[Set'alahd Crool]

Thanks to Hetan, and to the authorities who ok'd it again.

I think it is Hood talking to ST and Edgewalker, and the carriage that arrives has to be the one from dragnipur. Maybe.
It could be that Hood is planning on being near when dragnipur is destroyed so he can collect the mortals once trapped within it.

The priest and wealthy lady have me stumped, but I feel I should know who they are. Karnadas is a good option since the whole "I doubt it" thing regarding what his god knows would make sense if said god was Fenner. It would also explain why the priest's soul wasn't claimed by his god.

Karsa's daughters ain't twins. Unless I'm mistaken one is the other's aunt.... Karsa has come home alright, but whether or not the army of Tarthenal is with him I dunno.

I doubt that the stranger in Kruppe's dream is Duiker, since we have no reason to think Duiker has access to those dreams. And Duiker is not a bard.

Somewhat off topic, I'd be very surprised if Icarium doesn't make an appearance in TtH. It seems Spite must have been taking her shipmates to Genebackis all along, and I can't see her taking Mappo somewhere that Icarium isn't likely to turn up eventually.
Someone mentioned that the Tyrant was Seguleh. I doubt that. I got the impression that the Seguleh were the Tyrants army, not his peers.

Anyway, TtH looks set to be a thrilling ride. C'mon and release it already!

[Corum]

Or it could be the carriage use by the Trlygaulle guild. I wonder what Edgewalker are tere to arbitrade. Since he only wander in the edge of Shadow. Could the lady be the mage or the royalties that was sacrificed in that place where Paran went to free the Deragoth.

[Dancer+]

I've had one of the worst nights for a long time. I've suffered so you guys can have the prologue, there's no other explanation.

I think this book will almost certainly see the breaking of Dragnipur, I'm still wondering as to how such as event will occur. It all must revolve around Draconus, and Draconus finding the tools to do so, whether it be Karsa or anyone inside of Dragnipur. The other option is; chaos catching up with the wagon. This will have huge implications for the stability of Darkness. Is Rake actually aware of the Dragnipur's critical situation? If so, and it was absolutely fundamental to his plans, surely he'd be arranging to bring more bodies in, but he seems to be waiting in Coral for something.

The prologue as a whole was reasonably obscure but we have found out some information. The Shadowthrone/Edgewalker/Hood alliance I had already guessed from one person's signature and precedent.

"Ditch clearly got into the sword way after Draconus, but he still knew him"
@Kud: Being a Wizard of Pale heavily gives that away, so he's very new to Dragnipur, and when I say new I mean a couple of years. Ditch himself stated he knew Draconus as Draconus was the one answering his questions when he first got sent in.

There is a reasonably strong case that the newcomer with Kruppe is Duiker.
"this scene paints the history of our kind, as you well know. A night, a hearth, and a tale to spin."
"A wan face, an expression of sorrow and pain."

[Urb]

Zanth13;265850 said:

Bad ass strong Demon (think its the one from GOTM?? any one)

The squeaky voice made me think it was Pearl. The demon Quick Ben unleashed to secure his escape from the rooftops of Darujistan.

EDIT:
THANK YOU HETAN!!

[bubba]

I almost didn't want to read it.....I wanted to savor the moment for a few minutes.

the priest Itkovian?

Thank you powers that be:)

[Quick~]

Thanks so much Hetan for arranging this for us <3

and now

Kruppe has a beard!
Kruppe has a beard!
Kruppe has a beard!
Kruppe has a beard!
Kruppe has a beard!
Kruppe has a beard!

Well with that out of the way, wow! What a chaotic prologue. Lots of interesting stuff and lots of stuff I can't make head nor tail of. I'm very much hoping that was Duiker at the fire to spin his tale from a first person perspective.

Shadowthrone scheming is always of interest, I hope we actually see him get more screentime this book along with Edgewalker and what was presumably Hood.

Being a big Kruppe fan the last line of the prologue obviously has me excited =p

[Urb]

Bubba;265887 said:

the priest Itkovian?

I really like that idea, but...

TtH prologue said:

She regarded him in some surprise. “You were a priest? Then … why are you not with your god?”
The man shrugged. “If I knew the answer to that, the delusion I once possessed -- of enlightenment -- would in truth be mine.”

Itkovian knew about Fener's demise didn't he?

[blackzoid]

I'm wondering about that Teblor dog. When Karsa took over the pack of dogs at the start of House of Chains did he kill or injure the previous main dog? Is it possible that the dog in the prologue is the old one that hates Karsa? Or am I wrong and it was the later pack leader that survived the attack on the human city when Karsa was captured?

Was it speculated before that the original Apsalar was a T'lan Imass? She does say that the maw is colder than Omtose Phellack. Is her choice of words significant I wonder?

About Krull being pacifist, Paran did say in the Bonehunters that he wasn't sure that the Elder Gods were really on their (the good guys) side. Perhaps Krul only took part in the Pannion war, because the warrens (a part of him) themselves were threatened. If the CG leaves the warrens alone, he might well stay neutral in any war? Although he does mention in the prologue that he is a prize after all.

