[Abyss]

I dunno, it's hardly a shock that Nyneave finally succeeded in yanking her own braid out of her head.

- Abyss, was expecting more pathos...

[HoosierDaddy]

Too hungover to be evil at this point.

[Terez]

Well, I've been so busy I can barely keep up with Theoryland, so I haven't been trawling the various sites. Besides, why would I do that when we have Emma to do it for us?

[Terez]

Chapter titles are posted here:

http://www.theorylan...read.php?t=2397

[HoosierDaddy]

Terez, on 21 October 2009 - 12:38 AM, said:

Chapter titles are posted here:

http://www.theorylan...read.php?t=2397

I'm intrigued by Chapter 36.

[Terez]

Yeah.

Spoiler

It sends you for a loop eh? But only for a few seconds, since we know she won't die (RJ was planning on writing outrigger novels ten years in the future, featuring Mat and Tuon). My second thought, on the tail of the loop, was that she would fake her death - she's done it before. Then my third thought came and won over that idea - it's probably just that she will get a new name when she is crowned Empress (we already know that is the case, and no one will be able to use the name).

[Therion]

Any recommendations where one can get the international edition in the US (other than ordering from the UK and waiting...)? The US cover is plain horrible (IMHO), but I like the international one... goes great with my international KoD hardcover as well.

(Sigh... wouldn't have been a problem a few months ago... it's the little things about moving to the US that screw up your day ).

[Terez]

Will be hard, Therion. I only see them at used book shops.

I have read half the book. Should finish it tomorrow.

<--can't help bragging, hopes that Tor people aren't spying these threads and trying to hunt down the person that let me read in store!

If you want spoilers (major ones in spoiler tags, minor ones written free), you can go here. There are spoilers at other sites, but I think mine are better - less likely to ruin the book, more interesting details in the areas of things that aren't huge shockers.

[cerveza_fiesta]

Just got through the part in book 6 where sammael goes and visits grendal in her den of sexy evil mind control.

I am liking this book a whole lot. Even the parts with Nynaeve and Elayne's boring adventures are pretty good. Elayne is making terangreals and all the bitchy aes sedai outcasts are in on the tel aran riod snoop fest.

Mainly liking how this book is delivering a much heavier dose of political intrigue, describing the complex plays for power between the forsaken and all the rest. Just cool. It isn't just "the big bad" against the "one good guy" anymore. The baddies are all fighting each other, the "good guys" are fighting seanchans (soon I hope), children of the light, nations under control of forsaken.

Its taking on more of a flavour of A song of Ice and Fire, where there is less distinction between good and bad, and its more about factions vying for power.

[Terez]

Yeah, that distinction between good and bad remains at its core - Rand and all his buddies - but even our core good guys have serious issues, and Rand is at the top of the list of people with issues IMO. But it's not black and white by any means - even now with book 12 coming out, we know so few Darkfriends by name, but know there are at least 10x more than the ones we know, probably more. Even the non-Dark ones have secret plans, secret motivations - and these are not just hints of secrets, but real mysteries with meat behind them. As the series goes on, the most amazing thing is how many of the mysteries tie back to book 1. There are a few mysteries that end up being duds, but far more that go somewhere interesting.

The political intrigue is what is laid on thick over the next several books, more so than action (not that action is absent by any means - it's just not so prevalent).

Sounds like you just read chapter 6 - last time you posted, you were on chapter 5 (the first Mat chapter, which you mentioned). So, you're reading slow!

[Skywalker]

@Terez - are you done reading TGS by now? What'd you think as a die hard fan? Very curious to get your review, if you please...

Also, your spoiler post on Theoryland - could you post it in this thread too (in spoiler tags of course)? I can't access Theoryland - is blocked by evil work overlords. Thanks!

[Terez]

No, I haven't finished it. My body decided it needed sleep more than book yesterday, alas. I'll copy over the spoilers though - I avoided some spoilers altogether, but if you want them, PM me. I can also PM you some other spoilers I've heard through the grapevine (which I have mostly been avoiding - just have gotten trickles through Theoryland).

Spoiler

I'm going to be gratuitous, and share what happened through chapter 12in a vague-ish sort of way, for the spoiler whores, and a bit aboutafter cause I skimmed the next few chapters for points of view. I'm even going to put the only major spoiler I give in spoiler tags sothere's that extra assistance to resist. There are a few major spoilers I'm going to avoid revealing at all, and just give hints about, cause Ican't do that to people. And I will share even less about the rest if I get to finish it, probably - I got to that midpoint book where things start to get a little crazy. Not going to ruin that for anyone. But I took notes! (And after a while I started putting a lot of ! in my notes!)

