[Thelomen Toblerone]

But didnt they make use of Clip's access to MD in RG? Im a little hungover, so apologies if memory is fuzzy, but I seem to recall his ring on a chain being the connection and used to get that merry band of travellers to where they needed to be? Or did it just allow travel by warren (KG)?

I wish I had my copy to hand, not knowing's causing my head to feel confused.

[Mcflury]

as I remember it the rings actually where the gate to KG, so they allowed the travelling through it.

[pastures]

well as i understand the original gate to KG is in Dragnipur. No idea if the rings are a second gate or some other type of gate... but im pretty sure they did end up in KG proper, suggesting the Clip is more than he seems.

[Mentalist]

@ TT: the reason he couldn't use the gate right away, I believe, was b/c there was a price associated with it--once the Bluerose Andii were slaughtered, he was able to do it.

[Zanth13]

kud13;258262 said:

@ TT: the reason he couldn't use the gate right away, I believe, was b/c there was a price associated with it--once the Bluerose Andii were slaughtered, he was able to do it.

you are right... That is hinted at... but we are never told for sure... we get two hints about clip from the death of the blue rose... and were not sure which one is true

One paints him as heartless because he planned and was waiting for the slaughter....

the other makes him less so, one of the character remarks that he stopped when he felt his people get killed, they thought that he thought he felt grief and remorse over his people and that he have been there to protect them instead of on a useless quest

[Abyss]

If i followed correctly, and it WAS confusing, Silch and co needed a gate to get to the Refugim. Because the Refugim was well hidden and attached to Starvald Demelain somehow, they couldn't just stroll in from Leth (even tho QB/Trull/Onrack seemed to do just that via some Imass memory warren and Hedge and the Unbound Imass did it via the Jaghut death/Omtose Phellack thingy warren), so they needed a gate. Gates require power/sacrifice, and i suppose a gate to an elder warren requires even more, especially a warren that's been sealed, so the deaths of the Blue Rose clan were necessary to power the gate.

It DOES seem convaluted, but i trust SE...

- Abyss, notes SE is good, SE is great....

[D'rek]

Do note, Iron Bars and co. traveled KG in MT. Corlo expresses confusion about how it's KG instead of KE, then we get Sandalath, etc, etc. If it was that easy for them, who knows why Clip had to wait for his portal.

The Clip = MD's Herald comes mostly from this part of RG's epilogue:

Quote

"It does not matter what he wants. Nor even what I want! Do you understand? I am her Herald!"

but then further down the page is:

Quote

...he did not lie when he said the Shake were not yet ready. That was, in fact, the only truth he had told, on this darkest of nights.

[Mentalist]

well, humans have had a lot of warren training, whereas for TA, KG is their home, the home they've left behind--so they're unlikely to have used it much. besides, if clip was born in Bluerose, of the nth generation of interbreeding, the skil of accessing KG could have been lost...

[Nequam]

Dancer;258002 said:

Not as classic as you would like. Such staunch opposition as Dolorous Menhir, Aptorian and the mighty Dancer are present among those listed under we dislike the name "Wu". I don't know Brood's, Abyss' and IH's opinion on the matter however.

I know I don't really matter much here, but if anyone would like to know: I too refuse to use Wu as a reference to the planet they live on. Burn isn't exactly my second choice but it at least makes sense (as it has direct reference to the books) and I like it a hell of a lot more than Wu


As for the Mortal Sword thing. I for one was very, very surprised to find out that Mandy has himself a mortal sword. They seem to be popping up out of nowhere later in the series. When we first hear about them in MoI Quick was shocked to here the titles. Saying something about them not being used in thousands of years or at least hundreds, I can't remember. Anyway that gave me the impression that things like a Mortal Sword were old not really in practice anymore. I also, not sure why, but only associated it with certain gods. That would the gods of war, Fener, Trake, Togg and Fanderay...
But now it seems like any god can have a mortal sword.
Not only was I surprised because of those reason but also, as someone else said, I was under the impression that a Mortal Sword gets his/her power from their god. Rake obviously doesn't want to be their god, so how would Clip get power. Of course those were just my first impressions...

[Mentalist]

well, untill we come up with something better and that everyone could agree on (and "burn" is not better, imho), I will continue to use Wu. it's short, concise, and everyone knows what it means by now.
Re the Mortal sword thing--well, they seem to be back in style again, starting with Treach. ofc, the War gods' moprtal Swords, Shield anvils, etc, are usually associated with a "reve". Is there one for Darkness and its wayward sons?

