[Seed]

Who knows what skills his picked up in his lifetime. His memories may be cheese but certain skills and knowledges seemed to be ingrained.

Upon further reflection, I Have to wonder where icarium got all his technological know how. How much of a hand did Gothos have in his early education? or was it something he picked up. We know the TTT were once a highly civilised if not technological society, at least going by the legends of the barghest and the swords and stuff, how old is he or his mother, would they have lived back inthose times of was it more remembered technology passed down from even older times.

He does seem to know a fair bit about both long and short tails, but then alot of the mages and stuff are in the know about various facts as well so it could come from being well studied as it were. Icarium has beaten around the bush.
I wonder if he picked up N'ruk knowledge first hand or via some other method in his long lifetime. His calendars and devices are fascinating and can't help but wonder how they're made and run.

[Tarr]

Icarium is pretty much the most powerful character in the whole series barring perhaps Traveller and there was a huge war between the jaghut and the Kchain, so at some point in the past he probally sunk a floating fortress woke up and found a smouldering pile of castle and some dead Kchain and a guardian and decided to find out how it works.

Maybe he can't perform magery unless angered or building something since at that point it would be instinct and he wouldn't have to remember how to do it. Sudden thought Icarium's finnest *Drools*

[Sinisdar Toste]

Tarr;273810 said:

Icarium is pretty much the most powerful character in the whole series barring perhaps Traveller

.. narf! what? i hope your joking. traveller is good, but he's no lifestealer

[Aptorian]

People think traveller can beat Icarium because, while sailing past Drift avalii (or something) Iccy notes that the guy (which is Traveller) could kill him. But this is also a Iccy that doesn't know what he himself is capable of.

Cotillion didn't think he could have stopped Iccy, and Cotillion is terrifying.

[Mentalist]

pshaw....

Alll that rage would serve him well if he were to pull the wagon...









....














...





EUREKA!!!1
OMG, THAT'S IT!!!!!!!

ICCY'S DESTINED TO SHATTER DRAGNIPUR WITH HIS RAGE!!!!!

[Venerus]

You know... there's a lot to that, Kud. His obsession with time, with machines that measure out time... I realize there's the whole "memory" aspect of it, but then, there's also the two facts that:

1. His machines resemble K'chain technology so closely

2. The K'chain supposedly created the whole "end of the universe will someday come" thing, tying MD to time and all that, which some have speculated is the chaos in Dragnipur chasing the... well, used-to-be only gate to KE.

I mean, if that's true, Dragnipus is basically the perfect machine for telling time... the ultimate doomsday clock, I suppose. At the very least, Icarium would be fascinated by it.

I bet he'd love it in there. I bet he'd make a machine to calculate the exact moment chaos is supposed to catch up w/the wagon. Then he'd forget where he was and assume Draconus was his BFF. Oh what tragedy, what hubris...



[edit] oh and bonus #3, Rake is pretty nervous about Icarium's machines in GotM...

[Tarr]

Hasn't Icarium already seen dragnipur (obviously not from the inside) when he attended Rake and Brood's barbaque?

Icarium IS the most powerful character we have come across so yeah he could almost certainly shatter dragnipur but if he went RAGE mode to do it wouldn't he smash the wagon as well?

Plus everyone keeps going on about dragnipur being shattered but what they don't seem to realise is we are dealing with SE here (i.e. the man who CREATED shadowthrone) it's not going to be that simple or it's not going to happen that way at all (maybe they replace KG with KE and stick all the souls in the rip *Realise's who he is dealing with* probbaly not that simple).

Also people are putting too much emphasis on the Kchain binding the world to time I think that time started to exist with the coming of light and that story was edur propaganda against the Kchain or that the edur were isolationists until the Kchain invaded their realm and had to be fought off!!!!

P.S DRAGNIPUS???

[Mentalist]

LFMAO.. Tarr, "the propaganda idea" is beautiful, have rep...

I can just see Scabby

"Fellow Tiste Edur!!!
K'chain have ruled that lush, verdant world over there on top of that giant goddess for too long!!! Their oppressive ways must have an end put to them!!!
That is why I have taken it unto myself to spill draconean blood and beging the Sundering of our home. We now have no choice but to go over there, and beat the crap out of the K'Chain, and take over that world they usurped for our own!!! Many will fall, and our beloved KE will be no more, but the world will not forget our sacrifice and surely welcome us as liberators!"

[The Dark Wanderer]

I thought the reason Rake was nervous about what the machine in GotM had called the year? This is still one of my favourite bits of foreshadowing ever!

I got the impression that Dragnipur would be broken on the same forge that made it (see Withal and Rhulad's sword at the end of RG) which means that somehow Draconus needs to get out or someone else does with the knowledge of where Dragnipur was made.