[Ain't_It_Just_]

Zanth13;265821 said:

Man that was delicous.... woohooo!!!!!

First I remember that the people who betrayed Rake at Pale were in fact killed by Baruks men, because he delivered the heads to Rake...now this could be explained that Rake found some of them himself and Baruk got the rest....

I like the idea of that being Karsa's dog... I forgot all about him.... And it would make sence for him to finally leave to find his master (now that karsa could be back in town)

More Jade WTF???

Shadowthrone making more deals... WTF???

Apsalara.... Wow.... didnt think we would actually ever see her....awsome....I lazy bitch though... wonder what roll she will play.... if she ever gets out...

Dragonspur....we should finally get the answer about what happens if choas catches up...Draconus should also be in the book it looks like....

Kruppe.... With a beard?? was it always like that?? Who was that 3rd dude to show up with him... Duiker you think...still crying about frikkin Coltaine....

So Krul will not be part of the war... does that mean Krup will not help or take sides either..mmmm???.... What does it mean that he is the prize...and what story is Kruppe talking about?? Will it be a flash back, or something else??

God this was awsome... Hetan Will you marry me??

When does TTH come out??? I think reading this may have been a mistake... I dont know if I want to wait forever for the book....

FRIKKEN COLTAINE?!111/ONE!

Watch ur mouth, or I'll make you have buttsecks with a KCCM Matron....



Now that I've calmed down somewhat.... frikken Coltaine indeed... let's list who's in it.

*Ditch, wizard of Pale
*Apsalara, Lady of Thieves
*Shadowthrone
*Unknown Priest- Duiker/Karnadas/Heboric/Itkovian?
*Edgewalker
*Pearl? (demon)
*Kruppe (with a b34rd!!!!!!)
*K'rul
*Karsa's daughters
*Wealthy lady- Simtal?

Think that's it....

The wealthy lady could be Simtal. Duno why, just a thought. Or.... uh..... um.

Hawl?

[Urb]

blackzoid;265896 said:

I'm wondering about that Teblor dog. When Karsa took over the pack of dogs at the start of House of Chains did he kill or injure the previous main dog? Is it possible that the dog in the prologue is the old one that hates Karsa? Or am I wrong and it was the later pack leader that survived the attack on the human city when Karsa was captured?

The broken hip and the fact that it was god-touched strongly indicates that it is Karsa's old dog, yes. It also seems to be sensing Karsa himself, whom the Crippled God sent back to his homeland at the end of Reaper's Gale.

[Dancer+]

blackzoid;265896 said:

Was it speculated before that the original Apsalar was a T'lan Imass? She does say that the maw is colder than Omtose Phellack. Is her choice of words significant I wonder?

About Krull being pacifist, Paran did say in the Bonehunters that he wasn't sure that the Elder Gods were really on their (the good guys) side. Perhaps Krul only took part in the Pannion war, because the warrens (a part of him) themselves were threatened. If the CG leaves the warrens alone, he might well stay neutral in any war? Although he does mention in the prologue that he is a prize after all.

We know that the original Apsalar was an Imass, it has been mentioned several times throughout the books.

K'rul may not be able to fight back, it's hard to guess his agenda. It all comes back to the question, how much does Kruppe know of K'rul and his motivations? Kruppe was shocked, but that doesn't really tell us much.

[Quick~]

blackzoid;265896 said:

Was it speculated before that the original Apsalar was a T'lan Imass? She does say that the maw is colder than Omtose Phellack. Is her choice of words significant I wonder?

Its stated directly in BH.

'An Imass? There are no iconic representations of the Mistress - which is odd enough, possibly a prohibition enforced by the temples. What are her symbols? oh yes. Footprints. And a veil' (BH UK Tpb, p.40)

--

the teblor daughters, dog and karsa have me all a bit unsure right now

[Zanth13]

Dancer;265901 said:

We know that the original Apsalar was an Imass, it has been mentioned several times throughout the books.

K'rul may not be able to fight back, it's hard to guess his agenda. It all comes back to the question, how much does Kruppe know of K'rul and his motivations? Kruppe was shocked, but that doesn't really tell us much.

She seemed very spunky for an imass... and we know she is an ascendant/godess....I guess that would make her one of the first Ascendants ever (as far as we know) ... just because she is an ascendant imass

[Jorram]

Hetan, thank you very much for your efforts and generosity to our nagging

My thoguhts on the prologue:

- It's not like the series doesnt abound in hooded figures, however I also believe that the hooded guy from the first scene was Hood. And then yet ANOTHER of Shadowthrone's contracts indeed, which we will never quite understand. Ever.

- I also thought that "my carriage" was Dragnipur, especially with it being the pivot of the next scene. As to whomever the man and the woman might be (and why dogs), I refrain from speculating, seems altogether too misty. Chances are, the man is known to us, there are too many hint-like expressions in his speech.