[Ammanas]

Clip is nothing of the sort. The way he got lit up by Trull's spear, who would want him as one, anyway?

Another loony theory has been spawned--he's MD's assassin out to kill Rake cuz Rake holds the sword that prevents MD from migrating to avoid chaos. Clip's purpose is to kill Rake and destroy Dragnipur.

Or, he's lying about "walking the darkness" and turned on MD like the other Andii but was still searching for a god figure to worship and hates Rake for not filling that role. Maybe enough to kill him. The 64K question for me is, does Rake know him or will he recognize him?

[Adjutant Stormy~]

Well Mortal Swords must serve a practical purpose for a god- and perhaps with MD's endorsement, Rake would come back home to get his MS??

But Rake is too distant.

Also- I don't recall the quotation about MD, if anyone with superior quote-fu and a copy on hand plop down the mention of Clip and MD?

[Ammanas]

Since he's soletaken and able to spew raw KG like Godzilla's fire, I tend to forget one important thing about Rake. He's the Seguleh 7th. WTF does he need a mortal sword for anyway?

[Lisheo]

He doesnt. Clip doesnt seem the type to ask permission first lol

[Toblakai]

Aptorian;257855 said:

Clip, who is more than he seems, is a mortal sword of Rake. More precisely he is the mortal sword of the blackwinged lord. What he is up to is anyones guess.

There are a couple of threads on this if you do a thorough search.

There may be a thread on this already, but I've had a thought:

If a sword is a mortal's tool, then perhaps a Mortal Sword is simply the tool of a god(a Divine Champion, if you will). No one said one must use one's tools, hence the possible existence of a Mortal Sword for Rake without his blessing--or knowledge.

To take this further, what is a sword if not a tool of vengeance?

So would it be possible that the reference to Rake(MT, US Trade paperpack edition, p198)--
"the Knight strides down his own doomed path, soon to cross blades with
his own vengeance."
--and his impending battle is simply a foreshadowing of a confrontation between Rake and Clip?

It seems to me to be at least as plausible as the Dassem/Traveller vs Rake theory. Anyone care to respond??

[Mentalist]

It's been brought up as one of the theories

Since Rake refused to be a God, and didn't save the Bluerose, Clip is quit angry with him. He's gonna take his grandkids to him (Nimandr 7 co, see RG epilogue), and something bad amy happen. But since Clip couldn't even beat Trull, the only way he could do any damage is thru lies + trickery...

[Optimus Prime]

I don't buy the Mortal Sword claim because I've always seen that relationship as having to be one that is accepted by both parties...and since Rake pretty much denies his godhood...he can't have a mortal sword....

[Sindriss]

Nequam;258730 said:

I know I don't really matter much here, but if anyone would like to know: I too refuse to use Wu as a reference to the planet they live on. Burn isn't exactly my second choice but it at least makes sense (as it has direct reference to the books) and I like it a hell of a lot more than Wu


As for the Mortal Sword thing. I for one was very, very surprised to find out that Mandy has himself a mortal sword. They seem to be popping up out of nowhere later in the series. When we first hear about them in MoI Quick was shocked to here the titles. Saying something about them not being used in thousands of years or at least hundreds, I can't remember. Anyway that gave me the impression that things like a Mortal Sword were old not really in practice anymore. I also, not sure why, but only associated it with certain gods. That would the gods of war, Fener, Trake, Togg and Fanderay...
But now it seems like any god can have a mortal sword.
Not only was I surprised because of those reason but also, as someone else said, I was under the impression that a Mortal Sword gets his/her power from their god. Rake obviously doesn't want to be their god, so how would Clip get power. Of course those were just my first impressions...

I think it is because that there haven't been a need for those people in a long time. But with the CG kicking everybody in tha nuts the gods need a manifistation of their powers to influence matters as they see fit.

[Sinisdar Toste]

and clip is just a precocious little scamp that is gonna get his butt whupped, unless something unexpected happens.

[Ain't_It_Just_]

Sinisdar Toste;278611 said:

and clip is just a precocious little scamp that is gonna get his butt whupped, unless something unexpected happens.

I hope so. Seriously, if he cheeks Rake when he finds him, all the time, I hope he dies slowly.... Smug little bastard.

And Rake doesn't need a Mortal Sword, he could pretty much fill in the role of TEN MS's.