[Tarr]

Would a forge have been used to "create" Dragnipur maybe it was an unaspected weapon turned blackhole so would that work? or what if the sword was created by magery?

By the way does anyone else feel that Rhulad's sword was a cheap imitation of Dragnipur? both do steal dead people's souls.

I'm more interested in this more powerful weapon idea (he says there wasn't one but I think Dragnipur is) What would be more powerful than Dragnipur?

Runs through list...

Gruntle's-NO, Traveller's-got possibilities, Ruin's-No, Chance-NO, Karsa's-doubtful(2 souls V 1,000,000,000), Tool's-NO, Osserc's-Does he have one?, Baudins-NO, The Rope's-NO, Otarnal sword-KG is elder so NO, Brood's-Maybe, Kallor's-NO, Icariums-In his hand's certainly, Toc's-NO, Trull's-Unknown (it's obviously got a lot of significance/power as both Clip and Ruin recognise it imediately). Any others?

[Venerus]

Tarr;274099 said:

Hasn't Icarium already seen dragnipur (obviously not from the inside) when he attended Rake and Brood's barbaque?

Er...what does this refer to? I can't remember, it rings no bells. But still, unless he got a chance to study the sword, it's not 100% clear if he'd understand its deal.

Tarr;274099 said:

Also people are putting too much emphasis on the Kchain binding the world to time I think that time started to exist with the coming of light and that story was edur propaganda against the Kchain or that the edur were isolationists until the Kchain invaded their realm and had to be fought off!!!!

That's... possible, but not very parsimonious with the multiple references to the K'chain being time-aspected in some ways. The tying-MD-to-time thing is also part of a monologue where everything else Fear is saying is accurate (it defies much of the other Edur misinterpretations of their own history etc). It's based on knowledge the Edur women kept alive, and from what we know, it syncs nicely with the truth of their past.

Tarr;274099 said:

P.S DRAGNIPUS???

...

What?

[Tarr]

[QUOTE=Venerus;274072]

I mean, if that's true, DRAGNIPUS is basically the perfect machine for telling time... the ultimate doomsday clock, I suppose. At the very least, Icarium would be fascinated by it.

QUOTE]

Explain (quickly)...

As I said earlier maybe they invaded KE and brought time with them because nobody else has yet blamed them for causing time to exist!!

[Venerus]

Hey, people call Dragnipur all kinds of different things on this forum. In fact, we do that with many character/place names. It's a wholelottafun, really. Besides, mocking Dragnipants, the greatest sword of all time, is thrilling in a fantasy-voyeur kind of way.

Wait, are you asking me to explain what I meant by the statement in general? Or are you offering an explanation? Just in case it's the former... all I meant was that one of the only gates to KG is in Dragnipur, and once the chaos storm catches up with the wagon, that may very well be the end of all things (implied in MoI, anyway). So basically, Dragnipur is counting down the moments until the end of the world. Tik-toc... Icarium loves machines that tell time, etc etc.


Edited out the wrong letter...

[Sinisdar Toste]

yeah like togg and fenderbender, or the crater-faced god.

[Mentalist]

Venerus;274202 said:

Hey, people call Dragnipur all kinds of different things on this forum. In fact, we do that with many character/place names. It's a wholelottafun, really. Besides, mocking Dragnipants, the greatest sword of all time, is thrilling in a fantasy-voyeur kind of way.

Wait, are you asking me to explain what I meant by the statement in general? Or are you offering an explanation? Just in case it's the former... all I meant was that one of the only gates to KE is in Dragnipur, and once the chaos storm catches up with the wagon, that may very well be the end of all things (implied in MoI, anyway). So basically, Dragnipur is counting down the moments until the end of the world. Tik-toc... Icarium loves machines that tell time, etc etc.

nitpick: it's KG, not KE...

[Venerus]

Thank you for catching that, Kud. All those little letters, laughing at me...

[Tarr]

"Little letters, laughing at me..." *Hides head in arms and sobs*

YOU have all gone OFF topic you were meant to be complementing me on my theory that Dragnipur won't shatter, and THEN go off topic on crazy theories of what will happen!!!

*Tries to hide dissapointment*

By the way during Bonehunters cotillion mentions time as being a lost elemental or something between light and dark to Mappo

See there is evidence

[Mentalist]

Yeah, but Cotillion's just theorising--according to him just about anything can be an elemental... I don't buy it.

[Tarr]

It is still a valid arguement against the Kechra causing time to exist and all the other elementals came into existance upon lights birth

[Mentalist]

How so?
If in hte beginning there was only MD, htere's already something. We are told by Drakonus that "Darkness always fought with chaos" so there was already order. Besides, we still have no clue how SD and Eleint fit into this,...
I mean, why can't you have fear without light? Why can't you have love/hate without light?

Untill SE further enlightes us, I refuse to buy these metaphysics...