[Optimus Prime]

Ok, so I know a lot of you guys live in Europe. I have a question for you. Also, others not from Europe of course feel free to chime in.

I work at a hotel.

www.hoteldel.com

This hotel is world famous and is actually the number two place in the world to get married, but I digress.

What is up with people from Europe and their either

A) Unwillingness to tip.
Bad tipping

Now before I worked here I worked at another hotel while in college back in Georgia. It was a Ritz-Carlton. 5 Diamond, 5 Star, blah blah blah.

So do people in the service industry make more by the hour? Is this why supposedly tipping "isn't the same" in Europe? I've got guys that work under me who consistently get stiffed or very little money from Europeans. What gives?

Back when I was a bellman at the Ritz...I noticed the same thing as well. The tip for bringing bags to the room (Sometimes as many as 20+ items) was generally lower than tips I received from Americans. Is this a cultural thing? Or do you guys just hate us?

Help me understand this phenomena that leaves pockets lacking across my country.

[wolf_2099]

They don't tip in Europe, it isn't part of the culture, don't think there is anything more to it. If you go to the middle east, are you going to use your left hand to wipe up with?

There are plenty of times I do not tip, or tip poorly in Canada. Although, that is only if the waitress is bad, and it is her fault.

I also pretty much never tip in bars. Why the hell should I give you a loonie for opening a beer for me?

[Zanth13]

wolf_2099;256636 said:

They don't tip in Europe, it isn't part of the culture, don't think there is anything more to it. If you go to the middle east, are you going to use your left hand to wipe up with?

There are plenty of times I do not tip, or tip poorly in Canada. Although, that is only if the waitress is bad, and it is her fault.

I also pretty much never tip in bars. Why the hell should I give you a loonie for opening a beer for me?

well well MR. PINK


while i was in South Korea, I was eating at a diner on post... the korean waitress gave terrible service that day, and so I didnt tip her... she actually had the audacity to ask for a tip, I cant remember if I ended up giving her two dollars or one of my friends did, but she asked for more....

after that I always got the worse service at the place......Cold food, done wrong always... One time thier was no salt on our table so I asked her for a salt shaker... when she brought it over I thought she was wiping it off... ohh no.. as soon as I went to salt my food the lid came off and doused my poor french fries...damn lady unscrewed the lid....

[Wry]

I always find it funny when people say it's not part of the culture here (i'm Irish and work in hotels).

It is. Most of us will tip.

We just see tips as an extra payment to service staff, a bonus if you will, for good service. It's a way of rewarding good service, and encouraging better. Of course you do still have the cheap old farts who use this as an excuse never to tip, but then thats their right - the price they pay for whatever purchases them the product and what service is offered with the product.

Whereas in the states, i gather, It compulsory no? If i lived there i'd resent that tbh. It's more in the way of "stealth taxing", i.e. a hotelier will advertise a price, use it as a hook to gain your custom, then expect you to cover a large proportion of their wages cost as a supplement to the price of your service/product.

In fact, compulsory tipping to my mind defeats the purpose of the exercise.

That said i'm sure we have a much higher wage in the service industry here (and also a higher cost of livng too, at least in ireland)

(and yes i have seen Pulp fiction )

[Optimus Prime]

Well the guys on my staff are making 8 dollars an hour...and most of them are in school. Without tips...they aren't going to have a life...at all.

My view on tipping is this. In the states, the status quo is supposedly 20%. If the waitress is bad...I still tip something. It would have to be plain out awful to not tip.

Exceptional service means a good tip, it is that easy.

[Aptorian]

Xander;256641 said:

Well the guys on my staff are making 8 dollars an hour...and most of them are in school. Without tips...they aren't going to have a life...at all.

My view on tipping is this. In the states, the status quo is supposedly 20%. If the waitress is bad...I still tip something. It would have to be plain out awful to not tip.

Exceptional service means a good tip, it is that easy.

Well, 8 dollars and hour for a person over 18 is illegal. I think the minimum wage is twice that here in Denmark.

But like wolf says tipping isn't really a part of the culture. I think I've stayed at a hotel once in my life so I have no idea how that works but at places like bars and resturants tipping isn't required. If you're at a resturant you might "add up" the bill so that it fits with a round number but we're not talking 20% no where close.

[Optimus Prime]

Wow.

People where you guys are living must make a lot higher hourly.

Not tipping here is embarrassing. You get back from doing a check-in as a bellman and you get stiffed? Your totally hating hat guy all day and leting people know about it.

[Aptorian]

Well we also pay around 55-65% in taxes and the price of food and gas has been rising steadily of late.

[Optimus Prime]

Oh yeah you live in Denmark.

Our gov't supposedly is passing a "tax relief" rebate for the lower and middle classes.

Tipping is the entire thing that keeps the service industry at even a decent business level. You go to a bar if they have a lot of pretty girls, as an example.

[Thelomen Toblerone]

Actually had this conversation with a yank a couple of days ago at uni, who was amazed at not having to tip in bars and pubs (although he did say it was probably cos if we did tip everytime, we'd all be bankrupt as we're always drinking ).

I disagree with Wry, I think Europeans arent really used to tipping, which is why we dont so much. I mean, you go into a pub in the UK and order a pint, you NEVER tip, it's just never been the way it's done. If you tried to give a tip, theyd just think you were shit at counting and give you it all back s change.

It used to be tipping was strictly optional in restaurants too, but now I find there's a 10% "optional" service charge included in the bill you're expected to pay, regardless of how shit the service is. And they often expect more. It really grates with me that someone can do a shit job, which let's not forget, theyre getting paid to do, automatically get 10% tip, and then expect you to leave a few quid as well.

