[SonOfDarkness]

Ive read alot about how it is inevetable that he will be a character who dies in the series.

Can he truly be killed though? In the book, there are gods who fade away like Mael and Krul, who come back. but do they die? Correct me if im wrong but Rake is not a god but he is a very powerful Character. and it will take more than a mortal such as Karsa ( as people predict ) to kill him.

If not Karsa then whom? Gods will have to gather together perhaps like for the chaining to take down the lord of moons spawn, I just dont see it happening, more like I hope it doesnt happen

Also When Silchas was stabed by Scabi, He said something along the lines of " I dont have the power to kill you but I will imprison you " Hence the Azath prisoning.

The way I see it, I see Rake perhaps beign imprisoned if anything, but completely getting killed off might be a far fetched prediction.

Then again you never know SE.

If Rake does get killed then it will take some some powerful beings to colabirate such a thing.

Also is Rake an Ascendant?

[Mentalist]

Rake is most Certainly an Ascendant.
However, I feel you're downplayinf Karsa A LOT here. not only is he clearly an Ascendant, he's soon-to-be-if-not-already God in his own right.

While I do not believe that Karsa will kill Rake in a spectacular showdown, I do believe that Rake may die. there are lots of things powerful enough to kill a singel ascendant out there.... if CG is unchained, for example, he's supposed to be strong enough to wipe out everyine, Rake included.

[Sinisdar Toste]

rake=ascendant, this we know. the way i see it, killing off rake would take a convergence of epic propportions. one that beggars belief, one that all the gods in the realm are advancing towards, one that surprise, surprise is going to be happening in TtH, information courtesy of Cot. and SE in conjunction. so could we see A-Rake killed off next book? hell yeah i say, but the collateral damage is gonna be sickening.

edit: can i not get one first reply ever?
edit edit: either that or it'll be totally anti-climatic.

[Aptorian]

To answer your last question firs, Rake is of course an ascendant. He was born that way.

Rake can easily be killed, Clip will probably stab him when he's on the loo or something. Killing his physical form isn't the problem, like you write his soul can probably come back if it isn't contained.

EDIT: Damn I'm slow today.

[SonOfDarkness]

kud13;290475 said:

Rake is most Certainly an Ascendant.
However, I feel you're downplayinf Karsa A LOT here. not only is he clearly an Ascendant, he's soon-to-be-if-not-already God in his own right.

While I do not believe that Karsa will kill Rake in a spectacular showdown, I do believe that Rake may die. there are lots of things powerful enough to kill a singel ascendant out there.... if CG is unchained, for example, he's supposed to be strong enough to wipe out everyine, Rake included.

Im not downplaying Karsa at all. I consider Karsa to be a very powerful character, one of my favourites infact. Top 3 for sure. I was just using him as an example to make the point of needing more than 1 person to kill someone such as Rake.

Thank you for clarifying Rakes Ascendancy.

[Aptorian]

Why do you think an army or a massively powerfull character is needed to take out Rake? If a hobo of the street walks up to him and puts a knife in his heart he's dead. Then and there.

[SiriusL]

Aptorian;290488 said:

Why do you think an army or a massively powerfull character is needed to take out Rake? If a hobo of the street walks up to him and puts a knife in his heart he's dead. Then and there.

What about Ruin, though? Scabandari clearly couldn't kill him, and Rake has to be close to Ruin's power level.

Then again, the only reason Kimlandaros couldn't kill Scabandari was because of Gothos's ritual.

:confused:

[Obdigore]

SiriusL;290507 said:

What about Ruin, though? Scabandari clearly couldn't kill him, and Rake has to be close to Ruin's power level.

Then again, the only reason Kimlandaros couldn't kill Scabandari was because of Gothos's ritual.

:confused:

No, Bloodeye didnt want to spend the power necessary to kill him.

Rake wasn't sure he could take the Galayn Lord, who was a servant of Tays in GOTM.

The only reason ascendents/gods don't slay each other is because it would use much of their 'power', and the others would smell the blood and come looking for a weak rival to dispatch.

