SPOILERS SPOILERS, Skinner

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SPOILERS SPOILERS, Skinner

#1 blackzoid

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 09:40 AM

Ok, Skinner now wants to be King.
Kallor wanted to be King, but got stuck with Reaver.
Rhulad was a "weak" King (to me anyway).

How long before Kallor and Skinner come to blows? Soon I imagine.

Also, does anyone know what it was that Cowl and Skinner saw in the Tiste Liosan Realm? Was it Osserc in that "energy beam"?

#2 buddhacat

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 04:15 PM

blackzoid;326771 said:

Well, Skinner has the impervious armour and nasty sword. Also 40 Avowed. I expect Kallor will defer to him (the way he deferred to Brood and Rake), and wait for an opportunity to betray. Seems in character.

As for the Liosan realm, I assumed it was a Dragon aspected to Light or some such. It expected to see Osric (who'd been missing for a long time) but found human interlopers and blasted them. Anything less powerful than a Dragon, and I think Cowl would have withstood it.

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#3 Imperial Historian

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 07:29 PM

I think it's pretty clear that kallor is outmatched by skinner, his fight with traveller was barely worthy of the name, while skinner put up some sort of fight against him.

Plus skinner has 40 avowed, which is more than enough to scare kallor into submission. that said if skinner is king, does that make ardatha queen? I'm not sure kallor will be to happy about that...

#4 The Dark Wanderer

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 07:52 PM

OK sticking with the topic primarily to begin with. Reckon Kallor is ridiculously outmatched by Skinner in his armour after seeeing the fights with Traveller. This however brings me onto my weird point, Skinner has armour/sword/the whole kit and caboodle gievn to him and invested in by Ardatha. Ardata (who I always assumed was the same person) is a semi-guardian of Kyle against the CG so will she now go after Skinner to get her armour back or am I mixing up two different people with ridiculously similar names?

#5 buddhacat

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 08:47 PM

I think it's the same Ardata as the one who also helped heal Mappo, and who resisted Kallor back when he was High King. My take is that Skinner probably got the armour from her (when he established his little fiefdom on Jacuruku over the previous several decades) and has now betrayed her by going over to the CG.

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#6 Imperial Historian

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 09:03 PM

Where does it say ardata is helping kyle against the CG? Ardata/adatha appears to be the same person and is queen from kallors era.

#7 buddhacat

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 09:08 PM

Yeah, I think that should be the Queen of Dreams who helps Kyle.

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#8 Blacksox

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 09:24 PM

Yes but when Dragnipur is shattered and Kallor will be free not only to regain his old skills but also ascend I recon there will be a reckoning.

#9 Tarcil

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 09:38 PM

Who says that Kallor's curse will be lifted by the shattering of Dragnipur?
He only said in his curse that Draconus would be slain by his own creation, nothing about imprisonment in Dragnipur.
K'rul has returned and while not so powerful anymore he roams around (isn't forgotten anymore) while Kallor still can't ascend or can he?

#10 Blacksox

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 11:38 PM

Tarcil;327249 said:

The curse on Kallor can't be broken until the other three curses unravel as well. It stands to reason if the other three curses can fail so can the curse on Kallor

#11 Blacksox

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Posted 11 June 2008 - 01:19 AM

Is it just me or does anyone else feel Skinner was kind of and uninteresting generic villain.

#12 Hoods Balls

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Posted 11 June 2008 - 08:23 AM

Blacksox>>No I totally agree. I had really high hopes getting to know more about Skinner and also a lot of the other characters but I think this is the greatest difference between SE and ICE writings. SE is quite frankly a much better writer that can capture and make a character alive in a few words. I thought most of the charachters in RotCG were strangely 2dimensional if you know what I mean. And Skinner very much so. He's lile the top dog of the pack, the leader of the guard when the Duke went missing and we dont know anything about him.

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#13 blackzoid

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Posted 11 June 2008 - 09:04 AM

Perhaps this is the idea. Skinner's story may be filled in later on.

#14 Zanth13

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Posted 11 June 2008 - 09:21 AM

I never thought of skinner as a bad guy, but according to ROTCG he deff. was... kinda of wierd...

though ICE might take the SE approach and flip flop impressions of bad and good through out his books...

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#15 kaf09

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Posted 11 June 2008 - 10:44 AM

Just regarding Kallor, I recall one of the curses the elder gods laid on him (by Nightchill?) was that he would fail in all his endeavours (something of the sort, I don't have access to the Erikson novels at the moment). Anyway, in ROTCG, Kallor at least outlives this curse, by slaying Ereko, the last of the Thel'Akai, a race he had been trying to exterminate for millenia; maybe the other curses laid on him will expire as well.

Clearly Kallor is no match for Skinner; Kallor was and is far too canny to face a capable opponent (remember Brood's taunt in MoI).

#16 Zanth13

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Posted 11 June 2008 - 10:56 AM

kaf09;327680 said:

very good point... I never thought about Ereko's death like that...

though I thought that scene was a tad cliche(ish)

the best scene by far in the book was Iron Bars VS the Segulah...
damn the reeked of awsome...

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#17 GingerBreadMan

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Posted 17 October 2008 - 04:11 AM

Zanth13, on Jun 11 2008, 10:21 AM, said:

Same here, Skinner appeared as a fairly one dimensional villain...

Something that doesn't make sense to me is that Skinner made such a powerful vow of loyalty yet he and Cowl ended up betraying the guy?

#18 Aptorian

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Posted 18 October 2008 - 11:37 AM

kaf09, on Jun 11 2008, 12:44 PM, said:

Clearly Kallor is no match for Skinner; Kallor was and is far too canny to face a capable opponent (remember Brood's taunt in MoI).

Clearly? Kallor is a damn good fighter, we've only seen him loose to Dassem, who also took out Skinner. Without the magical armor I think Skinner would be sorely tested by Kallor.

Zanth13, on Jun 11 2008, 10:21 AM, said:

GingerBreadMan, on Oct 17 2008, 06:11 AM, said:

Same here, Skinner appeared as a fairly one dimensional villain...

While Skinner was sort portrayed as the villain because he betrayed the vow, I didn't think of him as a bad guy or evil. He's just an ambitious leader. He wanted to rule the Malazan Empire so he had to remove some obsticales in his way, among other Stoop. Binding Kazz, if that was what they did, was a smart move. It would ensure that he and his avowed would remain immortal and nearly unkillable while ruling the biggest empire on Burn. They would have been an even more formidabble group than the Old Guard and they could practically rule for ever.

I thought his confussion when Kyle first meets him, his and Cowls trip through Thyrlann and the final scene where he washes up on the beach, painted a deeper picture of Skinner than just a ruthless killer. I thought he was one of the most interesting characters in the book. I'm certainly looking forward to seeing him again.

This post has been edited by Aptorian: 18 October 2008 - 11:39 AM

#19 Greymane

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Posted 19 October 2008 - 12:12 AM

I don't feel like we know enough about Skinner to say whether he's a one dimensional villain or not. But credit where credit is due - he came to the realisation that the Vow had been rendered obsolete a long time before the rest of the Crimson Guard came to the same conclusion.

I have no excuses, least of all for God. Like all tyrants, he is not worthy of the spit you would waste on negotiations. The deal we have is infinitely simpler – I don't call him to account, and he extends me the same courtesy.