Generally, the service is piss poor too. The last time I went out for a meal with my gf, despite there only being about 20 people in the place, they managed to mess up her order as well as the orders of the two people at the next table within the space of half an hour, but the 10% tip was still in the bill.

It just generally strikes me as greediness for a job that's not really too hard.

[Morgoth]

yeah, here too.. We generally tip at resturants, but that's it. I've never given tip to a hotel employe, and rarely rarely tip at a pub. This is not because i'm cheap in any way, but because we don't do that sort of thing here.

I'm quite often in the US and I do notice the seeming demand for tip. I do know the sallery is lower over there, but I'd be damned if I'm tipping someone who acts like a bunch of pricks. If one wants money from me, they have to deserve it. If their sallery is low, surely that's a reason for them to work for the extra cash?

[lewy]

When i'm at restaurants and so forth, and the service has actually been... well, proper, I'm all for giving around... 5-10% of the bill for tips.
We Europeans are just so damned dependent at luxury, that unless everything is completely perfect, som of us get... offended, in a fashion, and refuses to tip.

[Urb]

Also, when you're leaving a tip after having a meal in a restaurant (I only tip when dining at a restaurant), you have to tell the waitress/waiter that they should keep the change. Otherwise they'll bring it back to you.

[Astra]

Morgoth;256707 said:

If one wants money from me, they have to deserve it. If their sallery is low, surely that's a reason for them to work for the extra cash?

Could not agree more.

Generally, I leave 5% in restaurants.
I don't leave tips on hotels in the UK or Europe, the prices are too steep anyway.
However, I was leaving generous tips when I stayed in Prague 2 years ago. Both, restaurants and a hotel(well holiday appartments, not a hotel but its service was as if I lived in 5+ hotel). I was leaving tips all over the place in Cuba this Christmas. Because their monthly wages are around £12 (when I say I, in reality it is me and my wife. We were seeking out gardeners and other similar service men in Cuba to give them some tips and give them cans of coca-cola and beer from our fridge (it was replenished everyday for "free" anyway). While waitresses/waiters and cleaners usually always have tips, the other more obscure workers don't have it).

People have to work harder in order to earn extra money. One must understand that people who come to restaraunts or stay in hotel are not neccessary big shots but they might have the same low wages as service personal but if they work in offices or factories for example, they have no tips at all. What does make people working in hotels outstanding?
I worked in hotel for 3 months 10 years ago. In Israel. No tips. Was I angry with customers? No way. They paid huge amount of money to stay in this 5 stars hotel, it is their right to receive an outstanding service.


P.S. I forgot to mention that I have never been to the USA, so I cannot comment on how I would tip over there. Probably I would respect customs of the country. I have heard that in average restaraunts are considerably cheaper in the USA than in Western Europe.

P.P.S. I also tip chaps who bring take away food and sometimes taxi drivers if they are helpful.

[caladanbrood]

Tipping in America and Europe is an entirely different beast. Like you say, a lot of american waiters need tips to actually survive, whereas in europe it's seen purely as a bonus. I know when I worked in a pub, whenever we had americans (which was fairly often, it was half a mile from Stonehenge) they always tipped massively. Americans have to declare their tips in tax returns too, I think - I heard that they get investigated if they don't declare them, because it's assumed that they'll get quite a lot. Whereas while we're supposed to, they don't notice if you don't bother.

I tip if I have enough spare change, and they deserve it, but it should be for exceptional service rather than just service. I don't leave tips at hotels at all, for that matter, just in restaurants.

[Saccian]

At first the only time I tipped was when I ate at a restaurant, but I got odd looks from friends when they learned that I did not tip the cab driver or my hair dresser. Heck, now I find even small fast food joints have a tip jar at their till.

Now I seem to tip almost anyone I come across in the service industry and if I get good service I usually tip quiet well. I just hate the fact that I am a bastard for not leaving a tip because society says thats what I am supposed to do. I remember having a few beers with a cab driver who worked for a resort town, and he went on a tirade at the fact someone only gave him a $5 tip and that he deserves more. I guess he explained his reasonings to his client at the time who I guess reluctantly gave him another $20.

Personally I don't think tips should be expected, but meant as an award for exceptional service. I'm sure thats what it was originally meant to be, but I think we've either gone far from that(at least in North America), or everyone thinks that their service is exceptional.

[caladanbrood]

If someone complained that they deserved a bigger tip, I wouldn't give them any at all!!

[RodeoRanch]

Man, if you don't your waitress at the pub, you are going to fucking hear about it. A few months back we had an absolutely terrible waitress who glacially slow in bringing our beers, mixed up our orders and generally acted like a total bitch. So we left her a tiny tip. As we were leaving, she fucking freaks out and starts throwing coins at us.

Obviously an extreme case but it's considered very poor form to not tip your server. At least in my neck of the woods it is.

[Thelomen Toblerone]

Seriously? If some waitress tried that at me I'd go fucking mental and shout til her ears bled. It's ridiculous that someone can give shit service and expect a tip, I mean, if I do a shit job, I expect to get fired, not to get a bonus! It's like English builders, who generally are slower, more expensive, and more hassle than their new Polish competition, yet get outraged when the work dries up.

All I know is, I may go through periods at work where there's nothing to do, but when there is something, I damn well work hard until it's done to perfection, even to the extent of doing extra. I've spent my lunch hour voluntarily cleaning out a basement full of rats, with air so dirty it literally makes you spit and bogeys black after seconds, and stayed an horu after work mopping up 2 week old piss, and I still dont expect to get re-hired every holidays, despite them needing an employee then.

This society. Grrrr!

[RodeoRanch]

Oh, we took a strip off her after she tossed the coins at us. I, of course, pocketed the coins as the other lads in the party rather loudly commented on pretty much every aspect of her appearance. Whooee, was she mad.

We were than rather forcefully asked to leave the premises. Bitch.