[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

Trull said:

Spoiler

"omfg he lost a hand and doesnt even care...What a freak!"

How about a spoiler tag? :folken:

[Optimus Prime]

@Trull's son, you gotta put shit in spoilers dude!

Not everyone hear is fully through book 11.

[acesn8s]

Raymond Luxury Yacht;303747 said:

How about a spoiler tag? :folken:

Good point, but . . . you had to know that it was coming. Al'Thor, son of Thor. Fenris Wolf bit off Tyr's hand.

[Slum]

Hmmm....I'm wondering what good it does to spoilerize Trull's Son's post, when the offending sentence is quoted and un-spoilered a couple posts down...

Is it bad that I had already forgotten about that part of KoD? There's SO MUCH I've forgotten about these books, it's almost a lost cause at this point. Another two years for the final installment? I think I need a Cliff's notes of 1-11 before reading that.

[Pallol One Eye]

I'm Not doing a complete reread prior to the last one.

Strangely enough I remember events from the first 5 much more clearly than the last few. Which have to a certain extent become a blur. Though that may just be senility setting in. I definitely need a refresher so I'm heading over to the link below to read the chapter summaries before AMOL is published.

http://www.tarvalon.net/library/index.php?...apter_Summaries

[Cause]

Its easier to remeber the event of the first five because the characters set down paths with goals in mind and actually accomplished task.

Spoiler

Rand set out to to get callandor, he gets the Aiel to make him their chief. etc etc

Near the end of the series entire books go by at the worst or else entire arcs of the books in which nothing of consequence happens. Random Aes sedai whose name you have forgoten when you turn the page has just had a stunning insight. Blue dresses dont go well with yellow shawls.

[Pallol One Eye]

Sad, but true.

[Trull's son]

I'm sorry about my spoiler! i didn't even realize it at the time. If i could take it back I would...surprise?? hell, if anyone can make it through the 11 books, they deserve some kind of applause. I'm guessing that at that point, yous also started forgetting the names of the unimportant Aile and Aes Sedai. My approach to the end of the series was to just keep going, and found the main characters' chapters a welcome relief through the 900 page books (100 of which is the prologue, and another 75 the glossary)

[Optimus Prime]

RJ was just given too much freedom after the mega success of his first 6 or 7 books. He couldn't keep all the plots going and then just kinda trudged through the last few. Book 10 was just bad.

WoT has great ideas and great moments, but it's sad that sometimes the series' greatest weaknesses are the most memorable.

[Mushroom]

Save the rainforests and abandon your reading of Wot...

RJ's death was an act of vengence by mother nature.

[Optimus Prime]

Ouch.

I'm really doubting Sanderson can finish WoT in any way that will satisfy me. I think his MiSTBORN books are decent enough, but not mind blowing or stand out IMO.

Here's hoping for the best though.

[Aptorian]

Aptorian;282226 said:

So I begun the series and I finished the Eye of the World today.

I was positively surprised in that there's a lot of fresh ideas and coolness in the book, even though it's nearly 20 years old. That said, the story just goes on and on and on, like in the 90's all readers wanted to hear about was a couple of kids running from one village to the next with the boogeyman on their heels.

Far too much time was wasted on the trip from Two Rivers to Caemlyn in my opinion and nearly none was afforded to the trip to the Blight and the solution to the rising shadow.

When the final confrontation finally takes place you don't even get a proper explanation. The light just takes control and vaguely described things take place.

I think this book may have one of the weakest endings I've ever experienced.


The world building and the idea of Dark and Light fighting was awesome though. I've been reading so much modern fantasy lately that it was sort of nice to return to a setting where you have two sides, good and evil.

The dark side is great. I was actually thrilled when I found out that instead of reading about Orcs, the Trollocs were beast creatures - all black and flesheating, sweet. And the officers, the fades, cool aswell. Sort of like a dreadlord or something.

The light, the good side, is for once not a bunch of pussies that couldn't fight their way out of a paperbag. The Aes Sedai and the White Cloaks sound formidable. However, I still don't understand how the white cloaks are supposed to be a threat to the Aes Sedai, they don't have their own mages.

The characters, allthough it reads like the lord of the rings, are funny and interesting. I thought any general character development in Mat and Perrin was lacking. It would have been nice to have a PoV from them both after they turned "wolf-man" and "dark-tainted".

All in all, it was a good read, I've got three more on the bookshelf. Here's to the Dragon Reborn.

I haven't posted here much after I finished the first book, in an attempt avoid all the spoilers.

I just finished the Dragon Reborn and it's certainly the best of the three so far. That said, I'm not very impressed with Jordans storytelling and structure at all.

All the books seem to work after the same recipe. Long introduction, everyone we've heard of in the last couple of books needs to be reintroduced, then endless pages of travel from point A to B, brief pause, nothing that special really happening, then travel from point B to C. Finally a rushed ending to the books taking about 50 pages out of the 6-700 it took to get to point C.

The characters are downright STUPID! At least the few we get POVs from. They're not able to draw conclusions, puzzle out mysteries and they seem to OBSESS on everything they don't know and everyone around them. It's like being inside Rainmans head when ever you have a Perrin POV.

I don't like my axe, I don't want to be a wolf, I want to be a wolf, I don't understand anything, I hate Fail/Falcon, I smell meat, I love Fail/Falcon, Where is Rand? I am afraid of Rand, I don't like my axe, I don't want to be a wolf, I want to be a wolf, look a woman, oooh they are scary, I don't understand anything, I hate Fail/Falcon, I love Fail/Falcon, why don't I understand women, Where is Rand? I am afraid of Rand, bla bla bla.

