[dolfanuk]

no spoilers please but am i right in thinking the crimson guards vow to take down the empireis 100 years old?

if so how old is the empire / dance and kellanved

[kaf09]

Only approximate dates, but the age of the vow as 100 years is a pretty good estimate. Kellanved and Dancer expanded from the island of Malaz maybe 150 years before the present day in the novels. They might have reached D'Avore (somewhere in Quon Tali, the proximate continent to Malaz relatively early, I don't have access to the maps). By the time of GotM, the Malazan empire had expanded to include Seven Cities, some of Genabackis, and some of Korel(?). (During this time, there was a chaining event in which Dancer at least participated.) There are more accurate timelines floating around the forums.

[Hoods Balls]

The wow is 160 years when the book starts. Since the wow was sworn to oppose Kellanved and the empire I think it's fair to say that the empire is approx. 160 years or so.

[kaf09]

Hoods Balls;333843 said:

The wow is 160 years when the book starts. Since the wow was sworn to oppose Kellanved and the empire I think it's fair to say that the empire is approx. 160 years or so.

While the empire is undoubtedly older than the vow, the vow is about 100 years old. Age of empire at 150 years +/- 40 years is reasonable. Without introducing spoilers read the Chapter Heading of Chapter 1, ROTCG.

Spoiler

Stoop's self-reported 160 years of service to the D'Avores meant that he was a geezer when he made the vow.

[dolfanuk]

how the hell are they still kicking around at that age? 160 years of malaz empire.

that means that kellanved and dancer must be bloody ancient.

i know mages live longer but thats rediculous.

ages are messed up in this series.

mind you the deadhouse may have had some effect.

oh and ps is whiskeyjack one of old guard?

[Aptorian]

It's the deadhouse that gave the Old Guard it's longevity.

WJ isn't a part of the Old Guard

[VampireGoat]

well ages have been sent screwy by their living in an azath house. The house of death as well non the less.

However Kellanved and Dancer.. well interesting choice. Those two specificly have ascended as you well know and are now immortal regardless of dead house.

And WhiskeyJack hmm. I think him being old guard is debateable. WJ was originally marked to rise along with Choss after Daseem died, at least thats what I think I remeber from NoK. I suppose he got busted down to quickly to cement himself properly. Probably the reason only One-Arms host and of course the Bridge Burners acknowledge WJ as one of the great commanders is they're the only ones that got to serve under him, while the rest of the military know of this guy that got put in charge, shipped over seas and demoted.

Not an easy one to judge since early SE stuff basically makes WJ sound like a living legend akin to dancer laseen and co, heck it's said if he'd wanted the imperial throne he could have had it without laseen having a leg to stand on. Yet at the same time for a guy who apparently had that much influence, he may well not have existed outside genabackis as far as the rest of the empire is concerened. At least thats what I gather from Rotcg. The book loved name droppin all the old lost heros etc. Dujek for an example gets a mention as being a total legend as commanders go and he looks up to WJ but nobody else, it seems, remebers he exists.

[Aptorian]

ICE also introduces a new concept we haven't heard of before. Rejuvinating people by using High Denul. Apparently this is what Braven Tooth had used.

[ShadowOwl]

We know there is and was a lot of living in and travelling between Azath houses, and that they affect time.
The Shadow realm, the shattered warren is said to drift through time.
The barrow where the tyrant Raest was trapped was outside time, which being beside Darjustan could warp time in the area possibly.

Then, in this book, there is an interesting quote from Shimmer after being trapped in the Shoals of the Forgotten, the dead ship realm, for an unknown period of time by Mael, "Time did not run parallel from Realm to Realm or even warren to warren."

There are a lot more references like these throughout the books, so maybe the timeline being messed up does make sense.

[Greymane]

The prologue of GOTM states it is the 96th (and last) year of Emperor Kellanved's reign. The prologue of ROTCG states it is now the 11th year of Laseen's reign, and the 99th year of the Vow.

So, in other words, the Malazan Empire is about 107 years old, meaning K'azz and his Avowed performed their ritual fairly early on in the Empire's history. Probably around the same time or shortly after Kell and Dancer conquered Li Heng.

I think some people are getting confused by Stoop's comment that he's served the Duke for 160 years. Stoop is an old man, and the Avowed don't age, so he's basically saying he was already a hoary old veteran of 60 when he first took the Vow. 60 years of normal service + 100 years as Avowed.

[Epiph]

Aptorian, on Sep 27 2008, 10:39 AM, said:

ICE also introduces a new concept we haven't heard of before. Rejuvinating people by using High Denul. Apparently this is what Braven Tooth had used.

Wasn't it mentioned that Ullen had used this as well? When Ghelel learns that he served with Dassem and Choss but never actually left Quon Tali, she realizes he must have been part of the original unification, thus, old. So with the mention of High Denul rituals available to many at the height of Kellenved's reign, the ages of Dujek, WJ, Fid, etc suddenly make more sense.

[Deragoth]

Greymane, on Oct 6 2008, 05:32 PM, said:

The prologue of GOTM states it is the 96th (and last) year of Emperor Kellanved's reign. The prologue of ROTCG states it is now the 11th year of Laseen's reign, and the 99th year of the Vow.

So, in other words, the Malazan Empire is about 107 years old, meaning K'azz and his Avowed performed their ritual fairly early on in the Empire's history. Probably around the same time or shortly after Kell and Dancer conquered Li Heng.

I think some people are getting confused by Stoop's comment that he's served the Duke for 160 years. Stoop is an old man, and the Avowed don't age, so he's basically saying he was already a hoary old veteran of 60 when he first took the Vow. 60 years of normal service + 100 years as Avowed.

You are the winner sir, 100 internets to you!

[Cause]

VampireGoat, on Jun 19 2008, 02:54 PM, said:

well ages have been sent screwy by their living in an azath house. The house of death as well non the less.

However Kellanved and Dancer.. well interesting choice. Those two specificly have ascended as you well know and are now immortal regardless of dead house.

And WhiskeyJack hmm. I think him being old guard is debateable. WJ was originally marked to rise along with Choss after Daseem died, at least thats what I think I remeber from NoK. I suppose he got busted down to quickly to cement himself properly. Probably the reason only One-Arms host and of course the Bridge Burners acknowledge WJ as one of the great commanders is they're the only ones that got to serve under him, while the rest of the military know of this guy that got put in charge, shipped over seas and demoted.

Not an easy one to judge since early SE stuff basically makes WJ sound like a living legend akin to dancer laseen and co, heck it's said if he'd wanted the imperial throne he could have had it without laseen having a leg to stand on. Yet at the same time for a guy who apparently had that much influence, he may well not have existed outside genabackis as far as the rest of the empire is concerened. At least thats what I gather from Rotcg. The book loved name droppin all the old lost heros etc. Dujek for an example gets a mention as being a total legend as commanders go and he looks up to WJ but nobody else, it seems, remebers he exists.

Im pretty sure wiskey jack is more widely respected than that. It was said he could have been emperor if he had wanted it