And Kilimandaros was going to shatter Scabby's skull, but free his soul to work vengenace, because she wasn't used to dealing with Ascendants, imo.

It seems that gods/ascendants don't vary that much in power. Iccy is one of the truly feared ascendants floating around, and QB/Trull together could have possibly killed him. Much less if you add another ascendant or two in there.

[Optimus Prime]

I wouldn't expect Rake to go out in some mega showdown and display of power....knowing SE...(as much as we can) it will be some dirty, underhanded shitty way that makes you throw the book across the room....and then immediately run over and pick the book up.

We've all done it.

[SonOfDarkness]

Obdigore;290514 said:

No, Bloodeye didnt want to spend the power necessary to kill him.

Rake wasn't sure he could take the Galayn Lord, who was a servant of Tays in GOTM.

The only reason ascendents/gods don't slay each other is because it would use much of their 'power', and the others would smell the blood and come looking for a weak rival to dispatch.

And Kilimandaros was going to shatter Scabby's skull, but free his soul to work vengenace, because she wasn't used to dealing with Ascendants, imo.

It seems that gods/ascendants don't vary that much in power. Iccy is one of the truly feared ascendants floating around, and QB/Trull together could have possibly killed him. Much less if you add another ascendant or two in there.

I dont see it anywhere that scabi is stopping himself from killing Ruin because of him spending too much power/ Energy.

Im at work so I cant get the direct quote but he said Something along the lines of him being unable to kill Ruin. The context was not of him spending power. The context was swaying more towards him not being able, not capable of such a thing. I may be wrong, will definately re-read that when I get home.

About the gods killing gods part.I dont think its about wasting power between gods that stop them. Its about other gods claiming revenge and them shattering the order in which the gods have, or atleast seem to have. Otherwise there would be a god on god Frenzy. Which we are coming to see more and more.

[Possum]

Quote

I wouldn't expect Rake to go out in some mega showdown and display of power....knowing SE...(as much as we can) it will be some dirty, underhanded shitty way that makes you throw the book across the room....and then immediately run over and pick the book up.

Agreed i would think it more likely that Rake goes out being stabbed in the back (maybe not literally) rather than an epic battle that say blows a continent apart!

I think Rake and his death, if he has one will have something to do with Draconus and him getting freed from Dragnipur!

It hasn't as far as im aware been clarified if Draconus holds rake in contempt or hungers for vengeance i can only presume he does seeing as Rake put him there in the first place.

[Dancer+]

Draconus has been humbled by his time in the sword - he does not hold much animosity towards Rake.
I think this whole Ruin point is quite odd, anyone should have been able to kill Ruin in my opinion. Perhaps it was because of Gothos' ritual again? When was Gothos' ritual implemented?
I thought it was before the Ruin/Scabi event.

[SonOfDarkness]

Dancer;290552 said:

Draconus has been humbled by his time in the sword - he does not hold much animosity towards Rake.
I think this whole Ruin point is quite odd, anyone should have been able to kill Ruin in my opinion. Perhaps it was because of Gothos' ritual again? When was Gothos' ritual implemented?
I thought it was before the Ruin/Scabi event.

I believe the ritual was after Scabi stabbed Ruin.

After the Betrayel and the blood was shed, it cut to the scene of Mael and Gothos conversation and about Osserc Intercepting Rake.

Again i may be mistake, can only confirm when I re-read at home.

[Dancer+]

If Gothos did it after the stabbing but before Scabby's demise then he wanted Scabby to be imprisioned and that could have been his sole reason for undertaking the ritual. The gap between the stabbing and the demise scene was a very short period of time. I think a read of the prologue of Reaper's Gale will yield some answers, it does sound right however.

[KarsaPast]

Gothos' started the ritual after he put Scabby's soul into a Finnest.

[Possum]

Dancer;290552 said:

Draconus has been humbled by his time in the sword - he does not hold much animosity towards Rake.

Alright i wasn't too sure if that was the case or not as i couldn't quite remember if anything had been said regarding Draconus being pissed at Rake, but other beings in that sword may not be as humbled as Draconus, and if and when the sword brakes could very well want to try and destroy Rake first chance they get.