Chapter 3: The Ways of Honor (Aviendha's pov, 11 pages). Aviendha is in Arad Doman, and it is reminiscent of Myrelle with Nynaeve, before theyfound out about Lan, but the Wise Ones are trickier. I was right about the Aiel bit, but not about it being a continuation of Egwene. There isa parallel drawn there, though.

Chapter 4: Nightfall (Gawyn pov, 5 pages). Gawyn asks a few important questions, of himself, and of other people. He's still operating out ofDorlan, the cheese village.

Chapter 5: A Tale of Blood (Rand/Cadsuane 15 pages). Not going to saymuch here. I noted that Rand doesn't bother to differentiate LewsTherin's memories at a much faster pace than ever before. It'sreminiscent of chapter 2 of Rhuidean, sort of, when the memories firststart flying, and they all freak Rand out individually. Here, he freaksout once, and iirc, just doesn't bother to think to himself thatthey're Lews Therin's memories several times. The one that he didfigure out, he thought about it three times in a row before he realizedit was Lews Therin's memory, an when he realized it, it did still freakhim out in the same sort of way that it always has. He's getting usedto it, so the memories are starting to really be a part of him, andit's a tight struggle. Also, he wondered why he hadn't seen the shortdark woman with Mat recently - that gives a strong clue as to exactlyhow often he thinks of Mat and sees him! - but that tidbit is awfullystrange to me, because Rand saw Tuon, via Semirhage's Mirror of Mists. Maybe I need to read it better.

Cadsuane - listens as Merise questions Semirhage. Other people arethere. Cadsuane is frustrated with the questioning situation.

Chapter 6: When Iron Melts (Ituralde 4 pages, Leane 3 pages, Egwene 2pages). Ituralde questions a Seanchan general, and the generalquestions him. Leane experiences a scary bubble of evil. Egwene andvarious other bits of the Tower experience another one.

Chapter 7: The Plan of Arad Doman (Nynaeve, 15 pages). Daigian isteaching Nynaeve the weaves for the Aes Sedai testing, ostensibly notbecause they expect Nynaeve to take the test any time soon, but ratherbecause Daigian mourns Eben and needs something to take her mind offit. Along the same lines of Egwene questioning these things with therebels, Nynaeve questions the issue of deference according to strengthin the Power. It's good writing. Daigian is the weakest Aes Sedai aliveI think (have to double check on that, but I'm pretty sure it's beenmentioned before, and she spent longer as novice and Accepted thananyone also). Then most of Nynaeve's pov is her sitting in on Rand'smeeting with Bashere and the Aiel chiefs.

Chapter 8: Clean Shirts (Siuan, 19 pages). Few tidbits. Siuan meetswith Lelaine, and then with Bryne, and then with Egwene in Tel'aran'rhiod. Siuan apparently wasn't entirely sure whether Delana or Halima was the woman channeling saidin,but she figured it was Halima since she'd known Delana forever. Seemsstrange, since there were so many clues that you'd think with thatinformation that Siuan could have puzzled that much out moreconfidently than she showed. Lelaine is a tease, but Siuan mentionsthat Romanda has been seen talking with Marelandra, a distant Trakandcousin.

Chapter 9: Leaving Malden (Perrin, 13 pages). Two small tidbits. Perrinplans to return most people to the Two Rivers as soon as Grady andNeald are rested. However, he talked to Tam, and Tam says he thinkshe'll stay with Perrin. He says he thinks most of the Two Rivers menwill want to stay. It's not really said outright, but I still have thesame 'the storm is coming' feel, really in all these chapters (it'sexpressed in various ways in each), but I think especially in this one.

Chapter 10: The Last of the Tabac (Ituralde, 12 pages). Going to avoidone spoiler in this that takes up most of the pov. But of course, thelast of Ituralde's tabac was the last bit of Two Rivers leaf that hehas been saving for last because it is awesome. And he's hanging out ina stedding!

Chapter 11: The Death of Adrin (Aviendha, 9 pages). Turns out it's one of Bashere's men.

Chapter 12: Unexpected Encounters (Egwene, 22 pages). This is the lastchapter I had time to read in full. And wow. Going to give one goodspoiler here, cause this is the kind of thing the theory junkies crave.

