[Tapper]

"Aptorian" said:

I don't understand why this is such a problem. Serc is the skywarren. Creating ice shouldn't be such a problem for someone using it. Either shenk managed a last assault that Greymane took the force of or Greymane triggered a ward and took the force of that one.

I don't know if ice leaves vapor in a much hotter invironment but it could just be a case of the armor heating up at the impact of the magic and the ice layer on the armor reacting to the heat.

A minor comment: while re-reading NoK during a long train journey today, I noticed that vapour rising/coiling from people/things seems to be a bit of an ICEism.

"Page 242 in the paperback (the ascendant in the rowing boat meeting an iceberg)" said:

: 'the instant vapour burst from the iceberg's leading spur, the Riders plunched beneath the ice-mulched surface.'

"Page 377 (Kiska in the Warren of the Queen of Dreams)" said:

: 'Right behind you,' came a taunt at Kiska's ear. She swung: empty vapour churned and curled.

In the fight around the deathhouse, there are alsomultiple mentions of how the earth is steaming (combination of the fog and magically created heat, I guess). No coiling of vapours, though...

"Page 396 (Kiska meets Tayschrenn outside the Deathhouse when he returns from his battle of wills with the Riders)" said:

: Vapour coiled from his shoulders.

I guess ICE likes his coffee or tea hot and steaming while writing... either that, or he uses it merely to describe how the magically created ice Greymane's been targeted with, fades away after the death of the magus.

[phart]

caladanbrood+;312862 said:

If it heats up quickly, ice would sublime at the same time that it melted (ie produce vapour) but it would hurt if that happened to your armour!!

Which is probably why Kyle is suprised no one commented.

On a point of pedantry i do not think the conditions would have been there for ice particles to sublimate in sufficient numbers to produce vapour visible, unless the ice was formed at higher pressures which creates different structures in the crystal which in turn affects the "vapour pressure" of the heating ice, and the vapour pressure in comparison with the air pressure which dictates if melting or sublimation occurs.

So basically if vapour pressure>atmospheric pressure sublimation can occur, this is all in an open system, in a closed system since the atmospheric pressure will be the vapour pressure, so sublimation cannot occur.

wow i'm a bore, right went and done the calculations

our air pressure is 101.325kPa or 1 atm, so basically anything under that for vapour pressure will result in melting, anything over sublimation.

working out vapour pressure is quite complex i have found using Wagners and Pruss formulae:

n(p/pc) = (a1τ + a2τ1.5 + a3τ3 + a4τ3.5 + a5τ4 + a6τ7.5)Tc/T

and looking up on tables 100 celsius gives us vapour pressure of 101.42, so basically unless it was over 100 degress celsius(atmospheric) there would be no water vapour.

right so basically my first sentence when i said i don't think the conditions would be suitable for sublimation looks ok.

Though if it does turn out to be just vapour then i dont think "ICE" can be taken to task for not doing the physics first, lol.

[farengi]

I don't know if this will be addressed in the later chapters ... but I'd really like more background info on the CG ... who exactly are they, how they formed, who is K'azz D'AVore, is he still alive, etc?

[Skywalker]

phart;315125 said:

On a point of pedantry i do not think the conditions would have been there for ice particles to sublimate in sufficient numbers to produce vapour visible, unless the ice was formed at higher pressures which creates different structures in the crystal which in turn affects the "vapour pressure" of the heating ice, and the vapour pressure in comparison with the air pressure which dictates if melting or sublimation occurs. (snip)

our air pressure is 101.325kPa or 1 atm, so basically anything under that for vapour pressure will result in melting, anything over sublimation.

working out vapour pressure is quite complex i have found using Wagners and Pruss formulae:

n(p/pc) = (a1τ + a2τ1.5 + a3τ3 + a4τ3.5 + a5τ4 + a6τ7.5)Tc/T

and looking up on tables 100 celsius gives us vapour pressure of 101.42, so basically unless it was over 100 degress celsius(atmospheric) there would be no water vapour.(snip)

You sir, are a true geek. Rep must be given. Even though I am loathe to read the equations you have put forth.

[Mentalist]

farengi;315140 said:

I don't know if this will be addressed in the later chapters ... but I'd really like more background info on the CG ... who exactly are they, how they formed, who is K'azz D'AVore, is he still alive, etc?

