[Giantblaze]

What does everyone think the next book is going to cover? Since it is a trilogy it could possibly cover them taking over Malaz City, or it could be something else and the last book could be them finally taking Malaz.

[Nevyn]

Giantblaze, on 10 March 2016 - 08:43 PM, said:

What does everyone think the next book is going to cover? Since it is a trilogy it could possibly cover them taking over Malaz City, or it could be something else and the last book could be them finally taking Malaz.

If it stays a trilogy, next one should be taking over Malaz and getting the family together ... maybe even headed for Unta. I am assuming trilogy will end with fall of Li Heng to bring things full circle.

[Abyss]

Apt, on 10 March 2016 - 04:27 PM, said:

Regarding Dancer as a mage. One thing I find strange is that in HoC I am sure Bithal refers to Dancer as the High Priest/Leader of the Shadow Cult. How do you lead a cult of shadow as a non-mage?

You don't need to be a mage or even have powers of any sort to lead a cult. Sure, it helps, but it's not a prequisite or something.

Any priest sufficiently invested by their particular god (or whatever) can have sorcery. It's just a lower end variation of the whole Destriant/Shield Anvil/Mortal Sword thing.

Stormy/Gesler/Truth near ascended by passing briefly through Kurald Thyrllan. Who knows what continued travel through Shadow with Kellanved might do to Dorin.

[Abyss]

Nevyn, on 10 March 2016 - 09:05 PM, said:

Giantblaze, on 10 March 2016 - 08:43 PM, said:

What does everyone think the next book is going to cover? Since it is a trilogy it could possibly cover them taking over Malaz City, or it could be something else and the last book could be them finally taking Malaz.

If it stays a trilogy, next one should be taking over Malaz and getting the family together ... maybe even headed for Unta. I am assuming trilogy will end with fall of Li Heng to bring things full circle.

My bet is book 2 deals with the takeover of Malaz Island, or possibly Unta which is when the Empire truly becomes a serious power. There isn't really any need to show every single conquest and that could take six books, but either of those gives us Whiskeyjack, Dujek, Surly and likely the rest of the Family (and we all know ICE loves writing Cartheron Crust). Somewhere in there is the purge of the other Shadow and Darkness cults, which could also figure.

Bk 3 would cover the actual Path to Ascension, showing whatever Kel/Dancer were up to between leaving Laseen in charge of the Empire and when they return in NoK.

[Giantblaze]

Abyss, on 10 March 2016 - 09:30 PM, said:

Nevyn, on 10 March 2016 - 09:05 PM, said:

Giantblaze, on 10 March 2016 - 08:43 PM, said:

What does everyone think the next book is going to cover? Since it is a trilogy it could possibly cover them taking over Malaz City, or it could be something else and the last book could be them finally taking Malaz.

If it stays a trilogy, next one should be taking over Malaz and getting the family together ... maybe even headed for Unta. I am assuming trilogy will end with fall of Li Heng to bring things full circle.

My bet is book 2 deals with the takeover of Malaz Island, or possibly Unta which is when the Empire truly becomes a serious power. There isn't really any need to show every single conquest and that could take six books, but either of those gives us Whiskeyjack, Dujek, Surly and likely the rest of the Family (and we all know ICE loves writing Cartheron Crust). Somewhere in there is the purge of the other Shadow and Darkness cults, which could also figure.

Bk 3 would cover the actual Path to Ascension, showing whatever Kel/Dancer were up to between leaving Laseen in charge of the Empire and when they return in NoK.

I think book 2 is going to start either with them exploring the warren or running Smiley's, and early on they are going to meet most of the "old guard". Somewhere in the early middle of the book I'm guessing they are going to find the deadhouse. Then near the end they are going to take the island.
I'm not sure what the 3rd one will follow, either them going back to Li Heng or cover the time they explored the Azath House's. I personally hope they don't go to much into what they did between the time they disappeared and NoK. I really like the mystery in that and even if they make it awesome I feel like it will give away too much.

[Abyss]

I can't quite decide whether Li Heng is worth a third visit. Fundamentally we know what happens... The Malazan army shows up, Dancer and/or Talons take out the Protectress and the city falls. Ffwd to the coup attempt in RCG.Dancer confronting the Protectress again might be interesting... we know Mara and Smokey end up w the CGuard while Silk joins the Malazans.

[Giantblaze]

Abyss, on 11 March 2016 - 01:48 AM, said:

I can't quite decide whether Li Heng is worth a third visit. Fundamentally we know what happens... The Malazan army shows up, Dancer and/or Talons take out the Protectress and the city falls. Ffwd to the coup attempt in RCG.Dancer confronting the Protectress again might be interesting... we know Mara and Smokey end up w the CGuard while Silk joins the Malazans.