Spoiler:
And it's also one thing that I seem to be right about, based on thischapter and also on my skimming through the rest of the book, so it'sthe only thing I'm really insanely itching to tell. If I could put itin double spoiler tags, I would, but come on...it's one of those thingsthat at least 90-something Theorylanders knew was coming eventually,and we're a small bunch. Plenty of folks on other websites knew as well.

This is one month after chapter 8, the last time Egwene met with Siuan.Which was quite odd, because there are so many things picking up rightwhere they left off, and then all of a sudden a month is gone. AndEgwene has been doing her thing for a month - lots of progress!

She has a lesson with Bennae, the one she clued in to the 13thdepository the last time, and advised to ask her Ajah leaders aboutthose secrets Egwene revealed. This is a strange visit, because Bennaeapparently followed that advice. She speaks to Egwene very much ashesitant daughter to Mother. And that's just the beginning!

Egwene meets with Suana, and Suana tries to talk her into becomingYellow! And Egwene does the whole 'Amyrlin has no Ajah' thing, butSuana isn't having that. Egwene is impressed that she has impressed aSitter (!) and has no idea that she's an Ajah head as well! She had noidea about Adelorna in Knife of Dreams either, or Cadsuane, whomAdelorna compared her to! So it's all starting to clink intoplace...and still just getting started for this chapter!

Next it's Meidani, who has taken all this time since chapter 2 to callher! Egwene asks those tough questions I've been saying she would beasking (since before chapter 2 even). She's not one to pussy-footaround the situation, and she cut straight to the heart with Meidani,asking why she hadn't fled the Tower, convincing her that she wasAmyrlin, back and forth, figuring out in less than a minute that it hadsomething to do with the Oaths. So Meidani found a way around her Oath, with Egwene's help. She couldn't tell Egwene, but she could show her...

So, bam. Down to the basement, Saerin, Yukiri, Seaine, and Doesine, allat once. They didn't have the rod on hand, but Egwene made it clearthat she was rather disappointed that they did not. She bullied themjust like she bullies everyone else, and she got them to tell her thatthey'd caught a Sitter - Talene - and managed to convince them thatthey'd raised Elaida illegally, and even managed to threaten them withthe law for the fourth Oath they'd made the rebels swear!

So, that's enough for this chapter, except to mention a thing I glossedover for chapter 8 (a month before, when Siuan met Egwene in Tel'aran'rhiod).Lelaine asks Siuan how the negotiations are going, and Siuan says theyare not going well, and thinks about the fact that Elaida's 'agents'(she wonders why Elaida is allowing it, because she has no idea thatElaida has forbidden it and no one is obeying her orders) will not backdown on Elaida's conditions, and get frustrated every time thereinstatement of the Blue Ajah is brought up. She doesn't realize thatthey are frustrated because of Elaida, not because of the rebels'reasonable demands. She doesn't know that the Ajah Heads, who arebehind both sides of the negotiations in a strange as-yet-undeterminedway, are testing Egwene in the Tower. In chapter 16 (which I onlyskimmed), this is still the case - Egwene meets with Ferane and someother Whites. Again, she only knows Ferane is a Sitter, and not an AjahHead, but Ferane does her best to coax Egwene toward the White. Egwenealso thinks that Bennae had done the same thing, tried to recruit herinto the Brown. Apparently she gives them all the 'no Ajah' line, butthere has been a theme of her thinking of herself as a Green, soperhaps that's what we'll see in the Adelorna point of view later on.

Also, I skimmed through 'Sealed to the Flame' and 'The Tower Stands' tosee if there was any indication of a Seanchan attack, and I didn't seeany. Can't guarantee it, but I was in a hurry so I couldn't pay muchattention. However, I'd bet that in 'Sealed to the Flame', Seainerealizes that she can (and should) tell Egwene Elaida's exact orders,because after all, she is the Amyrlin. And that is where the bit aboutAlviarin will come in.

/end major spoilers

I only skimmed these chapters for points of view. Something caught myeye in chapters 16, 22 and 23. But I am NOT GOING THERE FOR 22 AND 23.You will want to just read this.