I may just be jumping the gun thinking that Dragnipur will be broken, but its just something i think will happen sooner or later.

[Dancer+]

Gothos finished the ritual after putting Scabby's soul into a Finnest.

From the prologue during the Scabby/Mael/Kilmandros/Gothos scene.
Mael, Elder God of the seas, asked, 'The Ritual...are you done, Gothos?'
'More or less.'

'Very well, Kilmandros. Within the ritual that now descends upon this land, upon the battlefields and these ugly forests, death itself is denied. Should you kill the Tiste Edur here, his soul will be unleashed from his flesh, but it will remain, only marginally reduced in power.'

Interestingly does Mael have some connection to the ritual? What was the purpose of the ritual?

[KarsaPast]

Ha, good.
My memory has been horrible lately.
Wasn't the ritual supposed to stop the complete destruction of KE?

[Venerus]

Gothos didn't finish until at least after Scabs stabbed Ruin. From MT prologue:

Quote

"A Jaghut stands atop a ridge to the north," Silchas Ruin said. "Witness to the war. I did not approach, for I sensed the beginning of a ritual, Omtose Phellack."

Moments after that comment (the ritual is still beginning) Scabs stabs Ruin. And Scabandari is unable to kill Ruin. From MT, Scabandari's words:

Quote

"Aye, I cannot kill you outright -- you are too powerful for that. Thus, I will take you to a suitable place, and leave you to the roots, earth and stone of its mangled grounds..."

Unable to -- not because of the ritual, but specifically because Ruin is "too powerful" for that.

Dancer;290563 said:

Interestingly does Mael have some connection to the ritual? What was the purpose of the ritual?

The answer is a very emphatic "yes" although why Mael asked Gothos to make the ritual the way he did is still undisclosed. Mael and Gothos, from MT prologue:

Quote

"Gothos," Mael rasped, "what ritual do you invoke to answer this?"
The Jaghut scowled. "They've made a mess. I mean to cleanse it."
"Ice," the Elder god snorted. "The Jaghut answer to everything."
(skip)
Mael was silent for a time, then he sighed and said, "With your ice, Gothos, do not destroy all of this. Instead, I ask that you... preserve."
"Why?"
"I have my reasons."
"I am please for you. What are they?"
The Elder god shot him a dark look. "Impudent bastard."
"Why change?"
"In the seas, Jaghut, time is unveiled. In the depths ride the currents of vast antiquity. In the shallows whisper the future. The tides flow between them in ceaseless exchange. Such is my realm. Such is my knowledge. Seal this devastation in your damned ice, Gothos. In this place, freeze time itself. Do this, and I will accept indebtedness to you.. which on day you might find useful."

No reason given, except that Mael can see the future and knows something about what's to come. Given how chatty he is throughout MT about there being no Hold of Death, and how there should be etc etc, and since the reason for that is Gothos' ritual... maybe he wanted to deny death for..... some reason? Or maybe it has to do with Scabandari, the Finnest, and the Refugium? I dunno, just wild guesses on my part. Since we don't know what it was that Mael saw, I figure that'll be fodder for books 9 and 10.

[SiriusL]

Venerus;290570 said:

The answer is a very emphatic "yes" although why Mael asked Gothos to make the ritual the way he did is still undisclosed...

Moreover, whatever Gothos had planned and had already started, it wasn't going to preserve anything, it was going to "cleanse" it.

"Dancer" said:

Gothos finished the ritual after putting Scabby's soul into a Finnest.

and

"Karsa" said:

Gothos' started the ritual after he put Scabby's soul into a Finnest.

Where do you guys get this? The quote earlier of Gothos talking to Kilmandaros clearly shows that it is the ritual that will keep Scabandari from dying.

That's why I was questioning the whole thing. Ruin is too poweful for Scabandari to kill, but Scabandari would ordinarily have died if Kilmandaros had...um...killed him. Doesn't make much sense, unless Scabandari was severely weakened at that point.