[Adjutant Stormy~]

Mr.Warren;331182 said:

wasn't there some mention of Fiddler being a mason like Whiskeyjack?
only he was real crap at being a mason.....
which leads me to think that WJ might be the mason for high house of death, due to hoods involvement of his life/death
[a speculation that probably already has been voiced no doubt, but still]

But the idea of fid being the soldier of high house life does seem like an interesting concept, and along those lines do you think Leoman might become champion for high house of life then too? - oh sure lots of reasons why he wouldn't be good for the job, but in the interest in plot twisting it could happen.

If you look in the Dramatis Personae for your latest Malazan novel of choice, I believe that it puts WJ as confirmed Mason of Death. I don't have mine on hand (I am at work :S).

[Rath'Thrash]

Mr.Warren;331182 said:

do you think Leoman might become champion for high house of life then too?

IMO that would be one hell of a wierd twist! Considering his actions in tBH I'd say he has a complete disregard for life other than his own.

[Rath'Thrash]

paladin;328761 said:

Fiddler is the type of person that people will start to worship. An army of insane sappers with cussers on crossbows worshipping Fiddler the Sapper God, King of High House Boom.

Awesome.

[Daemon_Monkey]

I'm surprised no one's mentioned the Tanno Spiritwalker's song yet, surely thats puts fid on the edge of ascendancy, though whether he has to die first is a whole new argument

[Grief]

The spiritwalkers song applies to the whole of the bridgeburners, not just Fid.

[Daemon_Monkey]

Grief;351102 said:

The spiritwalkers song applies to the whole of the bridgeburners, not just Fid.

I know but he's pretty much the only one still active at this point who wasn't already some sort of insanely powerful mage or incredibly skilled assassin. Hence the song might have a more noticeable effect

[Skywalker]

Daemon_Monkey;352498 said:

I know but he's pretty much the only one still active at this point who wasn't already some sort of insanely powerful mage or incredibly skilled assassin. Hence the song might have a more noticeable effect

Um... not really... Detoran, Antsy, Picker, Trotts (and many more) were still active on Genabackis - most did die in Black Coral (MOI), but were around for a while at least after the song was sung

[Daemon_Monkey]

by "at this point" i meant, characters featured up until the bonehunters/reapers gale. Hence none of the survivors from black Coral. I probably should have been clearer

[Old Hunch Arbat]

I will go with Apt's description of Fiddler, but with a caveat/addendum.

Since the Tanno's song all Fid's natural talents and his actions have a little more "push" to them. His decisions are a little more insightful, his capacity to compel loyalty more potent, his intuition a bit more uncanny, his own songs are a bit more embracing and radiant, he is stronger and faster, he resists aging, and he is, perhaps, about to become...

What occurs in RG may make this more likely.

OHA

[Darts]

Fiddler is Chuck Norris!

I've always tought of Fid as a highly experienced veteran, and thats why he gets his "bad feelings" and seem to have a knack at keeping people alive. This doesnt mean that he doesn't have some sort of special talent, but I think him being really good at his job is what really matters...

[The Drum]

IMHO I think Fid is very close to ascending, probably due to a number of things, firstly his natural talent with the deck (which possibly rivals Tattersail who was a high mage), secondly by the Tanno spiritwalkers song has somehow gifted him and thirdly by being part of the Bridgeburners who were 'blessed' by Ganoes Paran. I'm sure that in the earlier books Fid's talents were less obvious so they've evolved through the series.

If Fid dies, do you think he would ascend on his own or with the already dead Bridgeburners? Perhaps cos he survived Black Coral and moved on, he's gained some of the power from the ascending BB's that has added to his talent? and now that he's a BH he'll ascend to something seperate possibly a soilder in one of the high houses.

Can anyone tell me if someone has to die in order to ascend?

[Ain't_It_Just_]

Unknown, but the BB's have to die first. Otherwise they're just malingering in the mortal realm.

And Fid wasn't at Black Coral.

[The Drum]

Ain't_It_Just_, on Nov 19 2008, 10:55 AM, said:

And Fid wasn't at Black Coral.

Therefore he survived

among others Caladan Brood and Anomander Rake are Ascendants, but they're both alive so what does being an ascendant actually mean?

[Jude]

There's a super good description in TbH somewhere of what an ascendant is. It's basically someone who is way more badass than an average mortal. You don't have to die to become an ascendant and one ascendant can be way more powerful than another. For instance. Rake is an ascendant and can hand anything it's ass, as opposed to Gesler and Coltain who, in DG, if not ascended, are a milimeter away from it. So an ascendant is more long lived, tougher, stronger, faster, and all around better than a mortal. Then, if that ascendant gets people worshipping him or her, or claims a throne of a realm, that ascendant is a God. This doesn't necassarily make the person more powerful. Rake isn't a god because he refuses to accept people worshipping him, but he can still probably beat the crap out of ST.

This post has been edited by Jude: 21 November 2008 - 12:10 AM

[Aptorian]

I think ascendants are summed up well as simply being potent. Possibility and power whirls about them, in some more than others. They upset the balance and that's why they become so dangerous.

[Urizen]

Where does it say you have to die to ascend? No ascendant (besides the Bridgeburners who are a special case) has died to ascend. Daseem Ultor? Nope, he was alive after Y'gathan(Sp?), Kellanved and Dancer? Nope, Nok make it clear that they never died.

[Sinisdar Toste]

trake died to ascend... and it isn't really clear if kellenved and dancer died or not... they apparently fell from mocks hold, but then were seen entering the rear door of the deadhouse, who knows what they were doing in between, could have been some form of dying. now im not saying dying to ascend is essential, its just one way to go about it.

[T'renn]

So Fiddler is about to ascend, eh ?

Worship is know what is needed

Quote

Bottle saw Cuttle starring at the Sergean (Fiddler) with undisguised awe and more than a little worship.

And a bit more. Probably from other sappers

Then you get "All hail Fiddler, Lord of the Sappers" as it said in Reapers Gail

[Ain't_It_Just_]

Jude, on Nov 21 2008, 11:08 AM, said:

There's a super good description in TbH somewhere of what an ascendant is. It's basically someone who is way more badass than an average mortal. You don't have to die to become an ascendant and one ascendant can be way more powerful than another. For instance. Rake is an ascendant and can hand anything it's ass, as opposed to Gesler and Coltain who, in DG, if not ascended, are a milimeter away from it. So an ascendant is more long lived, tougher, stronger, faster, and all around better than a mortal. Then, if that ascendant gets people worshipping him or her, or claims a throne of a realm, that ascendant is a God. This doesn't necassarily make the person more powerful. Rake isn't a god because he refuses to accept people worshipping him, but he can still probably beat the crap out of ST.

Yeah, Paran said an ascendant's actions always caused ripples.

And that if they punched someone, they'd probably go through a wall.

[Urizen]

Sinisdar Toste, on Nov 22 2008, 05:46 AM, said:

trake died to ascend... and it isn't really clear if kellenved and dancer died or not... they apparently fell from mocks hold, but then were seen entering the rear door of the deadhouse, who knows what they were doing in between, could have been some form of dying. now im not saying dying to ascend is essential, its just one way to go about it.

I seem to remeber that the title of First Hero is just an old way of refering to Ascendants so Trake was already an ascendant when he died. He went from Ascendant to God by dying.

As to Kellanved and Dancer; If they died and ascended off screen, why would they appear all cut up and in really bad shape as they make their way to the Deadhouse?