I think it would be interesting if they at least added it for a part of the book, because I am really interested in the next meeting between Dancer and the Protectress. Maybe they will save them actually forming the empire till the last book and maybe have them doing something in seven cities during the second, like looking into all the cults of shadow there.

[Nevyn]

Abyss, on 11 March 2016 - 01:48 AM, said:

I can't quite decide whether Li Heng is worth a third visit. Fundamentally we know what happens... The Malazan army shows up, Dancer and/or Talons take out the Protectress and the city falls. Ffwd to the coup attempt in RCG.Dancer confronting the Protectress again might be interesting... we know Mara and Smokey end up w the CGuard while Silk joins the Malazans.

Right, but the story focused enough on those characters that it feels like it is bound to return and show how they end up where they are going.

Also, as per RotCG they use the Imass to conquer the city and help Dancer with the assassination, which is likely their first use of them.

I get what you are saying, but I'm pretty sure that will be featured. Especially if the box relates to the Imass.

[Giantblaze]

Nevyn, on 11 March 2016 - 02:35 AM, said:

Abyss, on 11 March 2016 - 01:48 AM, said:

I can't quite decide whether Li Heng is worth a third visit. Fundamentally we know what happens... The Malazan army shows up, Dancer and/or Talons take out the Protectress and the city falls. Ffwd to the coup attempt in RCG.Dancer confronting the Protectress again might be interesting... we know Mara and Smokey end up w the CGuard while Silk joins the Malazans.

Right, but the story focused enough on those characters that it feels like it is bound to return and show how they end up where they are going.

Also, as per RotCG they use the Imass to conquer the city and help Dancer with the assassination, which is likely their first use of them.

I get what you are saying, but I'm pretty sure that will be featured. Especially if the box relates to the Imass.

I agree, they put enough focus on Li Heng that it is almost certain that they will do a full circle back too it.

[Morgoth]

It feels probable yes, but the focus might also be there as a tie in to RotCG. Besides, wouldn't ICE want to explore other of the big cities given the chance?

Anyways, as for the whole Dancer and magic thing. Dancer is not on the throne, but he is an ascended co-ruler of Shadow. Of course he has powers related to shadow. That doesn't make him a mage necessarily, but it does make him able to draw on the power of Shadow, so I guess the distinction is semantic at best.

[Giantblaze]

So I was working on a reread of the series, and in Deadhouse gates Fiddler says "The Emperor clashed with both Treach and Ryllandaras outside of Li Heng. I was there." So either ICE forgot about that or Ryllandaras is going to get set free some time and then imprisoned again.

[blackzoid]

Yes, from what Silk remembers in RoTCG, didnt the Emperor use himself as bait to trick Ryllandaras?
We kidna have to return to Li Heng anyway to pick up Dassems story.

Also, and this may have been a case of co-author mixup, but isnt there a rememberance from one of the marines in Reaper's Gale, that it was at Li Heng where Kellevand awakened the Logros T'lan Imass? That one evening this marine saw Imass on the palace walls and knew that the city had fallen? Something like that.
The First Throne is on Quan Tali right?

EDit: Yes, its Throatslitter's Father.
Google throws up this link as I dont have the book in front of me:
https://books.google.ie/books?id=K9VCzwQZ9aMC&pg=PA618&lpg=PA618&dq=reaper%27s+gale+li+Heng&source=bl&ots=nrA0WJ1Daj&sig=sjdRUcGwkElIn2-G9QHo2Qau3xk&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj_gMCdyLjLAhXI_w4KHfrnAmwQ6AEIHjAA#v=onepage&q=reaper's%20gale%20li%20Heng&f=false

Along with the re-imprisioning of Ryllandaras, this might be part of book 3.

This post has been edited by blackzoid: 11 March 2016 - 11:55 AM

[Abyss]

Giantblaze, on 11 March 2016 - 01:50 AM, said:

Abyss, on 11 March 2016 - 01:48 AM, said:

I can't quite decide whether Li Heng is worth a third visit. Fundamentally we know what happens... The Malazan army shows up, Dancer and/or Talons take out the Protectress and the city falls. Ffwd to the coup attempt in RCG.Dancer confronting the Protectress again might be interesting... we know Mara and Smokey end up w the CGuard while Silk joins the Malazans.