Have you read MBotF?
They are mentioned in GotM, MoI, and MT

D'avores are also discussed in HoC.

[lasombra]

Beru Beru Beru !!

[Aptorian]

You know that's pretty clever. I'd forgotten about the lord of storms.

[lasombra]

I think the most of us Forgot about him

[eekwibble]

Yes!!! Thoroughly enjoyed that!! Thanks Hetan, once again!
Vigo, I like your Greymane-Stonewielder-massive, disappearing, two-handed sword-Imass theory. It has merit. You have rep.:cool:
Phart, Skywalker is right, you are indeed a true geek and deserving of rep.:hand: But, "on a note of pedantry"; In my first job as 'chip boy' down the local chippy I had to get the fish out of the freezer to defrost and every time I opened the freezer I could see vapour rising and curling, and I can assure you it was never over 100 degrees C or even F in that shed, and that shit was REAL! I know, and I've seen it many times since. Here's a new equation:
Extremely cold and icy + sudden warmth = vapour.
Fact!
I guess ICE is just living up to his anacronism(sic).

[dktorode]

phart;315125 said:

On a point of pedantry i do not think the conditions would have been there for ice particles to sublimate in sufficient numbers to produce vapour visible, unless the ice was formed at higher pressures which creates different structures in the crystal which in turn affects the "vapour pressure" of the heating ice, and the vapour pressure in comparison with the air pressure which dictates if melting or sublimation occurs.

So basically if vapour pressure>atmospheric pressure sublimation can occur, this is all in an open system, in a closed system since the atmospheric pressure will be the vapour pressure, so sublimation cannot occur.

wow i'm a bore, right went and done the calculations

our air pressure is 101.325kPa or 1 atm, so basically anything under that for vapour pressure will result in melting, anything over sublimation.

working out vapour pressure is quite complex i have found using Wagners and Pruss formulae:

n(p/pc) = (a1τ + a2τ1.5 + a3τ3 + a4τ3.5 + a5τ4 + a6τ7.5)Tc/T

and looking up on tables 100 celsius gives us vapour pressure of 101.42, so basically unless it was over 100 degress celsius(atmospheric) there would be no water vapour.

right so basically my first sentence when i said i don't think the conditions would be suitable for sublimation looks ok.

Though if it does turn out to be just vapour then i dont think "ICE" can be taken to task for not doing the physics first, lol.

You ever see a rugby/football player on a cold day give off vapor?
I think its more that kind of vapor ICE is talking about. :cool:

[phart]

dktorode;316036 said:

You ever see a rugby/football player on a cold day give off vapor?
I think its more that kind of vapor ICE is talking about. :cool:

More than likely brother i was just being pedantic

[phart]

Skywalker;315142 said:

You sir, are a true geek. Rep must be given. Even though I am loathe to read the equations you have put forth.

cheers lol, anytime i see soemthing like that i always wonder, "i wonder if i can see if thats right"

As i say if it is just vapour i doubt we can call ICE on it, as im sure the physicists who made the theory never had access to a warren to test it

[phart]

eekwibble;316035 said:

Yes!!! Thoroughly enjoyed that!! Thanks Hetan, once again!
Vigo, I like your Greymane-Stonewielder-massive, disappearing, two-handed sword-Imass theory. It has merit. You have rep.:cool:
Phart, Skywalker is right, you are indeed a true geek and deserving of rep.:hand: But, "on a note of pedantry"; In my first job as 'chip boy' down the local chippy I had to get the fish out of the freezer to defrost and every time I opened the freezer I could see vapour rising and curling, and I can assure you it was never over 100 degrees C or even F in that shed, and that shit was REAL! I know, and I've seen it many times since. Here's a new equation:
Extremely cold and icy + sudden warmth = vapour.
Fact!
I guess ICE is just living up to his anacronism.

Indeed as others have pointed out the observations contradict the theory, so i'm probably wrong, but then i never checked the conditions so i might be talking a lot of vapour. I'm sure i'll be forgiven if i dont go back and check all this lol.

[dktorode]

phart;316054 said:

More than likely brother i was just being pedantic

dont make me get the bear

[Denuth]

Okay, that was awesome, I'm not 100% sure about the last little bit but is Kyle talking aabout the Avowed in the last couple of lines?

[James]

That has now guaranteed that i will be buying this book asap. Its a nice perspective of the CrimGrd in respect to Kyles. Will definitely be a cool book.