- I just now realized I still dont get shit with this Hounds business. Let's repeat the course of events:
1) Rake kills two Hounds of Shadow
2) Paran frees them sending them to Kurald Galain
3) Two Hounds of Darkness become suddenly free
4) Karsa kills them
5) Then the rest of the Deragoth are also freed by Paran
6) Now we have five Deragoth and five Hounds of Shadow, with two of the Hounds of Shadow being dead and possibly transferred to the two Deragoth, that are also killed.

At least this is my understanding of it. But it seems odd and quite illogical, I mean the conclusion in (6). I can't exactly say why.

- I don't think the CG sent Karsa to the Teblor. I think Karsa travelled there on his own.

- Can someone remind me why did Draconus believe that Dragnipur must actually be destoryed, back in MOI?

- About the last scene, two things strike me as odd. The words used to describe the final newcomer are a set of those used to describe Edgewalker - gaunt and grey-haired. However, the other things don't match, I doubt Edgewalker would even have what passes for "an expression", let alone it being wan (it just doesn't suit him). For some reason, I thought Kallor, who was also described as gaunt and grey-haired (I think), but that wouldnt be very logical either. I don't quite agree with the Duiker theory, though.

- And then, the way Kruppe uses "our kind" - isn't it a bit ambigous? He's standing with (at least) one Elder God right now. Using "our kind" would suggest some sort of sharing between them. Why not use "my kind" (if he refers to humans, which is also semantically hinted at by the rest of the context) instead? In other words, back to the Super-Kruppe theory..

[Dancer+]

Jorram;265904 said:

- And then, the way Kruppe uses "our kind" - isn't it a bit ambigous? He's standing with (at least) one Elder God right now. Using "our kind" would suggest some sort of sharing between them. Why not use "my kind" (if he refers to humans, which is also semantically hinted at by the rest of the context) instead? In other words, back to the Super-Kruppe theory..

Ah, I missed out the grey and gaunt part. A word often used to describe Kallor. We have no real evidence to it not being Kallor, it would be great if it were so. People will argue, K'rul and Kallor would not be able to stand eachother but I think this is entirely wrong.

"Our kind" is ambigious, it doesn't even have to refer to race. It could just be those with power sitting on the edge of the war, always waiting for the right moment.

[Murrin]

About the people in the first part: with the jade rain, them being newly arrived in Hood's Realm, their memories being lost and one with his god missing, I took that as sign they were from among the ghosts from inside the jade statues, that Heboric freed in BH. The ghosts, in Heboric's earlier visions, were not exactly aware of their fate within the statues, so their not knowing how they arrived is understandable. I'm not sure that they will become significant later--they seemed like just a way of showing the meeting between Hood, Shadowthrone and Edgewalker.

[Cougar]

I know we do this everytime, but it's quite reasonable that we don't know the new characters in the first scene, there's no way enough information to say anything reasonable about their identities. It's fun to specualte but SE is likely to throw in a few new characters.

Few people saying that Ditch could be a significant character, although it's just as likely he's a POV tool to enlighten us more about the inside of Dragnipur.

No doubt Apsalara is an Imass in my mind, stealer of fire would make sense as she could have been around when the Imass were discovering fire and also Tellan is a fire warren etc.

I'd assume the guy with K'rul and Kruppe was Duiker just because it's the most obvious step. Surely someone more unusual (Kallor!!? or Edgewalker) would elicit more a response from Kruppe or surrounding individuals.

In the first scene I thought the 3rd figure was Hood because they seem to be in some type of death realm, no other basis for saying it's more likely Hood than K'rul.

I'm very aroused....

[Quick~]

Murrin;265909 said:

About the people in the first part: with the jade rain, them being newly arrived in Hood's Realm, their memories being lost and one with his god missing, I took that as sign they were from among the ghosts from inside the jade statues, that Heboric freed in BH.

I really like that line of thought Murrin, it'd make sense and tie in a few things nicely.

[Lister of Smeg]

Great to have the prologue. Thanks Hetan!

My thoughts:

First scene, my initial thought was that we were seeing Heboric (priest, jade, that's about my only justifications) and Sedara Orr, though why they would be together is beyond me. But Sedara contracted the Trygalle before, we hear a wagon coming closer, and she is from Darujhistan, so there's a chance that it is her.

Ditch didn't know Draconus, he's only heard of him since getting into the sword. The news about Apsal'ara is very interesting. Can't wait to see more from her. I gathered that she tried to steal something from Rake and earned herself Dragnipur. Which is sure to be shattered soon to stop chaos from catching up with the wagon.

The dog with the Teblor is called Gnaw. It shattered a hip when Karsa et al attacked Silver Lake. Last time we saw it, Karsa tried to heal it and left it in a stable with instructions to go home and wait for him. Looks like it did just that. I wonder how Karsa will act when he sees his daughters. He's changed a lot since that raid.

The only person I can think of that matches the description of the guy sitting with K'rul and Kruppe is Kallor, but that can't be right. So my money's also on Duiker.

Finally, judging from that last scene, the major POV in this book is going to be Kruppe as he narrates to the others what happens.

Edit: And it's my birthday tomorrow, so this is a great present! Excellent timing!

[Kalahinen]

'...grey and gaunt...'

Is Kallor back?