I think it would be interesting if they at least added it for a part of the book, because I am really interested in the next meeting between Dancer and the Protectress. Maybe they will save them actually forming the empire till the last book and maybe have them doing something in seven cities during the second, like looking into all the cults of shadow there.

It's that the trilo is titled 'The Path to Ascension', not 'The Path to Empire'... but hey, after Assail we know ICE can go pretty much anywhere with anything (and I'm totally cool w that).

Nevyn, on 11 March 2016 - 02:35 AM, said:

Right, but the story focused enough on those characters that it feels like it is bound to return and show how they end up where they are going.

Also, as per RotCG they use the Imass to conquer the city and help Dancer with the assassination, which is likely their first use of them.

I get what you are saying, but I'm pretty sure that will be featured. Especially if the box relates to the Imass.

You make a v good point re the Imass and the box and how that would circle back to Li Heng.

Morgoth, on 11 March 2016 - 07:21 AM, said:

It feels probable yes, but the focus might also be there as a tie in to RotCG. Besides, wouldn't ICE want to explore other of the big cities given the chance?...

See, that's where I go, but considering all the history layered on Heng and that it's where RCG starts, more or less, I'm starting to think the 'back to Li Heng'ists' may have something.

Giantblaze, on 11 March 2016 - 09:04 AM, said:

So I was working on a reread of the series, and in Deadhouse gates Fiddler says "The Emperor clashed with both Treach and Ryllandaras outside of Li Heng. I was there." So either ICE forgot about that or Ryllandaras is going to get set free some time and then imprisoned again.

This too.

We know that at some point the Protectress' swords have to end up jammed in the chains, also, it seems Ryll hasn't split off his more sane chunks into D'ivers yet. The Ryll we saw in RCG was a non-talking killing machine.

blackzoid, on 11 March 2016 - 09:40 AM, said:

Yes, from what Silk remembers in RoTCG, didnt the Emperor use himself as bait to trick Ryllandaras?
We kidna have to return to Li Heng anyway to pick up Dassems story.

Also, and this may have been a case of co-author mixup, but isnt there a rememberance from one of the marines in Reaper's Gale, that it was at Li Heng where Kellevand awakened the Logros T'lan Imass? That one evening this marine saw Imass on the palace walls and knew that the city had fallen? Something like that.
The First Throne is on Quan Tali right?

EDit: Yes, its Throatslitter's Father.
Google throws up this link as I dont have the book in front of me:
https://books.google.ie/books?id=K9VCzwQZ9aMC&pg=PA618&lpg=PA618&dq=reaper%27s+gale+li+Heng&source=bl&ots=nrA0WJ1Daj&sig=sjdRUcGwkElIn2-G9QHo2Qau3xk&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj_gMCdyLjLAhXI_w4KHfrnAmwQ6AEIHjAA#v=onepage&q=reaper's%20gale%20li%20Heng&f=false

Along with the re-imprisioning of Ryllandaras, this might be part of book 3.

Nice. Rep for the obscure quote fu.

Morgoth, on 11 March 2016 - 07:21 AM, said:

Anyways, as for the whole Dancer and magic thing. Dancer is not on the throne, but he is an ascended co-ruler of Shadow. Of course he has powers related to shadow. That doesn't make him a mage necessarily, but it does make him able to draw on the power of Shadow, so I guess the distinction is semantic at best.

This.

[Giantblaze]

I have a feeling in one of the next 2 books they are going to run into Anomander Rake, since he was mentioned in this book and I don't remember what book it was but I remember there was something about how moon spawn almost came in a confrontation with the empire before when Kellanved and Dancer were in charger and that for some reason Moon's Spawn turned away. I think they also said something about how think maybe Kellaved and Dancer snuck into moon's spawn.

Edit: It was in GotM, "Tattersail recalled that the Empire had locked horns with the Moon's mysterious lord once before, in the days of the Emperor. Things had threatened to get ugly, but then Moon's Spawn withdrew from the game." I can't find where anything says people think they snuck into Moon's Spawn, but I remember it somewhere.

This post has been edited by Giantblaze: 11 March 2016 - 08:15 PM

[Kalam&Quick]

Giantblaze, on 11 March 2016 - 07:11 PM, said:

I have a feeling in one of the next 2 books they are going to run into Anomander Rake, since he was mentioned in this book and I don't remember what book it was but I remember there was something about how moon spawn almost came in a confrontation with the empire before when Kellanved and Dancer were in charger and that for some reason Moon's Spawn turned away. I think they also said something about how think maybe Kellaved and Dancer snuck into moon's spawn.