And the lack of Rand POVs was just weird. If he wanted to give more attention to Perrin and Mat he should had done so in The Great Hunt, not the Dragon Reborn. All the awesome was happening around Rand, him being chased Myrdral and darkfriends and what ever. The Wheels threads going nuts. Him developing all kinds of nifty new abilities like flame swords and a liking for chopping of peoples head. Then again, if had been forced to suffer through 300 pages of Rand POVs where he does nothing but whine about his emminent insanity I would have cried.

Jordan uses too much time staging things, sort of like an Eriksonian convergence, but so, sooo little happens in between the beginning and that final convergence.We could have had an epic Whitecloak vs Seachan battle in the end of The Hunt, we could have had much more info and cool POVs from Padain Fain, we could have had more detailed pictures of the wars going on in Dragon Reborn, we could have done without 200 pages worth of seatravel, etc.

I've finished the Dragon Reborn yesterday and today I'm about forty pages into The Darkness That Came Before by R. Scott Bakker. It's a completely different level of awesome to read this.

Reading the Wheel of Time has only made me confident that I could write my own fantasy novel. Abundantly so.

[Mushroom]

My name is Mushroom and I approve of the Aptorians Above Post.

You have just finished the Dragon Reborn, it was probably the best in the series..

[Optimus Prime]

Yes, Bakker is awesome IMO.

RJ was better before I read Martin and SE, obviously. I will say this Apt. I found Books 4-6 to be AWESOME in the series.

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

Jordan is about on the same level as Eddings for me at this point, only without the nostalgia, as i loved Eddings as a child but just read Jordan fairly recently. I probably would have liked him a lot when i was about 11. At this point, I have to force myself through a book by either of them. Still haven't read book 11. Actually, can't even find it. I think that after finishing book ten, my subconscious made me sleepwalk and throw it away in my sleep.

[Aptorian]

Aptorian;282313 said:

It's funny but now that I think about it, there a lot of similarities to the sword of truth in this first novel.

Blood of the fold/Imperial Army = White Cloaks and to an extend Red Ajah

Useless peasant/forest man becomes Seeker = Everyone becomes something else - Dragon, Wolf, Shadow guy, Aes Sedai chicks.

There a great big dark evil, The Keeper but no real opposition = Ba'alzamon who's afraid of swords of light.

Everyone knows more than the main characters and of course nobody wants to share this info.

More similarities:

Black Ajah = Sisters of the Dark
The Seanchan Collars = The sisters wizard collars
The Ail = Those tribal people in the wastes between The Old and the New World
Saidin/Saidar = Additive and Subtractive

[Terez]

WoT is awesome. I loved every book, and I've read them all at least 10 times...and you guys' comments on the weaknesses of the series are amusing to me, because many of them are similar to weaknesses in Malazan. I don't find the women in WoT to be very similar at all, either...at least, no more than real women are similar...nor do I find them perpetually annoying. Only occasionally...and most real people are annoying occasionally, so that's all good.

[Terez]

Missed this one:

Aptorian;330863 said:

More similarities:

Black Ajah = Sisters of the Dark
The Seanchan Collars = The sisters wizard collars
The Ail = Those tribal people in the wastes between The Old and the New World
Saidin/Saidar = Additive and Subtractive

The similarities between WoT and SoT have been known for a long time. Someone asked RJ about it, and he said to check the publication dates. Someone asked Goodkind about it, and he said that if you see similarities between SoT and WoT, that you're probably not old enough to read his books. No lie.

Also, the opinion that the Aiel were stolen from the Fremen is annoying, because both were based off of real world cultures. All of RJ's cultures were based off of real world cultures - it's a mix-and-match thing (in other words, each culture is influenced by several real world cultures, the same way Mat and Rand both have Odin characteristics, etc.)

Apt, The Shadow Rising was my favorite of the series. Lord of Chaos comes close, and The Fires of Heaven is not far behind.
http://cgi1.usatoday...003/tscript.htm

Edited to add this crazy quote:

Terry Goodkind said:

Haddonfield, NJ: Second Question - I've noticed similarities between your Sword of Truth series and Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series...(Black Sisterhood vs. Black Ajah; The Order vs. The Seanchan; Richard vs. Rand both discovering their powers, both have Nameless evil Gods...etc.) I've often voiced my suspicion that these two series might be occurring on the same world...how crazy am I?

Terry Goodkind: If you notice a similarity, then you probably aren't old enough to read my books.

And from RJ's blog:

Robert Jordan said:

For Richard Scholten, I have never discussed anything whatsoever with Terry Goodkind. I suggest that you check the publication dates of his books and mine. Of course, he says he has never read me, or so I’m told, and I would never contradict a statement like that. Just check out the pub dates on his books, and the pub dates on mine, those that contain the similarities you speak of.

[Aptorian]

Dead god. I've heard of him making these comments but I'd never read the article before. I've always thought he was a terrible writer but now I realise he's also a terrible person.

I wonder if he was having a bad day when he wrote that...

[Terez]

Nope, there are other interviews that go on in a similar vein, and he's even repeated that crap about not writing fantasy.

Tairy said:

Orem Utah: What do you think distinguishes your books from all of the other fantasy books out there, and why should readers choose to read your series?

Terry Goodkind: There are several things. First of all, I don't write fantasy. I write stories that have important human themes. They have elements of romance, history, adventure, mystery and philosophy. Most fantasy is one-dimensional. It's either about magic or a world-building. I don't do either.

And in most fantasy magic is a mystical element. In my books fantasy is a metaphysical reality that behaves according to its own laws of identity.

Because most fantasy is about world-building and magic, a lot of it is plotless and has no story. My primary interest is in telling stories that are fun to read and make people think. That puts my books in a genre all their own.

So I guess readers who are interested in story rather than world-building and details of magic would have a good time reading my books.

Amazing, eh?