[Gem Windcaster]

Reiko;323746 said:

Btw I too think the Errant is outdated

Thankyou for that!

And yep, he reeks all the way over here, he does.

[Ain't_It_Just_]

What annoys me about the Errant is that he may know of K'rul, Mael, draconus (Elder Gods) and even the Crimson Guard, but he desn't even know about the Warrens! Nor does he know about the Deck. Yeah, he is Master of the Tiles, but its been 300000 years for God's sake!

[flea]

A said:

You mean doing a D'rek. Doing a Poliel would be the Errant going "Oh look a shiny fragment of metal I think I'll impale myself on it... Oh Noes!!! Otataral!!!"

The Errant is full of D'rek.

--flea, been waiting a long time for that lousy pun

[Aptorian]

Actually, the warrens are probably less than 100-70.000 years old, seeing as Lether is a 70.000 year old colony of the First Empire and they don't know about Houses. This suggests that Houses first came into play after Lether was settled.

[Bauchelain the Evil]

I don't find it so disturbing that he doesn't know about Warrens or Houses, I mean Gothos ritual isolated him, but it seems strange that he knows what the heck is the CGrd

[Aptorian]

Perhaps he learned as soon as the CriGs stepped on to his continents

[Ain't_It_Just_]

Aptorian;324131 said:

Perhaps he learned as soon as the CriGs stepped on to his continents

I doubt it. Then again, Seren Pedac learned damn fast. Speaking of which, can she use Mockra because she's a mage, or is it some odd talent? Explain it pl0x.

[Aptorian]

After seeing what Pedac was capable of in the end of RG, there's no doubt she has mage qualities.

I don't think there's a big difference between odd talents and mages. It's the level of "adeptness" that makes the difference. Sort of like calling someone an amateur photographer or historian, they know the same things as the "professionals" they just don't have the level of skill or talent.

Fiddler for example has some peculiar talents, and I don't doubt if he had gotten training from someone like Agayala, he would had developed some kind of "advanced talent". Perhaps just as a shoulderman... but who knows. Bottle's certainly curious about him.

[Sinisdar Toste]

then theres blend who thinks she's good at blending in because of a stone. when really she's a maenas adept

[Aptorian]

Or Mocra... would actually make more sense than meanas seeing as she also seemed to be able to sneak up on Quick.

[Sinisdar Toste]

that could be, the ability to subtly turn everyones attention away from her.

[The Archivist]

Dear Forum members,

Well, folks, the conversation has mostly gone in odd directions. Mainly, the love or hate the character. Gem, you might want to consider that writers create characters to invoke feelings in their readers. This would mean that Erikson has succeeded wonderfully with all the readers who love, hate and love to hate the Errant. In all an emotionally fraught character, no?

Second, I suggest the Errant is very, very old. Perhaps, the current version of the Errant is human but the postion is very old as one of the above quotes points out. (Thanks for that quote, I will give you some rep for that one.) When, Shadowthrone, Menandore and Hood are speaking in the pocket universe brokering the deal to allow Shadow access to SD briefly. They dismiss the Errant as an Elder. When confronting Featherwitch (just before he stabs her) and Kuru Qan's ghost, the Errant refers to himself as Elder. And most notable is the following quote from Samar Dev (just after the Errant regains his power):

"She closed the door, behind her, already muttering the ritual of sealing. Trouble out there, blood spilling and sizzling like acid. Dreadful events, something old beyond belief, exulting in new power- (Bantam TPB, 307)


The implication here is that the Errant is old, incredibly so.

[Danyah]

Well, since he and Mael seem to know each other, it is suggested he is Elder.

[Aptorian]

RAAAARRRHHH ELDER GOD DOES NOT MEAN ELDER GOD!

The Errant is old, but except for the Letherii myth, there's nothing that suggests he is older than the First Empire. Rather there are quotes that suggests that he is not older, or that much older, than the First Empire. Ganath suggests that he was mortal. A Master of the Tiles that ascended.

When people say Elder it basically means anything that's around a hundred thousand years old or more.

[The Archivist]

Aptorian;325423 said:

RAAAARRRHHH ELDER GOD DOES NOT MEAN ELDER GOD!

The Errant is old, but except for the Letherii myth, there's nothing that suggests he is older than the First Empire. Rather there are quotes that suggests that he is not older, or that much older, than the First Empire. Ganath suggests that he was mortal. A Master of the Tiles that ascended.

When people say Elder it basically means anything that's around a hundred thousand years old or more.

My apologies, Apt for touching a nerve but what does the Samar Dev quote mean then? I do not believe that the witch cannot stretch her imagination to only 100 thousand years. She knows about very old powers and she still expresses herself as something older then she can imagine. Menandore would be, at least, that old and Shadowthrone growls "Elders!" to insult the just left Errant. Can you tell me that Shadowthrone would be willing to insult the God he is trying to finagle? Or would he? Hmmm.

[Danyah]

And, if K'rul is the Elder god of the warrens, and the Errant is the master of the holds, and the holds pre-date the warrens, well,well...

I dunno

[Aptorian]

I'm not angry, the meaning of Elder Gods just gets brought up constantly.

There's the truly ancient Elder Gods who may be mother darks first children or elementals and there are the Elder Gods that are "merely" very old ascendants.

The Errant is an Elder God, he's just not a very old one in Elder perspective.

But what is this Samar Dev quote you speak of? Can't locate it.

[The Archivist]

It is on the bottom of my first post today.

Can be found on page 307 TPB, Bantam version

Oh, and I did not say Elder God. I said Elder. The character himself (and Shadowthrone) refers to himself as Elder. God is not used. I think the Elder are the ancient elemental forces. Is an elemental force (or a God) capable or taking someone over and then they ascend because of this possession? The simple answer is yes. Sorry's tale is Erikson's way of establishing exactly this. Therefore, an ancient power possessing a mortal man, pushing him to ascendancy and beyond would not be out of the realm of possibility. Especially, if the ancient power had abandoned the Forkrul Assail for another method of balance. Now, that would explain some emnity between the two.

[Danyah]

Well, he is one of the three realm forgers in the fulcra. He's an acquaintance to Mael. If you start forging realms, you pre-date society too I guess, just like an Elder God of the Sea. So not-as-Elder-as-the-elemental-Elders... I'm not buying it. My bet is he is true Elder, one of MT's first children.

[Aptorian]

I see that Samar Devs remark comes right after the Errant has just sunk the knife into the tiles. It does sound like it's the Errant she's talking about, but the phrase "Old beyond belief" I'm willing to chalk down to her ignorance/view of time through a mortals eyes or Erikson chosing those words for dramatic reflex.

EDIT: We don't know if this realm forging ever took place. It could just be a myth, just like Brother Light and Father Shadow and the Child of Indescribable Terror.

If the Errant is some kind of elemental force it's more likely it was a position a mortal man during the First Empire assumed.