Edit: It was in GotM, "Tattersail recalled that the Empire had locked horns with the Moon's mysterious lord once before, in the days of the Emperor. Things had threatened to get ugly, but then Moon's Spawn withdrew from the game." I can't find where anything says people think they snuck into Moon's Spawn, but I remember it somewhere.

Good catch!
i would really like to a confrontation between K&D and Rake. especially with how Rake speaks with shadowthrone in GotM, it seemed like that had met before, but through out the series i could never think of it ever being mentioned until reading this quote.

Would also like to hear more about K&D not only finding the first throne but their trips through the warrens. i mean, most of the warrens are pretty well covered by people/gods/ascendants, and i would to know just which ones they DID manage to sneak into.

KG i can see, being as empty as it is, KT? with all those tiste liosan running around would be interesting. Could they have maybe meddled into the holds too? have they ever encountered Mael in his warren?(though probably not, seeing as his is an ocean) what about starved dormlain? would be interesting to get atleast a quick bit about some of the less touched upon warrens too. ones that both main series haven't travelled into much.
i mean. we've seen lots of KG, and lots of KE, we've had plenty of pages of the imperial warren,and on hoods warren(or atleast the gate for it) etc. but what about warrens like denial/driss/serc/Aral Gamelain or some of the elders like OP. would love to see K&D running into a few more jaghuts.

[Abyss]

Ok, this has been delayed long enuf... Let's do this thing...DANCER'S LAMENT... Abyss JUST FNISHED IT.... A few days ago, but whatever...

I've always enjoyed ICE's books. Some more, some less, but for me he's never delivered a book I didn't think was worth the eyeball time and dollars.His writing holds my attention and at times hits that level of DidIjustreadTHAT?!!???? I so crave in fantasy lit.LAMENT was a little different... This time, ICE came in hot and held it nice and level throughout. The entire story just worked at a really high level of Malazan goodness. Nothing felt like filler, nothing felt like I was waiting for e next big moment, everything just worked. There were less big epic moments, and no storylines that felt less significant than others. LAMENT is one coherent story, the different parts interweaving and overlapping, and th characters carrying the book more than the events. It was a really enjoyable read.

DORIN: I bought Dorin and the precursor to the Cotillion we came to know in the MBF. An assassin, a killer, yes, but because it's what he does and does well, not because he likes to kill. And the killer with more heart was a lovely prelude to the too human god we know. ICE gave Dorin a great voice, a fun sense of irony and humour and pride, and damn some great great action scenes.
...and when he was bouncing him off of Wu, there was this great vibe. I got a terrific Fafner n Grey Mouser feeling from these two and it was such a pleasure to read, and even moreso when Dassem was worked into the mix.
I bought Dorin and Wu as the duo who will become Kellanved and Dancer and eventually Shadowthrone and Cotillion on pretty much every level, and it made for fun, engrossing reading.

SILK: I recognized Silk of course from RCG, but again ICE gave us an earlier version of a character that logically fit as the precursor to the ne we already knew. I enjoyed these segments, which probably tied closest to RCG of any in the book in a fun way. I've read RCG twice, Silk's storyline made me want to reread it again.
His interactions with the other mages were interesting, and I enjoyed his foray into Kurald Thyrllan.


IKO: ah, Shimmer... One of my favorite characters from RCG and least favorite from every other book she appeared in. Here she was more of the former,less of the latter. Her storyline was perhaps the least Malazan of the book, and more the common soldier we've come to expect at least one of in each ICE book, but done well, not at all X tra-philosophical, and for a character who spent most of her storyline waiting for something to happen, surprisingly engaging.

NIGHCHILL: see below.

Now then...

BEST CAMEO APPEARANCE: so many to choose from! Baudin, Malle of Gris, a whole pile of Crimson Guard... Still, I'll give this to Kazz Davore for showing up briefly and leaving an impression.

MALAZAN MOMENT WITH THE MOSTEST: Nightchill. What a frikkin treat to finally get a perspective storyline from this character. She didn't do much but observe, but it was always so loaded wth innuendo to bigger and uglier things going on. And I really got a kick out f the way she and Dorin kept meeting on rooftops watching other events.

BEST THROWDOWN: There were some solid action pieces in this book... but Dorin's fight against the other Faruj student... That was just awesome.

BEST NEW CHARACTER: allowing for the fact that most of the characters event actually new, just different, I'll give this to Ullala. ICE hit a nice balance between naive victim and vengeful natural talent who happens to have a pet Roc. I enjoyed everything about this character.

