[Optimus Prime]

I missed a lot from HoC and DHG....I need to do some serious re-reading...so I'm sure you aren't the only one.

I like your idea though.

It sounds like whatever Scabby did started the tear...and perhaps these later events finished the job..although...the prologue of Reaper's Gale seems to suggest that when Killy and Rake go into KE...they already know it is doomed.

[Jorram]

Quote

Also, wtf, the first empire created Otataral? How did I miss that the first time!?

They only created Otataral island on 7C.
Otataral itself seems to be more ancient. In HoC Heboric (I think) muses otataral is created upon massive magic usages, like (example is his) the Tellann ritual.
Remebering the prologue to tBH, however, otataral appears even older than the Tellann ritual, because Spite employs it as the carrier of Starvald Demelain's power. Or something to that effect. It's not clear actually whether it was Spite's warren or all the NO's combined warrens that SE referred to as "the force of entropy, known as otataral" in this quote.

[Optimus Prime]

Another question.

Say KE is reborn or fixed...will the Edur still be tied to it? They seem to be decimated....a defeated people...

[Mentalist]

Well, they're kinda homeless.... I'm assuming that once they get their home (KE) back., it'll heal whatever psychological stigma they carry...

[Optimus Prime]

Well there may be some protest of them actually regaining their warren, given what they did (under Rhulad's rule).

[Ain't_It_Just_]

Jorram;248734 said:

They only created Otataral island on 7C.
Otataral itself seems to be more ancient. In HoC Heboric (I think) muses otataral is created upon massive magic usages, like (example is his) the Tellann ritual.
Remebering the prologue to tBH, however, otataral appears even older than the Tellann ritual, because Spite employs it as the carrier of Starvald Demelain's power. Or something to that effect. It's not clear actually whether it was Spite's warren or all the NO's combined warrens that SE referred to as "the force of entropy, known as otataral" in this quote.

Well, of course. Seven Cities IS a colony of the First Empire.

if you ask me, i think Starvald Demelain created otataral.

[Dolorous Menhir]

Ain said:

Well, of course. Seven Cities IS a colony of the First Empire.

if you ask me, i think Starvald Demelain created otataral.

Seven Cities is no First Empire colony. That's like describing the UK as a British colony.

[caladanbrood]

Definitely not a colony of the first empire. It just happens to be broadly in the same place...

Xander said:

Well there may be some protest of them actually regaining their warren, given what they did (under Rhulad's rule).

Protest from who, exactly?

[Optimus Prime]

Others who would want control of the warren....

*Thanks to Brood, for getting me off of 666 post count! He isn't completely without worth*

*reps*

[caladanbrood]

Ah but then they wouldn't be opposing it for the reason they did stuff (and lets be honest, it's a world that has seen it's fair share of atrocities), but rather because they wanted power instead...

[Optimus Prime]

Perhaps, good point jerk-face.

LOL.

I can't see the Edur getting it back....

[caladanbrood]

Aye, with the withdrawal of the CG's patronage, they have nowhere near the power to have a serious fight with anyone over it. I also think at the moment they probably don't even have the desire for it. That will change in time, I imagine - they are still the children of shadow, after all.

[Optimus Prime]

Can any of the Tiste come out of all this with even a shred of hope? Seems doubtful...of course that could be said of all races/characters in the books.

[caladanbrood]

Well, from the little we saw of the Liosan, they at least seemed to be diminished less than the other Tiste races. Probably because they've avoided Wu;)
But the Edur are spent, and the vast majority of the Andii are more like the Bluerose Onyx wizards and Rake's grandchildren than Rake or Ruin.

[Optimus Prime]

Yeah but the Liosan seem primed for a good ole fashioned ass stomping.

And well the Andii are just...well screwed.

[Ain't_It_Just_]

Dolorous Menhir;248754 said:

Seven Cities is no First Empire colony. That's like describing the UK as a British colony.

Ok, wrong word. But Ehrlii script looks a bit like Letherii script, and there is a reference to Yath-ghatan and the Sar Trell wars in MT. Also, Taxilian could understand them fairly well. Maybe not a colony, but there were some... umm, what's the word... interactions.

I remember someone (Mosag i think) going on about a glorious army of the Tiste. Pffft. How the hell will they do that when they all basically hate each other? Edur>Andii, Liosan>Andii, Andii>Edur.... Well, the Liosan tolerate the Edur. But that's it, the rest is h8.

[Jorram]

@Ain't it just - what he (and I) meant to say was that the First Empire was founded on Seven Cities. It was not a colony, it was the heart and birthplace of this empire. Hence the UK reference.

And, back to the otataral issue, the First Empire's would-be-Soletaken only created the otataral fields on the north-eastern shore of the continent with their devastating Ritual. They didn't create the material itself, it is more ancient than that (supposedly).

[caladanbrood]

Yes, it seems pretty certain otataral is simply created as a balancing act when vast amounts of sorcery are unleashed. Doesn't it bleed from the sorcerous rent that the jade giants were coming through after the CG as well? (sorry for off-topic)

[Aptorian]

Damnit gone for a few days and you create a good thread with out me... bastards

Some things I picked up on.

First empire origin. 7C is most likely the birthplace of the empire (I don't recall any quotes to the contrary) It fits with Jacaraku(sp?) being to the west where the wars of the time of Dessimbelakis took place against Kallors empire. It also fits at least in the later era with the seven holies and the seven holy cities being placed here and there on the present map of 7C.

What you have to remember, is that 7C didn't look like it does now, a hundred thousand years ago. We see plenty of descriptions in memories and observations that some/much of 7C was seperated into islands or at least vastly different geographical configurations than they are today. On a sidenote I found that weird seeing as that must mean a big outbreak in the Jaghut Wars must have broken out in the past hundred thousand years, lowering the sealevel because of an iceage and we're not talking Gothos work neither.

About the O-island outside 7C. I thought the island was created by the continuing precision bombardment of Jadestatues. One is seen partially uncovered, another is mentioned found in a mind by the Malzans and many more are probably located there. 7C is the only place we've ever heard the statues are. Either the impact of these magical creations creates the Ottataral or some ascendant (perhaps the O-dragon?) has on prior arrivals been there to meet them with a big mountain of O-dust to be burried in.

There are mention of other Ottataral sites, are you sure one of these are not the creation of the 7C experiment?

About ascendants deaths wounding a warren. Why would an ascendants death wound a warren? Rake is just a champion. KG doesn't flow through his heart or anything. The spilling of ascendant blood is another matter, that is something dangerous. It attracts power. Personally, even though it isn't outright implied, I think something like 6 fat dragons bleeding out in a magical warren, might be a pretty dangerous thing. Their magical blood making holes in the fabric of the warren. The power weakening the fabric perhaps.

[Coco with marshmallows]

Aptorian;248881 said:

There are mention of other Ottataral sites, are you sure one of these are not the creation of the 7C experiment?

blood oil is the only other Otataral that is definitely known about, is it ever mentioned where the Teblor get it from?