Chapter: 13 - An Offer and a Departure (Gawyn, 15 pages)

Chapter: 14 - A Box Opens (Cadsuane, 7 pages)

Chapter: 15 - A Place to Begin (Rand 5 pages, Min 9 pages)

Chapter: 16 - In the White Tower (Egwene, 25 pages)

Chapter: 17 - Questions of Control (Cadsuane 5 pages, Perrin 5 pages)

Chapter: 18 - A Message in Haste (Siuan 9 pages)

Chapter: 19 - Gambits (Tuon 17 pages)

Chapter: 20 - On a Broken Road (Mat, 13 pages)

Chapter: 21 - Embers and Ash (Perrin/Faile/Perrin, 13 pages)

Chapter: 22 - The Last That Could Be Done (NOT TELLING YOU)

Chapter: 23 - A Warp in the Air (NOT TELLING YOU)

I'm enjoying BS's writing so far. A couple of things I thought were weak, but overall, he did a really good job, and it's not as if RJ didn't have weak moments as well. It's very satisfying plot-wise.

This post has been edited by Terez: 23 October 2009 - 10:32 AM

[Abyss]

Am officially tempted now.

- Abyss, falling off the fence.

[Werthead]

HoosierDaddy, on 20 October 2009 - 05:32 PM, said:

I'm guessing it has something to do with

Spoiler

Matt, Thom, and Moraine

But that's just an unbelievably likely... guess.

No.

I won't spoil what does happen in the book but I will say what doesn't:

Spoiler

As Sanderson said previously, when The Gathering Storm and Towers of Midnight, which were supposed to be one book, had to be split in two, he and Harriet decided to focus on Rand and Egwene (and, oddly, Gawyn and Ituralde, who apparently have a fair amount of screen time as well) in the first book and leave the others until later. Perrin and Mat are in TGS, but not for very long. Elayne isn't in TGS at all. Their stories will all be front and centre in ToM, as will Taim and the Black Tower storyline. The Black Tower and the Tower of Ghenjei are the 'Towers of Midnight' in the title.

So that means no Moiraine or rescue mission in TGS, and nothing to do with Elayne, Caemlyn, Taim or the Asha'man either.

One character I do know returns after a major absence, generating much excitement (possibly completely out of proportion to his contribution to the story but what the hell?):

Spoiler

Hurin!

According to consensus, the two characters everyone will be talking about after the book:

Spoiler

Are 1) Verin, whose secrets are spilled and they are major doozies which will make you completely re-evaluate her entire story arc from The Great Hunt onwards in a completely different light

and

2) Egwene. Who goes completely badass at the end of the book. And that's not a combination of words I think people were expecting.

[Abyss]

Werthead, on 23 October 2009 - 03:07 PM, said:

...

One character I do know returns after a major absence, generating much excitement (possibly completely out of proportion to his contribution to the story but what the hell?):

Spoiler

Hurin!

Is it bad that my reaction is

Spoiler

umm... who?

Quote

According to consensus, the two characters everyone will be talking about after the book:

Spoiler

Are 1) Verin, whose secrets are spilled and they are major doozies which will make you completely re-evaluate her entire story arc from The Great Hunt onwards in a completely different light

and

2) Egwene. Who goes completely badass at the end of the book. And that's not a combination of words I think people were expecting.

Fuck. Are those TGS spoilers? Because if they are, I'm in. You got me. I'm buying.

- Abyss, obviously not avoiding spoilers for this one...

[Illuyankas]

Clearly, we finally learn Verin's true identity.

Spoiler

Batman.

[Abyss]

Illuyankas, on 23 October 2009 - 03:41 PM, said:

Clearly, we finally learn Verin's true identity.

Spoiler

Batman.

Don't be an idiot. She's obviously

Spoiler

a cylon

.

- Abyss, never trusted the Taupe Ajah...

[Macros]

That lesbian scene thats been in the offing for 4 books finally hits

[Werthead]

Abyss, on 23 October 2009 - 03:18 PM, said:

Is it bad that my reaction is

Spoiler

umm... who?

That's fair enough. He hasn't been around for a while.

Spoiler

He's the 'sniffer' from Shienar who went with the expedition to find the Horn of Valere in Book 2. At the start of Book 3 he travels with Verin, Egwene, Mat, Nynaeve and Elayne to Tar Valon and then departs, promising to spread word of the Dragon Reborn in the Borderlands. The current fan-favourite theory is that it was his report to King Easar and Lord Agelmar of Shienar that sent the huge Borderland army looking for Rand later in the series.

Quote

Fuck. Are those TGS spoilers? Because if they are, I'm in. You got me. I'm buying.

- Abyss, obviously not avoiding spoilers for this one...

Yes.

Spoiler

And when I say 'badass', I mean, a 'Quick Ben' level of badass.

[Slow Ben]

Cheese and Rice Wert! I was just kinda looking forward to this, now you've got me friggin excited! Thanks alot.


And i loved Hurin, glad he's back.