AND THE TALENT COMPETITION WINNER IS...: speaking of natural talents, how perfect was it for Wu to build a small army of natural talent child thieves and then proceeded to try and take over Li Heng with them. I laughed more than once at this. Virtually everything Wu did resonated with everything we know and love about Shadowthrone.


BEST MORE GIVE ME MORE!: How Ryllandaras goes from coherent soletaken manbeast to ravening kill machine AND d'ivers... Oh yeah, I want that story. I want it bad. And I suspect Ho has something to do with it. A lot of something.

BEST OPENING: Dancer and Kellanved met while trying to rip off a Jaghut. And they end up stealing his monkey.THEY STEAL HIS MONKEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BEST STABBYFESTE: Dorin's second run at the Kanese ruler was a very well written fantasy lit assassin sequence. I read it again as soon as I finished it.



...so, naturally more to come, but those were the big points I wanted to post having Just Finshed It. This was a great addition to Malazanland and I can't wait to read the rest of the trilo.

[Giantblaze]

Kalam&Quick, on 14 March 2016 - 01:38 AM, said:

Giantblaze, on 11 March 2016 - 07:11 PM, said:

I have a feeling in one of the next 2 books they are going to run into Anomander Rake, since he was mentioned in this book and I don't remember what book it was but I remember there was something about how moon spawn almost came in a confrontation with the empire before when Kellanved and Dancer were in charger and that for some reason Moon's Spawn turned away. I think they also said something about how think maybe Kellaved and Dancer snuck into moon's spawn.

Edit: It was in GotM, "Tattersail recalled that the Empire had locked horns with the Moon's mysterious lord once before, in the days of the Emperor. Things had threatened to get ugly, but then Moon's Spawn withdrew from the game." I can't find where anything says people think they snuck into Moon's Spawn, but I remember it somewhere.

Good catch!
i would really like to a confrontation between K&D and Rake. especially with how Rake speaks with shadowthrone in GotM, it seemed like that had met before, but through out the series i could never think of it ever being mentioned until reading this quote.

Would also like to hear more about K&D not only finding the first throne but their trips through the warrens. i mean, most of the warrens are pretty well covered by people/gods/ascendants, and i would to know just which ones they DID manage to sneak into.

KG i can see, being as empty as it is, KT? with all those tiste liosan running around would be interesting. Could they have maybe meddled into the holds too? have they ever encountered Mael in his warren?(though probably not, seeing as his is an ocean) what about starved dormlain? would be interesting to get atleast a quick bit about some of the less touched upon warrens too. ones that both main series haven't travelled into much.
i mean. we've seen lots of KG, and lots of KE, we've had plenty of pages of the imperial warren,and on hoods warren(or atleast the gate for it) etc. but what about warrens like denial/driss/serc/Aral Gamelain or some of the elders like OP. would love to see K&D running into a few more jaghuts.

Some reason I completely forgot about the imperial warren. We have seen lots of of but we are mostly likely going to see more of it. I mean it is the imperial warren, they are most likely going to find it in one of the next books and set it up as their warren to travel though to get to places.
Edit: Also I wonder if we are going to learn more about the Nameless Ones, because Iskaral Pust talks about how Dancer killed all the Nameless ones and Sorry conformed it, then Mappo said something about how they only killed all the Nameless in the empire.

This post has been edited by Giantblaze: 14 March 2016 - 04:50 AM

[Hocknose]

Abyss, on 14 March 2016 - 04:27 AM, said:

BEST MORE GIVE ME MORE!: How Ryllandaras goes from coherent soletaken manbeast to ravening kill machine AND d'ivers... Oh yeah, I want that story. I want it bad. And I suspect Ho has something to do with it. A lot of something.

I was under the impression that he was already D'ivers at this point and the Ryl we see in this is the one part that was separated. There is a line in the book where I think Silk asks why Ho is so interested in Ryl and the answer is something along the likes that they are similar, as Ho being a human d'ivers who has seperated one of his forms and Ryl doing the same thing...

I may be wrong...

[Andorion]

Did anybody notice the solitary Nah'ruk in Emurlahn? Wonder what that was about.

[Aptorian]

I was wondering about that as well. From the way it was described I actually didn't connect it with Nahruk. Rather I imagine it was just a random unknown species/creature that hasn't been encountered in the series before. As we know, there are other worlds outside the planet and warrens we know.

On the other hand if it was a Nahruk it would go further towards "humanizing" the creatures. Up until now all we've seen of them is big lizard killing machines. The idea of a cowardly, scavenging, perhaps archeologically interested lizard gives the race depth.