he might outmuscle the first
3) Dassem Ultor but he might be a broken man and the sword grief won't help him as his will isn't concentrated
4) Icarium when he's at full rage he goes to the top but hes vulnerable when hes not angry
5) Gruntle he's the god of wars mortal sword he's bound to be tough

I haven't included known ascendants even though Dassem might be Dessembrae so a god but otherwise the ascendants abilities are increased so it not really fair to include them


I haven't included the avowed because very little is known about them as only iron bars has been seen in action
Gruntles not really ascended and Karsa isn't a god to the Tarthenal and Icarium is a half jaghut who maybe has some power given to him by the azath. I maybe should have put in Brys but Ruhald had only died a few times when he fought him so wasn't as tough as when Karsa killed him. kallor and Tool are on the fringes but aren't quite good enough and we haven't seen living Tool fight

Should have included Gothos as he killed 46 I'mass and a bonehunter but he might have used magic as elder magic may not be stopped by tellann

[Tarr]

Icarium, Dassem and Karsa Olong are gods Icarium to those crazed monks, Karsa to the Tarthenal and Dassem is Dessembrae, so they have that advantage ascension gives them.

Gruntle also draws his power from a god, although he probably is highly ranked on his own.

Your also forgetting Brys (Tehol's brother) who cut Ruhald apart, The Avowed (skinner, Blues and Iron Bars), Kallor (who can't ascend), the other segulahs (e.g. the second) and Tool.

[Illuyankas]

Also Osserc and Ruin. Draconus might be good, too. Oh, and Brood and Greymane.

[Tarr]

scabandari;344226 said:

ascendants abilities are increased so it not really fair to include them

I thought we were leaving out ascendants?:confused:

[Aptorian]

I'm going to go ahead and claim that Rake is the best there ever was and he set himself up for the killing blow.

rable rable rable

[BeLeG]

the above post deserves rep

[buddhacat]

Tarr;344311 said:

Icarium, Dassem and Karsa Olong are gods Icarium to those crazed monks, Karsa to the Tarthenal and Dassem is Dessembrae, so they have that advantage ascension gives them.

When did Karsa become a god?

[Beak]

Although Karsa and Icarium are worshiped as Gods, they are not ascended. I don't think the worship of either has granted them any additional prowess in combat.

Also, have we seen the Seguleh first fight? I didn't think it was someone we've necessarily met in real time in the novels.

Tool would still make the list for me, I'm especially looking forward to his wrath after what occurred in RG.

[Illuyankas]

I'm pretty damn sure Icarium is ascended, as well as Karsa by this point. I'm sure Karsa is denying it like Traveller (or just ignoring it), and I don't think Icarium even knows, or would remember if he did.

[Aptorian]

There's a point while Traveller, Dev and Karsa are travelling together, I think it's Dev's POV (most of them are), where she thinks... or it says... something like Witch flanked by the two ascendants.

If anyone could smell and ascendant it would be Samar Dev.

[Tarr]

And Karsa seems to be a war god as picker was sent to give him a message by toc, who was in turn sent to notify the war gods by hood. To be honest if you can butcher two degaroth you are either ascended or your tossing cussers at them and since karsa does not seem to be the kind to toss explosives at worthy foes, i'm going with the former.

[blackzoid]

Eh, you have Karsa above Daseem? No, just no.
Karsa was "shaken" by the fight. He's not in Dassem's league at all.
I'd have put Trull above Karsa skill wise, Trull held off full rage Icarium after all. And Silchas Ruin too.
Don't get me wrong, Karsa is good, but if he was not a Teblor and was human/tiste sized he would do very poorly against such non-ascendents like Brys, Trull, Mok etc.
He is all great strangth/amazing attitude but poor skill.

[Illuyankas]

I think he's suggesting that Dassem is now too distraught to fight Karsa properly. When/if he gets back to his old self, then he'd kick Karsa's ass, but as it stands now Karsa has a chance.

But they're buddies now, they wouldn't fight.

[Obdigore]

If Dassem is a broken man after his slaying of Rake, he will not be able to use his will as the sword requires, and will not be able to fight as he did ever again, perhaps.

Iccy and Mappo and Dassem and Karsa are all ascended. How you can say they aren't is beyond me.

Iccy is one of the most feared ever, and can possibly destroy the world.
Mappo is ascended, either due to the web of sorceries from the nameless ones, or just by his experience.
Dassem is worshiped as a good, and is mentioned as ascended.
Karsa has his OWN GODDAMN WARREN, and is immune to magic. I would say he is ascended at the very least, but possibly even Knight/King of HHOtataral or HHNegation, or HHWildCard?

Oh yes I am making up things now.

[Illuyankas]

King of High House Sit The Fuck Down, Bitch!

[magicrealist]

People overrated the power of the sword when it comes to Dassem. Remember he was fucked up mad Tiste Edur and mad god blessed warriors in the 7 cities easily before he had the sword. I think hes the easily the best fighter we've seen, and I think only Rake Brys and Mok are close.

Brys is underrated on these boards. He's easily the most skilled pure swordsmen we've seen at least imo.

[buddhacat]

The sword Dassem has been using so far, he named Vengeance. Hereafter, he will call it Grief, and still have that singular focus on it. I think he will be just as badass as ever before.

[vaiski]

Obdigore;344629 said:

Iccy and Mappo and Dassem and Karsa are all ascended. How you can say they aren't is beyond me.

Iccy is one of the most feared ever, and can possibly destroy the world.
Mappo is ascended, either due to the web of sorceries from the nameless ones, or just by his experience.

In DG, Pust notes that neither Iccy or Mappo has ascended.
Whether that was true then or is now is of course open to debate, but there's one reason.

[magicrealist]

Iccy will never ascend because of the memory.

[Tarr]

This is my non-ascendant top fighters list...

1)Skinner (stood up to dassem and possibly killed the second)
2)Brys (cut Ruhald apart without killing him)
3)Kallor (killed a soltaken elient tiste andii)
4)Iron Bars (stood up to a bunch of toblaki gods)
5)Spinnock (fought through assail!!!)