[MTS]

Cocoreturns;281351 said:

you now, i've been thinking about this recently. The cull of the mouse quarter made stopping the stormriders harder - i think we all agree on that.

HOWEVER (the next is my own speculation) - if the mouse hadn't been culled, there would have been an awful lot more power users around on the night of the Shadow moon who might have contested the entry to the Deadhouse. So, perhaps the cull was actually beneficial to Kel and Dancer's long term plans.

Now, how could they cull the mouse without pissing of Obo and the other heavy hitters that reside on Malaz? Easy, have Lasseen cull them, apparently of her own volition.

as i said, it's all speculation on my part, but i think it fits, and i'll stand by it untill SE or ICE writes something that specifically denies it

is all that NoK territory? cos i havent read that and none of that ive really heard before - except a bit about the Cull in the GotM prologue and various references in BH about the uber and magical Stormriders assaulting the Stormwall in Korel.

and wats the "night of the shadow moon"? never heard that before either...

[VampireGoat]

it is NoK indeed

[Bored]

First post woo

I just reread GotM and Adjunct Lorn thinks many interesting things. She says herself that the whole plan with Darujhistan was to include the deaths of Whiskeyjack and his squad and that if they didn't die they could make a public arrest and execution of Whiskeyjack after taking over Darujhistan. The whole plan of demotion according to Lorn was to break the man but she realized while talking to him that it hadn't worked.

The whole theory of inverted command structure was probably some believable bullshit Laseen fed to Dujek to keep him in line because she knew that Whiskeyjack's death would be one thing he wouldn't accept. When Tays was the standard bearer he probably realized while being together with Whiskeyjack that Laseen's paranoia about him was wrong and that's why he wanted to apologize.

Now Laseen could of probably been keeping Lorn in the dark about all this conspiracy stuff but why would she keep the extension of her will in the dark?

[ch'arlz]

Bored;282777 said:

Now Laseen could of probably been keeping Lorn in the dark about all this conspiracy stuff but why would she keep the extension of her will in the dark?

imho, that's one of the major themes of the whole series.

[Ankol]

My first post ever. Just some thoughts..

The Malazan style of command, with the Fists etc. consulting with captains and sergeants, is discussed on several occasions during the books. Maybe the nobility returning to power (and rank) was foreseen. Kel and company has surely foreseen other events, and this should not come as a surprise... (?).

So, WJ and other strong commanders/people like him, on low to mid level in the command structure, will ensure the High Fists and Fists a chain of command and army that is able to handle incompetent people like Lt Ranal (at least to a certain extent).

People who "lose their mind" seem to be promoted...

[Aptorian]

The problem with that theory is that as recently as the events of Deadhouse Gates, there was a culling of the nobility.

[Raraku]

Although Ankol has a point cause according to some the Cull was late in its execution and by the time it took place the nobility had already made headways into the imperial command structure
It is a moot point cause all the old commanders are either dead or have disappeared

[Tehol Beddict]

Sorry to anyone who got to this before me, but here is what I think happened:

When Kellanved, Dancer and Co. entered the Deadhouse in Malaz City, they were given certain 'powers', namely, extraordinary longevity and vitality. This explains Surly's apparent youth, how Kellanved ruled the Malazan Empire with Dancer for over 100 years, and why Dujek is still an active High Fist. Dujek was still quite young and was only a messenger boy, and therefore I assume wasn't in the Deadhouse much but was in enough to gain some of the attributes. Whiskeyjack, on the other hand, never entered the Deadhouse, in fact, he joined Kellanved's family later on. As I recall, every Azath House has a certain aspect: Deadhouse was, obviously, the House of Death. Tremorlor is the House of Life (the Trell gave it that name), and the Finnest House (the Azath in Darujhistan) is the House of Ice. It is also assumed by me and characters in the books that each Azath House is possibly a gateway into the Deck of Dragons (Deadhouse = High House Death, Tremorlor = High House Life, etc.). Since Kellanved and Dancer ascended in Deadhouse, alot of you might be saying that why aren't they the Lords of High House Death? or why not use the Azath of Shadow? I believe it was stated that High House Shadow was already vacant, so Dancer and Kellanved just ascended there. This is just my opinion, and what I recall from Steven's books. Anyways, that's just my 2 cents... or rather $3.56. Hope this lightens things up a bit. Cheers. :D

[D'rek]

Oh man, there's a part somewhere in the books where a character explains all that using, like, the exact same logic and train of though that Tehol here has just used. The parallels are... eerie.

Anyways, the reason they became Shadow-aspected has also to do with the shadow moon thingamajig, but that's NoK territory so I won't say any more of that here.